00:00 We're talking about the pace of change, and we're talking about the pace of change with the next generation. 00:04 That's right. I've got next stream ag, as I call it, or young guns as they might be also referred to. That's right. The offspring of the guys 00:12 that started extreme ag. That's what we're talking about in this episode of Extreme Ag. Cutting the curve. 00:17 Welcome to extreme Ag Cutting the Curve podcast, where real farmers share real insights and real results to help you improve your farming operation. 00:27 This episode is brought to you by TIVA Corp, providing farmers with the most technologically advanced products and innovative ideas to meet their quest 00:35 for higher yields, top quality and maximum profit. Visit tiva corporation.com. And now here's your host, Damien Mason. 00:44 Hey there. Welcome to another fantastic episode of Extreme Acts Cutting the Curve. I've got a great one for you today 00:48 'cause we're talking next gen. We're talking next stream ag. We're talking about the young guns. 00:52 We are got, our guests are the young guns. I've got Danielle Matthews slash Venable. She's, uh, the daughter of Kevin Matthews. 01:00 I've got, uh, Caleb Coutts. That's Mark Coutts son, who is third generation with Tiva Corporation. 01:06 Kelly Garrett's son, uh, Vern as he sometimes is known, or Connor Garrett. And I've got Jackson Henderson coming 01:12 to us from Henderson Farms. Uh, that's Chad's kid. And I've got lane miles. You see him around. Uh, he's, uh, one of the elder 01:19 of the offspring. He works with, uh, Matt Miles. So I sometimes say they're the Miles brothers, but they're actually not brothers. 01:26 Uh, and then I've got Alexander Rhodes slash Evans. Uh, he goes by both sometimes. Anyway, that's Temple Rhodes Kid coming to us from Maryland. 01:33 We're talking about the pace of change. Um, you know, I'd like to think I'm keeping up, but as you said before we hit the record button, 01:41 I referenced Jersey Shore and you all pointed out, oh God, that's more than a decade ago, Damien. 01:45 Like, we were in junior high. We were like in grade school, and you thought that was current. 01:50 Which brings me to the point, while I'm certainly not as current on pop culture, anybody that's listening to this, that's got, you know, beyond high school, 01:58 you must admit things change rapidly. And it's not that you set out to be antiquated or whatnot, but things happen quickly. 02:07 And generally as you get older, a year, 2, 3, 4 goes along and you think you're still keeping up. 02:14 Maybe you're not. So, let's see, your generation came up with phones in your hand. 02:20 I'm talking about smartphones. Uh, your generation doesn't even know what landlines are, and I'm not being mean, it's just happened. 02:26 The internet is completely, uh, ubiquitous. Everybody has it. Even in rural areas like where you guys work and live. 02:32 And so, you know, Google, social media, et cetera. The pace of change, um, when I talk about it from my perspective, 02:39 it sounds like an old person. When you talk about it, do you think you're starting to sound like an old person? I'm gonna go to Danielle first. You're what, 26? 7 26. 02:47 You're 26 years old. Do you start, do you think that you're starting to realize, oh gosh, I'm not keeping up like I might have when I was 18? 02:56 Not really at this point. I mean, when I first got a phone, it was a slide phone, so it's not like it was an iPhone. 03:03 So I feel like I stay on top of technology. When I looked at, uh, the preparation lane did before we hit record, he still uses pen and paper like I do. 03:13 And he says he gets that from his old man. Are you the last person that Miles Farms that's gonna write stuff down on Notebook piece of paper? 03:20 Yeah. Uh, Danielle still does it. Why? What do you think? I would assume so. Uh, I mean, my kids are six 03:29 and four, so I mean, I'm assuming whenever they get up, iPads may not even be a thing anymore. Uh, so I, I kind of switch in between both. 03:38 I mean, I may take notes on iPad then, but most of 'em I'm probably pen and paper. What do you see from the corporate standpoint, Caleb, you, 03:45 you're, uh, you're, you know, you're assuming the role. You've been there for nine years, uh, at Teva Corporation. Uh, when you look around pace of change, what do you think 03:53 that you are perceiving that your old man is not? And he's, and he's not old. I mean, he's not even 60 years old yet, right? 