00:00:00 GMOs, genetically modified organisms. That's what we're talking about, a decade or three later. That's right. Genetically engineered food crops came into 00:00:07 being in the 1990s, and we're still here. We're not dead. Is the fur over? That's what I'm talking about in 00:00:12 this episode of the Grain Reef. My friends Tip roads, Kelly Garrett and Gallon beer with agro liquid. 00:00:17 You ready for a conversation with some real farmers about real issues? And the best part, you are invited, 00:00:23 so pour yourself a drink, grab a snack. Most importantly, pull up a chair. Welcome to the greenery. Hey Guys. 00:00:40 All right guys. You heard the topic. Uh, by the way, grateful to have our friend Galen here. He's, uh, with Agri Liquid. 00:00:45 Agri Liquid, one of our business partners sponsoring this episode of The grainery. And we thought we have to have somebody on 00:00:49 from industry to talk about this. 1996, I think with the first year we used genetically engineered soybeans roundup ready, 00:00:56 as we called them back then. Now essentially almost all acres of corn, most acres of soybeans, uh, sugar beets. 00:01:02 We can go through alfalfa. A few others. Genetically engineered, I'm gonna say a decade ago is where the anti GMO Fre was at an absolute fever pitch, 00:01:11 maybe 2012 to 2015. And now it seems like it's subsided. Am I right? Galen is the furr, uh, over GMOs subsiding? 00:01:20 I I hear of it less for sure. Uh, I do think that, you know, over time there has been a little bit of education 00:01:27 that's taken place on the GMOs and that, uh, you know, I think the consumer has other things that they've shifted their focus to a little bit. 00:01:35 I do think that it is, as we go forward, though, I still think you're going to hear a lot about it, because just a ton of misperceptions out there. People 00:01:43 Are gonna say in Iowa, nobody's anti GMO, because that's out there where they all bought corn and soybeans. 00:01:48 I'm not sure that's accurate, but it's worse out in the East Coast. I'm not sure that's accurate. 00:01:52 I think it was a decade or so ago you could just walk through a suburban grocery store and say the word GMO and suburban housewives would start ducking under the 00:02:01 cooking, under the shells, and, and then somebody would want to yell at you about it. But They didn't even know what it was that, 00:02:06 'cause I mean, I've, I've seen, have you seen those interviews that are on, like social media for instance, or whatever? 00:02:12 Yeah, yeah. Like they'll interview some, you know, college kid that's like, oh, GMOs is killing everybody, blah blah. 00:02:19 Yeah. What does GMO stand for? And they're like, they look like a deer in the headlights. They don't even know what it means. 00:02:25 Dr. Oz went on one of his things, uh, on TV and explained to his audience that GMOs were being sprayed on all of our food. 00:02:35 And he won't tell him. That's like saying, I just sprayed heart surgery. GMO is a, is a technology. It's not a, it's not a chemical. 00:02:42 They're spraying GMOs on your food. I'm like, it's like saying I just sprayed, you know, uh, root canal surgery on it. 00:02:47 No, it didn't even make any sense. It was just a lynch. It doesn't make any sense. Both these guys are right. The general public doesn't understand what it is 00:02:54 because there's a lot of misperceptions. Yeah. I think that, uh, you know, I thi I think if guy, if the public knew everywhere GMOs had been used 00:03:03 and knew the benefits of it, and I think if there was a shortcoming, it's, we taught, we're always on the defensive about it. 00:03:09 Well, you can't prove that GMOs been bad for you, rather than the positive things that it's done. I think one of the first applications 00:03:16 of GMOs was in the making of insulin. Yeah. And I mean, you know, you don't hear people being unhappy about 00:03:22 That opposed to, opposed to insulin. Yeah. Right. Yeah. There's no opposition to insulin. And when you explain, which I've been brought on the carpet, 00:03:30 you know, around the suburbanites, when I live in Arizona half the year, what's the deal on these GMOs? 00:03:35 And I have to start with the basics. I, but it's easier just to say, well, the truth is it's reduced dependency on, uh, insecticides. 