00:00:00 Farmer suicide rate is three and a half times the rate of average America. 97% of American farmers suffer from depression. 00:00:09 67%. That's two thirds of American farmers report being severely depressed. It's a tough business. Uh, and it's a tough topic 00:00:19 'cause it's about mental health. And as much as we wanna talk about how strong we are, we also need to admit that there 00:00:24 is a support group out there. And we here at the Grainery take this very seriously. We here at Extreme Act, take it very seriously. 00:00:29 I've got guys that we're gonna be talking to in this episode of the Grainery about their support group 00:00:34 and what they do when they get depressed, who they turn to, and how having a peer group have been 00:00:38 so helpful for their mental health. That's what we're covering in this episode of the Greenery On a Farm. 00:00:45 The work's never really done. We're calling the day anyway because my friends from extreme ag are coming over. 00:00:51 You ready for a conversation with some real farmers about real issues? The best part? You are invited. 00:00:57 Pour yourself a drink, grab a snack. Most importantly, pull up a chair. Welcome to the greenery. Hey guys. 00:01:14 Alright. You heard the stats. They're not good. We know it. We've all have been in this business. Um, a farm man 00:01:21 that I knew his family five miles down the road ended his life. It doesn't have to be that way. 00:01:28 We do have some real bad numbers. We also have a group of people that work in this injury industry who are exceedingly 00:01:37 self-reliant, and sometimes that means they won't turn for help. One thing that I value about you guys in extreme 00:01:43 ag, you're pretty open. Oh, you joke and you razz one another, but you call each other when you're having a good time. 00:01:49 You share stuff with each other that probably a lot of the farmers don't because it's a pretty isolating job for most people. 00:01:57 Is this your support group? I would say yes to a certain, you know, yeah, it is to a certain level. 00:02:06 Um, my family's the other side of that support group, that's for sure. Um, I've taken phone calls, so I mean, the reason I, 00:02:14 I don't know how much I'm gonna say or not say in this, um, I've taken phone calls from the general public, other farmers 00:02:22 that have thought about that. Um, and, and I can be honest with you. Like things have gotten dark enough sometimes 00:02:29 that have made me thought the same things, you know? So It's tough. It's a tough topic. And you know, 00:02:38 I think it's an important one. I can't think of any more important one. It's kind of an isolating business, you know? 00:02:44 But you guys have access to one another. Your dads didn't granddads, didn't you get on the phone and call one another? 00:02:50 You call Chad and Matt. You guys call each other and say, I'm having a s****y day. Things are really bad. 00:02:56 Things are really looking kind of bleak over here. You ever have that call? How many times a day did you say? How many times or 00:03:03 How many, how many times per day, week, months. Ooh. Um, yeah, we, uh, yeah. This is, this is definitely tough, 00:03:11 but I think at, I think at ex at extreme ag, and that's kind what we're talking about right here. You know, we're talking about groups and, 00:03:18 and we say extreme ag, but I mean, you know, and we talk about these groups a lot. Yeah. Okay. And we talk about it in, in a lot of times, Hey, 00:03:26 get with the group with fertility, get with the group and share information. Okay. Farmers share information. 00:03:30 We're trying to bring that back around, you know, so you got your group of buddies. They don't have to be extreme ag it, it don't have 00:03:38 to be something like that labeled. But you got your group man. You kind of know, you sense when a buddy calls you, 00:03:44 calls you, calls you, you know, and you, you've called and they call, you call, they call. And then all of a sudden you don't hear 00:03:49 from 'em for two or three days. Yeah. Something's wrong. Yeah. You know, and, and they start going down that hole. 00:03:53 You don't know if they had a bank call a no. You don't know if they had a, you know, a tractor blow the motor up. 00:03:59 I mean, I really don't know how I'm gonna get the crop out. You don't, you don't know what's going on in their mind. 00:04:03 So, uh, it's, it's definitely, I saw, I spoke at an AG Bankers meeting. I've done that a number of times. 00:04:13 And they had a mental health person up there on stage talking also with a lender. And they talked about this very topic. 00:04:18 Obviously there's some big numbers. We all know everyone at this table can name multiple farmers that went through bankruptcy, foreclosures and whatever. 00:04:24 It's just, it's a nature of our business, which can be damn stressful. And they talked about that very thing the banker 00:04:30 and the mental health professional said, when we don't hear from 'em, we know that things are getting dark. 00:04:36 And that's where, you know, they don't wanna reach out for help and they start going into a real downward spiral. And that's the thing that I think is cool you guys. 00:04:45 Now you don't have to, you have a network and if you don't, we'll be your network. Right? Yeah, Yeah. Definitely. You 00:04:50 have to have a peer group. It doesn't matter if it's extreme ag or whatever. You just have a, have to have a peer group 00:04:56 that you can bounce something off of, you know, whether it's dark or whether it's not. I've taken them phone calls and I, 00:05:02 and I have made those phone calls. It ain't, it's, it's bad. Matt is doing this thing. 