04:00 No, no. Uh, I mean, it's, uh, things are moving quicker than they used to. It's, uh, we get guys our age that are starting 04:09 to come in and take over the farm. I mean, they're a lot more open to, you know, I, I think that we come, you know, on the farm, 04:17 mechanical changes come really quick, really easy. Uh, we all like brand new toy. Uh, something shiny to look at, 04:24 and we pull across the ground and see how it works. Uh, chemical, we almost have to be, but nutrition, uh, has always been a little slower. 04:32 And we're starting to see that with groups like extreme ag, you know, that that curve is, uh, is getting a little lower. 04:39 People are starting to be more open to new ideas, especially people our age, you know, like, because we don't have to, uh, you know, 04:47 we have the world at our fingertips. We can see, we can, we can get information almost instantaneously. 04:53 So all this new stuff is, uh, not as, as mysterious as it used to be. It's not all snake oil anymore 04:58 because there's some, some backing to it. Let's go around the corn here. Keep it up around the horn. All right, Vern, uh, what he just said is, 05:06 it is your observation, you've been backing the farm for about two and a half years, I think now, um, uh, technology gets adopted quicker on pace 05:14 of change around a farm. Uh, equipment is the one that, uh, farmers geek out about and they'll stay real modern about that. 05:21 But then there's other stuff that's a laggard when it comes to pace of, uh, adoption. 05:27 Yeah. When it comes to more practice based or more intensive management type things, I think the growth curve is a lot slower that, um, slow 05:37 for like cover crops were on less than 2% of acres in Iowa when I went into college. And now I think they'll be close to 10%. Right. 05:44 Just as the weird factor lowers off and you have some early adopters, suddenly that curve starts to grow a lot faster. 05:51 When you look at Jackson Henderson, I'm gonna go to you next. What's your old man good about when he 05:56 talks about adopting change? What's he good at and what do you look at and say, good god, dad, uh, you know, what, uh, you know, 06:03 1980 called, they Want You Back. Which, which thing do you think he's really remarkable about adopting? 06:08 Which thing do you think he's still back in the eighties? Well, like with like chemicals 06:13 and way he does stuff as far as a planner. Like, I think he's, he's jumping ahead of stages, you know, jumping ahead of people that's never thought about stuff. 06:22 'cause you can't tell 'em you ain't gonna do something, you know, he is like, if he, he's gonna make it work. I tell him all the time, I was like, your mind changes. 06:28 Like the wind blows. Mm-Hmm. But then when it comes to, when we get in the field start harvesting stuff, we're back to the old practice 06:34 where it's like we're more my grandfather's behind the machines digging with his fingers, you know, trying to figure out how much they're throwing out 06:41 and stuff instead of trusting the machines and trusting what we're doing, you know? So I say that's where he, he's ahead on the planning stage, 06:48 but he slacks behind on the harvesting stage And on products. You think he's fine on products, 06:53 but then on technology, what about technology? I think he still has a flip phone. He's got a race car that'll go, uh, 180 miles an hour 07:00 and a quarter mile or an eighth of a mile. But he also, uh, I think still, um, I think he still uses dial up internet service. 07:08 Yeah. Oh yeah. He still, he, he, he struggles with all that. He's got me kind of doing all the, 07:14 all the techno technology side. 'cause like I said, me and him, neither one of us real good with even getting on these Zoom meetings, you know. 07:22 All right. So, uh, going over to Alexander Alexander, uh, pace of change, what do you're, uh, you've been around there 07:29 for, since you were a kid and then you've been more actively involved now? Uh, in the farming operation for what the last few? 07:37 Uh, I mean, no, I never really never really left. I went to college and that was pretty much all online, just through Covid and all that stuff my first year. 07:45 And then I never really left. 'cause I'd have to come home every weekend, dad be calling, I need your help. 07:50 I need your help. So I'd have to come home every weekend anyway, so, I mean, I didn't really necessarily leave. 07:55 Um, but yeah. All right. So Alexander, when you look at your situation at the farm, uh, temple, obviously we, we joke 08:03 that he's one of the Send It twins with Chad and, and all that. What do you then see in terms of pace of change 08:08 where you're like, yeah, temple does a really good job on this, but I think if when I start making decisions, 08:14 I'm going to be better, what are you, what are you quicker at adopting and seeing in way of necessary, 08:20 necessary changes on the farming operation, do you think? I Don't know. That's, that's a 08:25 tricky one. 