00:03:43 No, no, I heard it. They're spraying all kill it. So I always go with, uh, it's reduced trips across the field and it's reduced, uh, uh, insecticide use. 00:03:51 That's how I always was. It's, It's reduced our carbon footprint. Yeah. That's the easiest way to say it. 00:03:56 I mean, it's reduced our carbon footprint and, and that's nothing but a good thing. Now, is there bad sides to GMOs? 00:04:04 I, I, I don't know of any, I mean, they've improved the way that we farm. I mean, we're very, very efficient the way 00:04:11 that we farm nowadays. Um, is there a bad side to it? I mean, there's some guys out here and Kelly could be one of 'em. 00:04:17 Like, there is, there is conventional corns out there for, for instance, that seem like sometimes 00:04:23 they do a little bit better than some of the, the, the other branded ones. I'm not saying that that's right, wrong 00:04:29 or indifferent, I'm just saying I, it can go both ways, but for the most part it's, it's mainly changed our carbon footprint, which is better 00:04:40 for the overall environment. Do you think that if, if we're all in agreement that the fewer the, 00:04:46 the the fever pitch is subsided, does it go away? Maybe not. But also do, do GMOs go, you've made the point that you don't even use genetically 00:04:59 engineered seed like you once did. We, we still use some, but we're planting some, uh, we're, we're planting quite a bit of conventional corn. 00:05:05 We'll have, well, this year we'll have 25% conventional corn, and then there'll be varying degrees 00:05:12 of GMOs on the rest of the corn. We plant the best varieties that we can find, depending on what there are there. 00:05:18 For me, I'm not comfortable planting just conventional corn. And it isn't because I'm not 00:05:24 comfortable with conventional corn. I wanna plant a bigger array of numbers. So I want to have a bigger portfolio of seed 00:05:30 because you don't know, you don't know what seed is gonna be good what year You're Spreading the risk. I'm 00:05:35 spread. There you go. That's what I'm trying to say. Yeah. I'm spreading the risk. If I had a full array of conventional numbers, 00:05:41 I would be comfortable planting them all. But it, and the reason that the GMO doesn't yield as well is because that plant has to synthesize 00:05:49 that protein for that trait. It isn't because it's necessarily bad. Mm-hmm. And I, I will tell you, 00:05:55 I think the seed companies overcharge for 'em because they allow the farmer to hit the easy button. Mm-hmm. And I wanna make more money, 00:06:00 so I'm gonna go about the extra work that it takes to raise the conventional corn because it widens my margin a little bit. 00:06:07 Well, we're starting to find out somewhat, you know, you take some of these GMOs that like, you know, we, we have been able push the easy button with, you know, 00:06:14 let's just talk about a roundup ready trait. Yep. You know, for lack of better terms, it's very, it's been very easy for us to go out there 00:06:21 and make that one application. Now we've got all this other weed pressure that's come along and now it's become a problem. 00:06:28 And to be totally honest with you, like my roundup ready soybeans, I don't really, I try not to spray 00:06:35 glyphosate over the top because figure out, because it Doesn't work anymore Out that it's, it's tying up our nutrients. 00:06:39 I mean, you and I have had these discussions. A Yeah, we have times about, we have, you know, you're gonna, if you spray that, that on there, 00:06:45 you're gonna end up having to put these nutrients in with that package in order to get it to overcome it. 00:06:51 So there is those things out there. So you're fighting it back and forth. But I think, you know, we are kind 00:06:58 of swinging the other way a little bit where we're not treating, we have the trait and it's great. And it's a, it is a tool if we need it. 00:07:07 I, I think sometimes you plug one hole in the dam and another whole emerges, you know, and I think that's kinda what Temple's alluding to there is, 00:07:15 you know, you have this great tool that you use, but then you realize, hey, now we've got some nutrient issues to deal with 00:07:21 that may become as a result of that. One thing that you talk about, it allowed you to hit these button and you said 00:07:26 it's made us more efficient. There's one thing that, uh, Galen does a better job of than many people in the industry do. 00:07:31 And they always think about what's easy for us, what's good for us, what's easy for us, good for us. 00:07:34 But we are a consumer business. All businesses are, we work for other people's money. Yeah. You sell to the elevator, but the elevator sells it 00:07:41 to General Mills or whatever. The consumer could very easily make the argument, what's in it for me? 00:07:48 I heard on Dr. Oz that they're bad and it doesn't benefit me. Why would I want GMOs in my, 00:07:53 why would I want genetically engineered food? You can understand that argument. 'cause they're gonna say, what the hell did it do for me? 00:07:58 I, I can understand that argument, but I'm gonna back right back up to what I just said a minute ago. 00:08:03 It reduces our carbon footprint on the environment. Yeah. You're using, that's, you're 00:08:07 Going across the field. We're using even less inac aside whatever Price. Yeah. 00:08:11 If we didn't have, I don't know that motivates. I don't know that mo certainly the people are posting percent disagree. 