00:05:10 When we talk about a topic, he gets real contemplative. And I know it's because you're probably afraid you're gonna cry. 00:05:17 You're afraid you're going to do something. These guys have helped you. Yeah. Yeah. I've, I've, I've been that guy. 00:05:24 I, I would say that, that I'm almost as good of a counselor today against it, not suicide, but the depression. 00:05:32 I mean, I've, I've battled major depression several times in my life. Yeah. You know, and, and one of 'em was when my dad died. 00:05:38 And there, I'm with this farm and, and as a farmer, you said it earlier, you know, you, you may not be, but you feel like, 00:05:46 so you're set, you're up here on this. And I pedestals not the right word to use, but you're here and then you look down here and you've got all your kids 00:05:54 and all your wife and all your family and all your Employees. And let's don't forget to employees 00:05:59 that we are, that are family. Right. You know, and, and, and their, them families are depending on you. 00:06:05 And if you fail Because you're making them a living. That's right. They don't need another job. They got a job with you. 00:06:10 And if you fail, you screw up more than just your own life. You Feel like there's a man and a woman 00:06:14 and their two children that aren't gonna have a, a roof over There. I said, I can 00:06:18 even mentally handle being dry land. Yeah. You know, I was to the point where I couldn't mentally handle that. 00:06:22 I mean to, you know, I mean, it got rough like you're talking about. Yeah. There's been some dark time now. 00:06:27 Thank God that I never contemplated suicide. Yeah. But I can see where a guy would, I absolutely. I can see where it 00:06:34 Yeah. Ain't no judgment here, is it? No, because you, and, and everything is on you. If you work for, for Apple, you know, 00:06:40 you've got all these other people doing the same job. You're doing people above you, people below you, you, if you fail, the business continues. 00:06:47 And you're, when you're holding all the balls, then if you fail, they all drop. What happens if you're a multi, multi-generational 00:06:55 family farm and you're the guy losing And, and the pressure just keeps compounding. It's just like 00:07:00 A vice legacy is You, you take that vice and you start turning that vice and it just turns so slow. But you know what they say about 00:07:06 a hole in a bucket, don't you? It don't take the little hole in the bucket to drain that bucket. Yeah. 00:07:10 Yeah. The, uh, eighties, of course we talk about that. And I know there's younger people are watching this show and they're like, oh God, another 00:07:17 old guy talking about the eighties. But you know, I'm old enough to remember, and I was out there working when I was 10, 11, 12, uh, 00:07:24 feeding cattle, doing the work. And every night you come in and we heard about how bad things were. 00:07:28 And there were those cases where a fourth generation, we didn't come from nothing. Hell, we didn't have a lot 00:07:33 to lose the people of fourth generation. It got real bad on mental health. Some of those people didn't end their own life. 00:07:40 They hurt somebody else. I mean, just got shot. And you know, and that's a mental health thing, obviously, when you're gonna go and they 00:07:48 Got shot over to Kimba in Arkansas. Yeah, Yeah. You know, I mean, your temper. Yeah. 00:07:53 I was telling, I spoke to about a hundred salesmen from, uh, uh, Nutrien the other day. 00:07:58 And I said, I would, I would tell you probably this ain't the year to go run out there, jump the combine 00:08:04 and say, I need to know what seed you're planting, what chemicals you want next year. I said, A lot of these guys, including myself, 00:08:09 don't know if I'm getting a crop on next year. Then you come up there bombarding them, they're gonna be mad. 00:08:13 I said, do you think farmers are p****d off? Go try to talk to 'em today. Yeah. Don't, in this environment we're in, 00:08:20 is is aggravating this depression and suicide back to where it was. You know, I shared a post the other day 00:08:26 and I mean, it, it's real. And, and the thing about us is we're all tough guys, right? Mm-hmm. We don't need help. We can do all this on our own. 00:08:33 That's what we're saying. Your dad, your dad's a tough older man. Yeah. He, he gonna go ask for help. 00:08:38 No, I'm too, you know, I'm tough. We've gotta learn that we're not as tough as we think we are or that we need to be. 00:08:44 And of course, you know, without faith, I don't know what you would do anyway, but I'm just saying that it, it's a big deal. 00:08:51 There's less stigma attached than there has been historically. That's right. If Chad said, 00:08:57 you know, I'm in a really bad way. I'm, I'm really depressed. I'll tell you what, like, I, 00:09:01 I think I almost need to see somebody. We would say, ah, you damn bless. I mean, we wouldn't say because 00:09:06 20 years ago they would. Yeah. And maybe you were 20 years ago, maybe I would've 20 years ago, 00:09:11 but maybe that's our maturity, but also maybe it's an acceptance of a real thing. It's an isolating, it's a fairly insular business you guys 00:09:18 are in and you also have, uh, wear a lot of hats. There's a tremendous amount of stress, there's a lot of capital, uh, involved and money stresses everything. 