'cause I mean, he really is, you know, we try to stay on top of stuff, whether that's technology 08:30 or it's, I guess, well, no, I guess we slack a little bit, I guess, on equipment. Um, but the whole technology thing, 08:36 we really try to stay on that. Um, just try to stay on top of it, whether that be tracking, you know, what we put out there, what we're going 08:44 to put out there, making sure we're putting right rate out, all that good stuff. Um, but I mean, the mechanical stuff is probably 08:51 what we slack on a little bit. Not necessarily working on stuff, but upgrading equipment and stuff like that. 08:56 'cause we're kind of like, you know, if it works and we have all the new stuff, technology on old equipment, you know, why trade it in and get 09:03 and get new stuff when it works perfectly fine. Got it. Alright. I think that's What about, as an, as an industry, what does an industry, 09:10 anybody that wants to go go first as an industry, where do you, like, you just were at far or Commodity Classic and that's the latest and the greatest. 09:17 And, and, you know, national Farm Machinery Show, we go all these places. Vern's nodding his heads. We'll start off with Vern. 09:22 When I look at the industry, I still see things that I look at. And I think mostly where the pace 09:28 of change is not rapid enough is in mindset and outlook. That's what I look at. 09:33 And, but, but you guys might see things differently. Um, where is it not changing? Where is AG not keeping up? Yeah, I'd agree with you definitely that the mindset has 09:45 to change before anything else is gonna, like, you can, you can get the new latest and greatest planner every year, but if you don't change your mindset, you're not gonna make 09:54 that many changes that actually translate to practices on your farm. Um, when, 10:03 when it come our local area, right? Most guys still don't have a liquid system on their planter. Most guys are doing the same thing they were doing 10:10 40 plus years ago. I think as the average age of that, farmer climbs, a lot of it is sticking to the same, 10:16 that if you're not on the innovative cutting edge, you're not really moving a lot. And I'd expect as that land starts to turn over 10:23 to hand into younger hands, that that's gonna change in our lifetime. Yeah, I, I wondered about that. 10:29 So, and that is somewhere between practice and equipment. And again, you know, farm people love equipment. 10:35 Uh, God knows they, they, they can't get enough of it, you know, go to the Farm Progress Show and they're geeking out over 1200 bushel grain cards 10:42 and kicking the tires that are, you know, taller than me. But if you geek out over equipment, the Farm Progress show 10:48 and then go home and still your planter is still set up like it was in 1988, you're not only not keeping up with the pace 10:55 of change, you're, you're dragging it down. Uh, it, it does make you wonder, doesn't it? And so I, I see some of that as well. 11:01 But again, is that adoption, um, is it adoption hesitancy or is it just mindset? I, yeah, I, I, yeah, you're right. 11:15 I think it's mindset of that getting, looking and seeing something new and saying, I'm gonna actually practice that. 11:22 I'm gonna integrate that into my operation and change the way I've been doing things for so long. That's a huge step for a lot of people that legs behind. 11:30 Got it. Danielle, uh, we, we let off with you on the first question. So here we are. The second question, 11:35 and you're going to second, um, I say that mindset is the, is the one that is, and and you know what? 11:43 I don't think it's specific to ag. Most people hate change, but I think it's more entrenched in ag than it is certainly 11:49 in some other industries. I got some head nods on that. What do you think? So I think the mindset definitely is part of it. 11:56 But one thing where I think some of us are more fortunate is our dads are ones that are doing things that are new 12:04 and they're like trying different things. But when it comes to technology side, they're kind of hesitant because like Lane and I are used to pen 12:12 and paper, they trust that notebook not to crash. Yeah. And it's getting them to trust that this technology's gonna work. 12:20 So I think it's more of, some of 'em are like, you have to prove it to 'em. Like prove that it's gonna work. 12:26 Like show 'em the ROI in the end, that there's gonna be a profit behind investing in the technology. 