00:08:15 The people that are, the people that are able to attend rallies to oppose GMOs are not concerned about 00:08:21 14 cents more at No. Those People that attend the rallies, but those people don't represent all consumers. 00:08:26 If you take some of the best, you were talking about my hamburger, things like that. Yes. If you take some of the best hamburger 00:08:32 and you put it at $8 and you show the health benefits and you just take the average hamburger and you put it there, those people are 00:08:38 gonna, they're price driven. Deland. Does this seem like Kelly is arguing with me and almost became physically and threatening their, 00:08:45 You want to say that it's not price driven, the consumer's price driven. If we didn't have roundup ready soybeans, for 00:08:50 Example, we in agriculture think price is 10 times more important than it is to the average affluent to the average upper, I'd say 00:08:58 to the average consumer and above. But when You say consumer, you're encompassing everybody. You're not just, you're not 00:09:03 Just talking about the people at the GMO rally. You're talking about everybody. I, I get it. GMOs have made food cheaper, but Yeah. 00:09:09 And, and you can talk about the environmental thing. The thing is that it has never sold us an environmental thing. 00:09:13 The average consumer believes GMOs equal bad for the environment, not GMOs equal better. Well, and I think, you know, 00:09:20 and this conversation comes up a lot is you get groups that, that may speak on behalf of a very narrow set of consumers. 00:09:28 We are blessed in the US to have the choice. If we wanna buy organic blueberries, for instance, or not organic, we can look at the price difference 00:09:35 and make that decision. You ask someone in a third world country that is hungry if they care if their corn in 00:09:44 that corn tortilla is GMO or not, they don't care. Yeah. They're just hungry for a corn country. 00:09:50 And, and, and that's the point is we have to be careful not to apply our own circumstances to everyone else's circumstances. 00:09:57 And to temple's point that he's made a couple times is, you know, there are a lot of positives with GMOs and maybe we don't count those enough, 00:10:06 but, uh, affordable food is a huge benefit of the GMOs. Exactly. Take, take some of what Kelly said and back up to what you said. 00:10:17 You know, if, if people actually had the education to understand what A GMO was, had the education to know what, you know, true conventional corn was 00:10:26 that you're gonna grow organically. If, if I told a guy, or, you know, let, let's say a matriarch of their family, 00:10:34 you know, she's all about, I wanna have the best, most nutritious food for my family for the right dollar. Take that, take that matriarch of the family. 00:10:44 If she knew how a guy grew organic, that he was spreading the manure on the field, and he went out there 00:10:51 and won spread manure, plowed the ground up bad for the environment, using Copper, using copper based products and actual chemistry, 00:10:59 and then all of a sudden versus What's the, another Copper acit, whatever. The, when you 00:11:03 Copper sulfate the most common, you start, Start accumulating copper in your soil that are almost at like, 00:11:08 like was this a mine? I mean, it gets a little, It's like, yeah. So it's a lot. It becomes toxic. 00:11:13 So you, you take that situation and they're, and they're paying for that food, but they believe that that is the most nutritious Right. 00:11:20 Um, blend because it was organic. Well, they really don't have the education because if we did it a different way 00:11:25 and we used, you know, the agri liquids program for instance, and we used your program and you take that corn and when you mill it down 00:11:33 and you look at the quality of the nutrition that's in the food products, it is very different. Mm-hmm. The nutrient Density. 00:11:40 Yeah. Yeah. It is very, very different. It's two, I mean, it's apples and oranges, man, but yet this food over here 00:11:48 that you believe is better for your family Yeah. Is nowhere near as nutritious. That's right. At twice the cost. 00:11:56 And that, and that is the hard thing to, to educate the consumer. And I don't know the easy way to do that. 00:12:01 Uh, to Temple's point, and Kelly and I have sidebar conversations about this quite frequently, is if you grew organically, number one, you need 00:12:08 to be near a manure source. And then guess what? You're going to use that same type of type of manure over 00:12:14 and over that's high in some nutrients and low in some, some. So whatever you consume, 00:12:20 if you're consuming watermelons produced on that acre, it's always gonna be high in the things the manure was high in and low in the things that it's not. 00:12:27 And so you think you're being nutritious. Yeah. Yeah. But you're really causing yourself some nutrient deficiencies. 