00:09:26 Uh, and obviously not to mention the weather, et cetera. So, uh, but like I said, I think the bigger problem than all 00:09:32 that on farmer mental health is the idea that you're supposed to be self reli. The idea that you're so tough that nothing can bother you. 00:09:39 You know, if it's your shore that's injured, you might say, I'm gonna have to, I'm gonna have to treat this. 00:09:44 But you don't, with your, well, You'd be labeled as a whiner. You know, we grew up, if you were, 00:09:48 if you were complaining all the time, you know, when I was going through my worst part of my depression, that wasn't cool. 00:09:55 You know, I couldn't, there you have about five people in your life that you can really go to on something like that. 00:10:00 If you're lucky, you've got five, sometimes it's one or two. Yeah. It's gonna say most time it's one, 00:10:03 You may have 20 people that you associate with, but if you got five really good friends, you're a pretty lucky man. 00:10:09 And back then those five friends, you know, might not be like, oh, you're just flying and don't worry about it. 00:10:13 You'll be like, you know, we're, and, and, and so in today's world, you're right. It's, it's a little bit easier. 00:10:20 If I call temple, you know, and I said, temple, I'm going through some emotional stuff here. 00:10:24 I need your help. He'd be like, what do you need? You think you went, he's never been to my farm, but if I called him stressed out 00:10:31 and said, I'm depressed, I need you. He'd say, what time you want me to be there? Yeah. You know, So the peer group is very, very helpful. 00:10:38 It's made you guys better. What'd you do before this? Just didn't have it. No, I, I think about 00:10:46 We have those, have those five. We all have those friends. Yeah. But I mean, you know, just friends change. 00:10:51 But what about before, you know, as much as we all graph about cell phones and how we'd like to just, you know, right now we sitting 00:10:57 around here and all our phones are, you know, not on this table. And it's pretty awesome. You know, that all 00:11:01 of us sitting here talking, ain't nobody scrolling Facebook. You know, we just having conversation. 00:11:04 But what about your fathers who had to battle that every day and you sitting out there on a roll pole tractor. 00:11:11 Yeah. You know, and it's always going through your mind and you ain't sharing it with nobody. Well, 00:11:14 You had one landline at our farm, uh, that was in the kitchen. So sure as hell, dad didn't come in when family sitting at 00:11:21 dinner and call up the neighbor say, yeah, but they're had a bad day. I'm really depressed in front of her 00:11:25 Body. Well, how many, how much access did they have to the internet and, and groups and support groups yet they Didn't don't with time 00:11:35 or anything that, that ate up their time. That was off outside of their realm. Yeah, because they only had their realm. Yeah. 00:11:42 Pat, you know what I mean? We have other distractions. You know, we have vre, a distraction. You know, it's not a distraction, but you know what I mean. 00:11:49 Yeah. You know, we have other things. So else in your lap that distract us away from, from that they didn't have that. 00:11:54 And they also planned things much better than what we do because they had to plan on who they needed to call before, 00:12:01 before breakfast at lunchtime and at and at supper. Mm-hmm. They had to do that because it was the only time that they had, they had 00:12:09 to get back to a landline to get to a phone. Right. And they were scratching down on paper what needed to be done. 00:12:14 Now we just pick up the phone or text somebody. I need this, by the way, I needed it yesterday And here's a picture of why I need it. 00:12:20 Yeah. This is what's going on in my field. Here's a picture and you sending that to California to agro And I needed yesterday. Send. 00:12:27 Well, I'll send you an email on your phone. You're Talking about Drew somebody next, talking about communication. 00:12:31 What's the best thing that yet ever helped your mental health when you were in a bad way? I've got a story I actually told Will, uh, 00:12:38 when we were setting up the other night, and I'll share it, but I want you to go first. Best thing that ever helped you when you were in a bad way. 00:12:44 Best thing you did. Best person, best communication, best message. You got Anybody made 00:12:49 A phone call? God. Yeah. Yeah. Phone call To somebody that's been there and done that. Some people, well, I mean, they 00:12:56 don't even have to be in there and done that. It's that phone call to that, like you said, them, them 1, 2, 3 friends that you got that you can call 00:13:03 with whatever that, you know, it's a, it's no judgment. You ain't a pansy. Like it's, it is what it is. You know? I mean, that's, that's the best thing 00:13:12 you could get, you know? And As a friend on the other end, you need to be, we, and when I said I'm a better counselor now than I, than I am 00:13:20 was before, is a friend on the other end's. Gotta have enough. I'm not going to use the word I want to use, but enough toughness to tell you the truth. 