12:33 'cause some of this technology comes with a big price tag, right? And they're not gonna wanna spend the money if they don't 12:39 think they're gonna make that money back by using it. Yeah. And it may not be proven. And which is the old thing about, you know, uh, 12:46 where do you wanna be on the adoption curve? If you're, if you're excited to try something, but it, it doesn't work, then you're out the money. 12:52 All right. Lane, you've been around, uh, a bit. Where do you think, not just not not talking about your place, you've been 12:59 around the industry and you go and see other people's farming operations, you go to the trade shows, where's agriculture think it's really 13:06 keeping up and you as a younger set of eyes say, good god, these people really, really need to get it in gear 13:13 because we're not, uh, we're not as forward, forward moving as we really think we're, So basically there's three main quotes that farmers use. 13:24 It's the way my daddy did it. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. And then my dad's fa favorite is, 13:31 it ain't ever gonna work here. That's, that's, uh, that's kind of everybody's mindset is, you know, everything I'm doing now is working. 13:41 But ag in general, the technology's there. I don't think ag as an industry is behind. I, I mean, you, you think of, we got autonomous tractors, 13:52 we got drones, you know, yada yada, yada. I can name off 10 different ones. It's not the industry, it's the actual farmers that, 14:00 that are probably a step or maybe two behind some of 'em, three or four. As far as like going with extreme ag, it's kind 14:09 of the cool thing about being here is we get to try different, you know, people wanting this stuff trial, whether or not the technology's in the, the 14:21 fertilizer we use, the chemistry, we use the equipment, whatever. We get to try that stuff. 14:26 We get to trial it and say, okay, well, it really does work. Sometimes it takes a little bit of a push for us maybe 14:32 to get our dads to do it. Um, I mean, just take Operation Center. I mean, that's been around for what, 10 years now? 14:40 As far as Operation Center. Before that was Apex. My dad went to a meeting, I'm, it's gonna be somewhere around 10 or 12 years ago, 14:47 whenever they said, well, these tractors are gonna text you whenever they are broke down. 14:52 Or a solution pump goes out. And dad's like, well, that ain't never gonna happen here. That's one of my favorite things that they do. 14:58 I always know somebody runs out of a chemical outta their sprayer, and you get the solution pumps empty. 15:03 Uh, so nowadays I've actually gotten, dad downloaded it on his phone, on his computer. I mean, if he's sitting at the office on the, 15:12 at the grain bin, he's watching combines running up and down the field knowing how many acres an hour they're getting. 15:17 Uh, so I, and, and we're talking about stuff that I'm getting dad to do here in the last two 15:22 or three years that technology's 10 years old. Hmm. One wild thing is, like, you, you buy something like an iPhone. 15:31 You buy an iPhone now in a year, you got an old phone. Mm-Hmm. So, technology's steadily, steadily changing. And ag, like I said, ag industry's there. 15:42 We just gotta adapt it, but we've also gotta be a be able to afford to adapt it too. Yeah. And we're gonna be talking about technology in 15:50 another episode, so I don't wanna make this episode all about the technology. Um, I think it's more about, like I said, 15:55 I like the idea about practices and mindsets. I think that's where we're gonna go with it. So, uh, I got some head nodding going on. 16:00 So whoever wants to take this next somewhere between Alexander or Caleb or Jackson, I don't care. Whichever one of you that is, uh, chomping at the bit to, 16:08 to address this from the mindset shift. Um, I'm gonna throw out there the one that I've seen Caleb's in the, uh, uh, 16:18 you're not traditional in that you're not, you're normal, uh, a hundred pound to urea or atrazine or glyphosate 16:25 or whatever your product line. But you've also been around for three generations, um, adoption of using products like yours. 16:33 It's better now than it ever was. Better now than it was 30 years ago. Do you still see, you still see is the mindset thing, 16:39 or is it, it certainly by this point shouldn't be a lack of pro provability? 16:42 You've been going since 79? Yeah, I, I think it's a, it's definitely a mindset. I mean, it's gotten easier in just in the time I've been 16:50 here in the last six years. Uh, I mean, when my dad and my grandpa started doing this, uh, people looked at us like we'd fallen off tar turnip wagon. 