00:12:33 The the latest thing to come up, and this is not, this shows you why GMOs are okay, in my opinion, a lot 00:12:38 of organic producers are using sludge from municipalities. Yeah. And there's the forever chemicals that are in 00:12:44 that sludge that go down the drain. And they don't talk about that. That that is something that's not promoted. 00:12:50 And then you see that coming up in, into those organic produce. Whereas, and the reason that the consumer goes there is 00:12:56 'cause they've been told the GMOs are bad. Mm-hmm. And you know, the, the messaging is wrong. Yeah. You have the people screaming about GMOs. Dr. 00:13:02 Oz was a good example. And, you know, on a, on a, uh, another episode we talked about what should the, uh, groups be doing for us? 00:13:09 Yeah. The commodity groups. The commodity groups should be educating the consumer Yeah. 00:13:13 What the GMOs have done. So Speaking of commodity groups and GMOs, this is one thing that I was actually, uh, 00:13:19 absolutely opposed to what happened. Mexico, the country biggest agricultural customer of the United States of America right now said last year, 00:13:28 we want corn, but we do not want it to be genetically engineered corn. And the National Corn Growers Association went and fought 00:13:34 and forced them to buy our GMO corn. Um, then they thought they won. I said, okay, well when I contractually and legally 00:13:43 and brow beat the hell outta you and force you mm-hmm. To take something that you didn't want. That'll work once. Yeah. And so that was a terribly bad move. 00:13:51 I, I do think agriculture has a problem w with no other industry wants to. Every other industry says the consumer's. Right. 00:13:59 Agriculture says, no, this is what we're gonna build. That's why, that's why I struggle with that. That's what you're gonna educate the 00:14:04 consumer, educate the consumer. Sounds like you know what, we're gonna do whatever we want. You're just stupid. And 00:14:09 so we'll just tell you why we're doing what we want. That's what Well, if you, but we need to de 00:14:12 but in the other breath, we need to defend ourselves. And when people are saying, you're spraying, you're spraying GMOs, as you said, that's complete fallacy. 00:14:19 Yeah. And so we also need to defend our ourself. If you don't like the word educate and say, no, that's not what's going on here. 00:14:25 That's not true. Maybe Mexico came because of this. Maybe Mexico came with that message because of the, some of the misinformation 00:14:32 and we need to give the correct information. Sure. And we also should probably sell our biggest agricultural customer what they actually 00:14:37 demand versus what we tell. I I agree a hundred percent with that. I agree a hundred percent 00:14:42 With that. What about the, the furor and the fervor that we're talking about that you and I both say, it's not like what it once was. 00:14:49 Does it eventually go away? We can, we kinda know. The consumers get really caught up in what the media tells 'em. 00:14:54 Right. And the media tells 'em what they tell 'em because it's good to get clicks or views or whatever. Acid rain was gonna kill all of us. Yeah. 00:15:01 If you're old enough, like us to remember acid rain was gonna make it so we couldn't ever grow crops. Oh my god. Acid rate. 00:15:08 Ask 40 consumers now to Yeah. Even if it even registers and they're like, oh God, maybe I don't know how we used to get free solver. 00:15:15 Yes, Yes it was. And thank you for that. We pulled that out. Now we can sell that to you, Tim. And Now I have to buy a product from him that 00:15:25 I used to get. I kind of miss the acid. There's, there's soil evidence that Galen beer stopped acid rain, 00:15:32 so he could sell you more salt One voice. And now if I could only have that strong voice against the GMO crowd, 00:15:39 Right. So does the anti GMO thing just continue to slide die slow death? Because I'm telling you, I don't see it. 00:15:45 And then even the marketing, you know what used to be, you still can buy non GMO walnuts and you're like, yeah, that's not even a thing. Those are 00:15:54 Okay. But I, I think you are bringing up a point that does dilute. I I think there's a point where a consumer goes, okay, 00:16:01 I don't know if I believe the whole GMI owe thing anymore because marketers have overused it. 00:16:07 There's non GMO water. Right. Or non GMO beer or whatever. And the guy that's getting ready to open a 00:16:13 beer does he really care? And I think when you see it so much that I think the consumer starts to say, oh, okay, 00:16:20 I don't know what's right and what's wrong about GMO and therefore that message can get a little bit, 00:16:25 They kind of become death to it. Mm-hmm. Yes. By the way, the, uh, the dilution, if I were selling a food, I, and it, 00:16:31 and it sold me more products. This is where we in ag also, we get mad and say, well, look at what they're doing. 