00:13:28 Yeah. I was, you know, I've told Chad things before Temple that I I knew was gonna make 'em mad. Yeah. And they've done the same thing to me 00:13:34 because it just, if you're, if you, if you've got that person, they need to be free, free and open to be able to tell you, no, you're wrong. 00:13:41 He's told me I'm wrong several times. This wasn't agriculture stuff. It's, No, it's empathy. 00:13:46 We don't even talk about that. But it's empathy, but it's also of love, right? I mean, it's, it's, yeah. And it's, I've been there. 00:13:52 I understand. And I'm concerned about you. I'm also gonna be honest. And that's, yeah. I'll tell you what you want to hear. Yeah. 00:13:59 That's what's worked for you. It's tough topic. Uh, when You think, alright, good talk. 00:14:06 Top topic. We've all been there and you know, it's really specific just to farmers, mental health, mental health. 00:14:10 It's just, there's a, to amount more, well, we're just farmers. There's a tremend amount more factors here 00:14:15 that spike it, you know what I mean? It's not like there's a lot of people that have a bad day at the office. 00:14:18 There's a lot of people that have, uh, financial, The problem is they ain't signed no crop note. There's a bad, there's a difference in, you know, 00:14:25 where a guy has a bad day at the office. Like I said, he's got all these other co-employees that can pick that up. 00:14:31 If we have a bad day, it becomes a bad year and then it becomes a bad day for everybody that's associated with us. 00:14:37 Yeah. And that is the, the mental stress. I think that that sets a farmer aside. Of course I'm pro farmer, but, 00:14:44 but a guy in a regular job has got other people doing the same jobs. If, if if we fail, we fail. A lot of people. Yeah. 00:14:53 That, that's kind. Maybe I'm partial to our position or Well, I, I don't, it doesn't matter how it happens. 00:14:58 It's bad. I don't think you wanna sound where the farmer has like, oh, nobody else goes through this. There's 00:15:03 Lots of business owners. That's right. That's Rightm a small Business guy. And I've been through some 00:15:06 very big And you're there on your own. Like you, you know, And if I don't make the money, there ain't no money. 00:15:12 So I've had the bouts of depression. I've had the downturn. Uh, Mrs. Mason told me when I was in the depths 00:15:17 of hell at one point, and I said, I'm just gonna go and get a job. I said, I've been throwing, I've been throwing, 00:15:22 I've been throwing stuff against this wall for four years. I said, I've lost almost all of our net worth trying 00:15:29 to twist the wind out here. I said, I'm just gonna get you a job. And she said, don't take that job. 00:15:34 She said, if you take that job, your give up, your spirit will be crushed. She said, I don't wanna live with a Damian Mason 00:15:39 whose spirit is crushed. And it's like an anvil off my shoulders. And then the depression within a week, I was euphoric. 00:15:48 It's just Yeah. The darkness in Lipton, because I thought I was a failure. Yep. I offered four years old. And, and it's just 00:15:53 that one person, you know, we didn't say that. I mean, that one person can be your father or mother, that one person be your wife, your spouse. 00:15:59 I mean, it can be anybody. You know? Yeah. That, That brings you out of Yeah. Yeah. And you know, I mean, you gotta look too at the, 00:16:05 at the women that's behind us at home, you know, that's putting up with us every day when we come home. You know, just like what you mentioned. Yeah. 00:16:10 No, I never, A good man's a great woman. Yeah. Yeah. It's every topic. I appreciate you joining for it. I appreciate you joining us for it. You know what? 00:16:18 You heard the numbers. I'll state them again. Farmers are three and a half times more likely 00:16:23 to take their own life than the general public. That this is not a stat to be proud of. We are tough people. We are very much self-reliant. 00:16:30 We are rugged and we do work hard. But you know what, it's not a crime to go ahead and admit that you need some friends, you need some support, 00:16:35 and you need to admit that you're depressed. 97% of farmers report being depressed. Two thirds, 67% of farmers report being severely depressed. 00:16:43 It's a tough business. But you know what? You don't have to tough it out alone. You can join us for says this, grainery can join Extre ag. 00:16:49 More importantly, get the help you need mental health professionals. It's not a stigma. It's not, it's not a dark stain on you. 00:16:55 We want you to be here, but also want you to join us for stuff like this. Join us, the grainery great friends like Temple, Chad 00:17:01 and Matt and me and you. Thanks for being here for this very serious but uplifting. Good message. Episode of the greenery. 486 00:17:11.245 --> 00:17:14.405