16:58 They had no clue, you know, what fulvic acid was or why you want to use a sugar or, you know, my dad likes to talk all the time. 17:06 When they started, there were maybe three biological companies in, you know, in the whole country. 17:11 Now there's 300, 500, you know, biological companies out there, you know, well, It's 12, it's 1200 now. 17:16 But yeah, I've been a, there's been an absolute funnel of money pouring into that space last couple years. 1200 biological companies right now. 17:24 I mean, yeah. So point, point proven. I mean, when they, you know, when we started this, uh, we were definitely, uh, the odd, odd man out. 17:33 And even still, yeah, they've become more popular. You know, uh, there are a lot more, uh, humic phobic products. 17:40 There are a lot more sugar products in the market than there were when I went off to college, when I, 17:45 even since I've come back. Um, and so we're seeing, it's, it's definitely easier. Uh, people have heard about 'em now, 17:52 but the mindset is still, uh, is still the biggest hurdle. Trying to get guys to understand, uh, 17:59 that we're looking at a systems approach. You know, we're, we're very used to this, uh, this idea of, well, this, this product will, uh, you know, 18:06 give you a five 10 bushel increase, you know, but if we added every five, 10 bushel increase together, we'd be making, you know, 500 18:12 bushel corn at every one of us. Yeah. And it's, it's about a system and about how we're gonna, you know, 18:18 make all these synergies work together, how we're gonna work all these efficiencies together. And so that's, uh, that's a little bit of a challenge still, 18:26 uh, to understand that you're not looking at just one individual silver bullet product. You're, you're looking at how all your products, 18:34 everything works together and then how it works on your ground. 'cause it's not gonna work. I mean, we got 18:40 five different farms represented here, and they're all gonna, all, all the products are gonna work different on each farm 18:45 because it's different ground, different climates, different equipment, you know. So it, you know, the fact that farming is now able 18:52 to be much more, uh, individualistic that we can target and do these very specific systems is, is the biggest hurdle. 18:59 I mean, I'd say it's our biggest, uh, our biggest competition is mindset and information. Alexander Jackson, you're the last two to go on this. 19:09 What is your strength about change? Is, do you, are you, are you better at change than you think the 19:14 generations came before you? Or do you think that it's only because you're youthful? Are you gonna be, are you gonna be more, uh, accepting of, 19:21 uh, the new thing? Or are you just saying that now? 'cause you're young? It's, it's a fair question. Jackson. 19:30 Uh, I, I don't know. Like, you, you think it gets better. I'm Not talking about your dad. I'm talking about 19:35 anybody generation before you. Are you gonna be, yeah, I mean, that's what, that's what I'm saying. Like, you think, you think it'd be better 19:41 and stuff, the new technology stuff that's better, you know, as we're coming up. But then, like, you gotta think, like, you gotta stay true 19:47 to your old mindsets too, about what they did, what got them there, you know, and what we learned and what works and what don't work. 19:54 You know? So it's, it takes a, it takes either, it takes them letting you go and try new stuff to bring the new technology 20:01 and the new mindset in, but then also keeping the old mindset of what got you here and what works and what don't work. 20:07 You know, Alexander, uh, I want ask you a question. So, uh, Verne talked about, he sees stuff that, and he compare it to 40 years ago, he had 20:16 to look that up in a textbook. He was alive 40 years ago when he said, I got people out here in Iowa. 20:20 They're still, their planters are still set up. They don't have a liquid fertility, they don't have a starter, 20:25 they don't have two by two, whatever. That's what he is talking about. Am I right, Vern? Is that what you were kind of talking about? That's 20:29 Right. Yes, sir. Alright. Um, pace of change. Clearly those people are, are slow and low and late adopters. 20:37 Um, are you gonna be farming those kind of people's farm ground? Talk about pace of change. 