00:16:35 They're putting no GMOs and there's no such thing. And I've been guilty of saying, uh, they're telling you no GMOs 00:16:40 and this orange juice, there's no such thing as a genetical engineer in orange. But the thing is, we also need to think like a marketer 00:16:47 and what the consumer is, if it sells me 4% more product, and I don't have to be discounting it to put 00:16:54 that on there, I'm gonna put it on there. Well, I think sometimes I think we hurt ourself too. Right. Um, 'cause you know, we keep talking about GMOs 00:17:01 and we keep going back, but we, but in the ag industry, we, we tend to, technology is going so far outta control and we're racing and racing and racing. 00:17:10 Mm-hmm. And we continue to stack more on top of, more on top of more, on top of more. I mean, some of our, some of our, you know, some 00:17:17 of the varieties of corn or beans, whatever, you know what I mean? It's multiply, stacked with more and 00:17:22 Mores. It's, so I, I think we're, we are also creating our own problem sometimes. We don't know how to help ourselves. 00:17:30 We're afraid not to buy a genetic because it's an insurance policy at some point. That's right. And then, and then it, we're kind 00:17:36 of perpetuating the problem a little bit because we're not really deciding what we need at times. Yeah, 00:17:41 Of course. Like I said, it made things easier. And if it's an extra few bucks, then you just say do it. But also we're probably overutilized overusing unnecessarily 00:17:49 overusing the technology. Yeah. That's, that's what I'm getting at. That's why I think, you know, sometimes we, 00:17:55 we are definitely overdoing it and it's gonna be hard to fight back from that because, you know what I mean? 00:18:00 Like, if you have a stacked variety that has four or five different traits and two of those traits in there are 00:18:07 an insurance policy, like you said. Yeah. You know, I, well, you know, 'cause you might not know, you know, 00:18:12 what happens if I did have it? We don't have the choice sometimes to say, Hey, I only need two of them traits. 00:18:18 Yeah. I don't need four of those traits. I've actually, we already know that there's the organic or whatever, and you're looking at, there's a price premium 00:18:25 for selling conventional, or my guy down the road sells a different type of, what is it? 00:18:29 Uh, a different type of soybean than a, a genetically engineered soybean. So the market has actually already worked. 00:18:34 If you allow, you know, usually if you're an economics person, if you allow the market to work it, it works. Yeah. And I, I think that, uh, you know, that's one thing 00:18:43 that we have to look at a little bit is, you know, we remember the one time we had root corn rootworm damage. And so we're Yeah. Insurance goes in the bag every time. 00:18:53 Whereas we need to stop and think, is it necessary that we have it? Was that an outlier event? 00:18:58 I will, I do remember growing up, uh, seeing, you know, seeing, we always had a corn rootworm in our area and that was devastating. 00:19:06 Uh, you know, you just didn't have treatments for it initially. But I do remember when they came with a chem chemical 00:19:11 to treat it, and I don't recall the name of it today, and it's probably better that I don't for the purposes of this show, but I remember seeing pheasants running out 00:19:19 of the fields, you know, looking like they were drunk. Well, is it better now that that genetic is built into that plant and you don't have to harm? 00:19:26 Absolutely. So, so see that's the thing is we, we forget the trade offs. Sometimes there are some positive trade 00:19:32 offs that come outta that. One of the things that we, and and I, you know, I've read and I've been to the meetings, there's a certain company 00:19:37 that obviously was marched against, uh, uh, uh, and great masses, um, that end up getting bought by a European company. 00:19:45 And they're the ones that, let's face it, we're the first out of the gate with the genetically engineered stuff. 00:19:51 They did a terrible job of marketing because they started telling everybody that, uh, first off, they were so proud of they had the proprietary product. 00:20:00 And they also were I think, almost arrogant in their idea that somehow this wouldn't create the waves that it did. 00:20:07 And then it should have just gone with an environmental message. Yeah. An environmental message would've been just, Hey, 00:20:12 look at this because of this technology. Anything else? If, remember we, we've got customers buying electric hybrid cars believing 00:20:19 that they've changed the weather in, uh, Uganda. Why didn't anybody think, oh, let's market the environmental message for GMOs 00:20:26 and all of a sudden we're embraced instead of retaliated against. I think, I think there's still a lot, you know, for us, 00:20:32 Steve, Lauren as an industry, like we have to own some of these things. And is there a way that, you know, if I, if I have something 00:20:40 that can help a, you know, help a crop overcome a stress, then I tend to buy that genetic. 00:20:46 What I'm not focusing on at that point, is there something I could have done proactively to help it overcome it? 00:20:51 Is there, you know, a better fertility program, whatever that is, that helps that plant better defend itself. 00:20:58 And then the next question becomes, let's just say I could crack the coat on that. And I tell a farmer, if you do all these things, 00:21:05 you can get your crop to be healthy and not need all these other inputs, you know, chemical inputs. 00:21:11 What if that costs him 80 bucks and he can solve the problem for $10 A fungicide might be an example. 00:21:17 What if we could make something nutritionally, nutritionally able to overcome that? But, and That's a great point, but the problem is is you know, 00:21:24 15 years ago when this started to become a hot topic, did we know that? Well, I don't know if we still know it for sure. That's, 00:21:31 You know, that's what I know. I don't know that that we, I mean, yeah, we're just getting to the point now that we understand what the plant needs, 00:21:38 when it needs it, and how it can overcome a lot of these things. That's right. That, you know, 00:21:43 GMOs have kind of fixed for us. We didn't know these things. I know Years ago the technology, technology has improved so much. 00:21:50 I, I just, I think that first off, the fact that once it's gone on this long, um, it, and obviously nobody's dead. 00:21:57 So there's that. And then also the consumer has fatigue. Remember we were supposed to be worried about 00:22:03 MSG in our food. I don't even know what that is. I still know what it is, but there was supposed to be MSG in our food. 00:22:09 It's a food preservative. Yeah. Okay. So there was that, and then there's acid. I mean, you just go on every single thing 00:22:14 that we got hyped up and told it was gonna kill us and it never did. And so that's where I think 00:22:17 that is bio kinda wonder what's next? What's after GMOs? What, where, what happens next? What this, when the, 00:22:24 when just when the fervor's dying down on this one, come with the next thing that then the media's gonna tell the 00:22:29 consumer, oh, they're poison you out there in those fields in Iowa. I tell you what I think is next, what I think is next is, 00:22:35 you know, you take, you know, GMOs have changed the way that, that we farm. Yep. And you still have some conventional 00:22:42 farmers that are still doing it. They have a niche market. You know, there's a lot of areas that have non GMO bean market or Yep. 00:22:48 You know, I don't Is there a non GMO corn market around you? I don't even know A little bit, yes. Okay. 00:22:53 So there is, there is some niche market out there That the market works if they us. And then you have the organic farming thing. 00:22:59 And I, I think, I feel like the organic thing has been played out. I shouldn't say it's been played out, 00:23:05 but I feel like it's been played out somewhat. Um, it, there's not as much value in that because there's been some, some false things 00:23:12 that have happened within that. And you're paying a premium for a non-nutritious product. I think the next thing is, 00:23:19 is when you get into regenerative agriculture, like the real, the real base of regenerative agriculture, yeah. 00:23:25 You can grow a crop that you're doing a hundred percent the right thing all the time. You're improving the soil, you're reducing your, 00:23:32 your carbon footprint on the environment. And when you combine the environmental standpoint and the nutritious standpoint 00:23:39 and you tie 'em all together, I think that that is what's coming in the future. I think that's the future of agriculture. 00:23:44 I I, I agree with what temple says. I used to believe, you know, maybe just a year ago, I believe that in five years everything that we ate 00:23:52 and everything that we bought would have a CI score on the package. I now don't know that that's gonna be true 00:23:57 For the person that doesn't know what we're talking about. Carbon Intensity Score is 00:24:00 Carbon intensity. I used to think there'd be a carbon intensity score on the package of everything we ate and everything we wore. 00:24:06 I now don't know that that's true. I now think that what will be on the score is a, pardon me, what will be on the package is a nutrient density score, 00:24:14 which is exactly what he talked about. That's the next thing that's coming because we're trying to eat nutrients, dense food. 00:24:19 And you now, you talk about food is health, food is medicine. You Might be getting ahead of another episode. 00:24:23 We're gonna do so anyway, we'll just stick with the genetically modified situation because you're right. 