20:44 Is change gonna come to where those people go outta business or they just exit because all 20:49 of a sudden margins are too skinny, they haven't really kept up anyhow, five years from now. Is somebody like, you gonna be farming 20:56 somebody like that's land? Yeah, I mean that's a, that's a good point. I don't necessarily think it's gonna 21:02 drive 'em out of business. Um, 'cause obviously they've made it, you know, they've made it this far. Um, 21:07 But do they just quit? They, they just quit 'cause they don't want to keep up? Well, I mean, that could, that could be it too. 21:12 But I mean, we got some big guys around us that are telling, right? I mean, a good amount of acres 21:16 and I mean, they've been doing the same thing for years, you know, and I'll be the first one 21:20 to tell you my grandfather, same way, you know, I'll spread a couple ton of chicken litter and let her go plant it. 21:25 You know, he don't understand or not, not that he doesn't understand, but he's so comfortable with the way he did stuff 21:30 that he don't want to put, you know, snake oil or whatever you wanna call it on. And he don't want to do this 21:34 and spoonfeed it and this and that. He wants to, you know, do it all at one click and, and just let it go. 21:40 So I think that that mindset that they're so comfortable with, I think that's, that's what's hard to, you know, 21:45 get them to change that. That's, that's the biggest part. All right. We'll toss out the economics then, 21:50 because I'm big on the numbers. The numbers are gonna get skinny. We are just coming off of 21, 22, and 23. 21:55 Those years are the three highest record farm income years in the history of USDA record keeping. 22:03 And we're gonna be down 25% this year from last year is what the USDA is saying right now. 40% off of 2022. 22:10 If there's not a time to force change, you're all 40% of, of your income. I think it's pretty much time that 22:17 by God I'm gonna start trying on kind of new stuff. Is that what's gonna happen? Your predictions go around the horn Jackson going back 22:23 with you, you see you just finished, you're still warmed up. Is that what's gonna happen? Are we gonna see people rapidly 22:29 adopting change now out of necessity, the old thing, necessity's of other invention? Or do you think they stick with 22:34 what they've always done then all of a sudden? I think if they do, they'll squeezed. You're, you're, you prediction. 22:40 I think it's depends on how brave they are. But I think, I think when it gets like this, it's like, let, let's, let's go with the stuff we know that works 22:49 and let's maybe wait and hope that it goes up next year. You know, let's, let's just, let's just stay right here 22:55 and stay comfortable and make it through this year and then decide what we're gonna do next year. Danielle's nodding her head. So she agrees with that. 23:02 I, I am you you agree that that's what everybody just stays with. They just, they just get in their, uh, 23:07 they just get in their lane and do what they know to do and, and try to hunker down bunker mentality? 23:13 Yeah, I mean, from meetings that I've been at this year and one's talking about prices, what we're seeing, what's coming up for the whole season. 23:21 And for us, our weather outlook too. Most people are talking about doing what they know is gonna work 23:27 and if they're gonna try something new, it's gonna be on an even smaller scale than they normally would. 23:32 They're just not gonna go across all their acres and do something new. They're gonna do it in a small area 23:38 because the prices, they just haven't been there. Yeah. So, uh, I've been around long enough to tell you that, um, ag income, uh, 23:48 downturns don't usually last one season. They last 5, 10, 25 years. So is this going to, is this is a downturn going 23:58 to stall us? Is it going to stop our evolution? Who's got an answer for that? Vern was, Vern was contemplating, I saw he looked up and he, 24:08 and he was thinking either that or there's something in, or the ceiling fan is, is is spinning outta control anyway. 24:13 What's gonna happen? Yeah, I would definitely agree with those two that once that income turns down, that's gonna be scary 24:21 to make any large investments. Like, I don't think there's gonna be a lot of liquid system put on planters this 24:26 year that didn't already have them. But the biggest year for plant food, which is the, uh, liquid byproduct, we custom apply on a lot of acres, 24:34 was the year coming out of Covid when supply chain issues drove the crop cost of fertility up? 24:39 Yeah. We had that alternative source that we were pricing cheaper based on the analysis, just because it's tough to get farmers to adopt that practice. 24:48 And that was our biggest year when they could cut that cost there and put that same amount of fertility out. Yeah. That, that was when we finally had to, we got, 24:57 went away from knocking on doors trying to get rid of the stuff that we had people coming to us and we, we used all of it for the first time. Yeah. 25:03 So, so there's a good, there's a good example where because of an economic downturn, necessity's mother invention. 