00:24:27 Anyway, um, I also, we got a few things genetically engineered. We thought it was gonna be a big yield booster 00:24:37 and it really wasn't. I mean, you can get the same yield with non It. You, 00:24:42 you have to, it's like fungicide though. Fungicide isn't a big yield maker. Fungicide is a yield Protector. Protector, 00:24:48 Protector. And that's what GMOs are. Yeah. So they're a yield protector. So we think the fervor is dying down a little bit. 00:24:53 We, the idea that we needed to have so much quantity, obviously Galen hears me talk about this all the time. Oh, if we don't have GMOs, 00:24:59 we'll never bail a feed the world. Well, we've got 40% of our corn crop is going to the gas tank. So we've got more than, we've more than 00:25:05 covered the productive part of it. So I, I wonder if maybe did they die slow death or does, or do they just kind of, they, I don't think 00:25:13 that every acre goes GMO in the future, I think let, even less I could see five years from now, less acres are devoted to planted 00:25:19 to genetically engineered crops. Yeah. I I mean I think I agree with you there that I, I mean we're finding better workarounds. 00:25:25 We are finding out some things that help us manage around that and some of the genetics 00:25:30 or pricing themselves out of the market. So that helps us. Well I think the thing that, you know, has to continue has forced to learn what the tools are 00:25:39 that help us not need the GMO traits. And the other part of that is, uh, we were talking about growing organically 00:25:47 and it just kind of popped into my head that if you had, uh, something organically grown in an infertile soil, 00:25:53 how would a consumer look at walking up to buy a orange that said non nutrient orange, they like non GMO, but how would you like to buy a non nutrient orange? 00:26:03 So, you know, these are the things we have to work toward is how do we, how do we monetize the, 00:26:09 and the things we know are the right things to do. Right now it feels like consumers don't wanna reward us for CI scores No. 00:26:17 And other things. But if we can figure out how to add that value to the consumer, then we can make 'em work. Usually it's the companies that are 00:26:24 after us to get better at monetizing stuff. Remember the John non GMO verified and all that? That was not AG people. 00:26:30 That was marketers that came up with that, right? Yeah. And it worked. So what's really interesting to me is the fervor started about 10 or so years ago, 00:26:37 but we had been using them since the nineties. You talk about a consumer that was late to the protest. We, we heard nothing about it 00:26:44 for the first 10 or 20 years Yeah. Of GMO uh, utilization. It's just, it was, it was an interesting thing that took 00:26:50 that long for there to, for there to be this controversy. Oh no. Anyway, we're talking about GMO, I'm sorry. Yes. 00:26:56 Do you feel like the the, the GMO controversy has slowed down? Yes. 'cause I feel like it's like really backed 00:27:03 off over the last Yeah. Some things slow down. The, the zenith of the high watermark of being opposed to genetically engineered was about the time Dr. 00:27:11 Ooz still had a popular show. Here's question like, you know, business with agriculture, what do you attribute that it's going the other way? 00:27:17 Consumer fatigue. Yeah. It can only handle, I agree. It can only handle being uproared over so many things. Covid might have killed the GMO opposition. 00:27:27 You might Exactly Right. Yeah. Or the term just got so commoditized that, that people just said Okay. 00:27:32 I'm, I'm tired of even worrying about it anymore. Yeah. Alright. We're talking about GMOs at 10 or 20 or 30 years 'cause it's been out since 1996. 00:27:40 In, in massive amounts. And I should say, and, uh, you know what, uh, we have discussions like this all the time right here at the 00:27:46 Grainery and that's why we're glad you came along. We're also glad that our friends from Agri Liquid joined us. You'll know about Agri liquid Galand beers with Agri Liquid. 00:27:52 Got a wonderful group of people there from St. John's, Michigan. If you all learn more about their products, we're talking about fertility products 00:27:57 so you can spoon feed your crops and absolutely get a big bang for your buck, which of course matters when farm 00:28:01 economics are where they are right now. Where do they learn more about your company? Aquid.com. Aquid.com. He's Galen Beer. 00:28:07 He's Temple Rhodes and Kelly Garrett with Extreme Ag. I don't think we disagreed that much. You did frighten me a little bit when 00:28:12 you start pounding the table. But anyway, moving around that. So next time, I'm Damien Mason, come Atman Green. 00:28:16 Re thanks for being here. You know, I'll pull up a chair the next time. You know, it's always gonna be a great discussion. Cheers. 00:28:21 Alright. You didn't really scare me a little bit. I actually don't get intimidated that much, Man. You gotta 00:28:27 about it. 00:28:28.455 --> 00:28:30.095