25:08 So what's gonna change Alexander or uh, uh, lane, what do you think? What's going? I, I think it's gonna be a good thing. 25:14 I think that when, you know, uh, when things get a little skinnier, you get a little, you get a little hungrier, you get a little smarter, 25:22 you get a little bit more, uh, you know, your fight, your fight, your fight comes out, right? I or your flight, which means they might exit the business. 25:29 So that's the question we're gonna see. Uh, I think we're gonna see old timers exiting the business that probably should have two 25:36 years ago when things were better. They're gonna take a haircut on their land and also on their machinery 25:41 because they should have gotten out when they getting was good. But most farmers usually stay in the game about 25:45 three years longer than they should. But either way, I think the ones that stay, that stay around, if you, if you stay hungry, I think 25:52 that you're gonna probably see, I I'm, I'm an optimist. I think we're gonna see a bunch of adoption of new, uh, methods out of the economics. 26:04 I agree. Um, I think, and, and I, I guess I, I more or less agree with everybody, but I do think in, in times like this, like you said, Damien, you, 26:15 you can't stop trying, you can't take step back just because it's a, it's a bad year now, like Danielle said, take those things, take that money that you were going 26:26 to designate towards, say, research in the field, shrink that, but don't quit trying. 26:34 The minute you quit trying is the minute you take a step back. Uh, I mean, like I said, we, we found in these, 26:40 in these last three years, I mean, how many, how many people on here have found a product or, or something that has helped boost what we've already done? 26:49 Well, if we skip a year of that, or just say, like you said, Damien, if we, if it's five years, 10 years, 15, 26:55 but we keep skipping that year of research, then we're, we're just doing nothing but spinning our wheels. Alexander are, are you, uh, are, are you going to be the, 27:07 are you gonna be the agent of change in your neighborhood that says, you know what, I've got, I'm, I'm not scared 27:13 and, uh, I'm ready to roll. Is this, is this, is this gonna be a good thing for somebody of your age? 27:18 Uh, I mean, yes and no. I think, you know, A downturn I'm talking about in agriculture, is that a good thing for somebody your age 27:24 because you can roll with it better than somebody else? Or is it better for the old person that just, uh, you know, is ridden through a lot of storms before? 27:32 Yeah, I mean, you know, back to that, yes and no. I feel like, you know, the younger, younger guys are probably gonna be, oh, 27:37 we need to get this and this and this. And then the older guys, you know, you know, we, we grew 200 something plus bushel corn with, you know, 27:43 this little bit amount. You know, I think this year's gonna be nice because we'll be able to, you know, step, take a, you know, 27:49 slow down a little bit, realize what these plants need, and put on exactly what they need and don't, you know, overdo it. 27:56 Um, we're at least us, we're, we're definitely not gonna put as much out, you know, out front. 28:01 Um, we're probably gonna try to spoonfeed it, you know, throughout the season. Um, just keep an eye on the plants 28:06 and just, you know, you know, address it as it comes. Um, so I think that's a big thing. Caleb does a downturn in agricultural, uh, 28:14 a farm gate income. Is that a good thing for change adoption from your perspective? Or does it, uh, 28:21 put people in a hunker down bunker mentality? I think that you're gonna see both. I think you're gonna see guys like, 28:27 uh, those that are, you know, The people on this call that are younger are going to be dumb and naive enough to try something experimental. 28:34 And their grandparents are gonna say, I wanna do that when things are down. Is that what you're saying? 28:39 I more or less, I mean, I think you're gonna see progressive people, people that are on that, uh, you know, that trend of wanting 28:45 to try new, they're gonna continue to use this year to push efficiency and see, you know, like Alexander was talking, 28:52 what really works, what's gonna happen? But, uh, the people that we're not gonna, uh, we're already struggling to try something new 28:59 for at least this first year, they're gonna wanna hunker down. They're gonna wanna, Hey, let's go back 29:05 to the way we've always done it. Yeah, let's make sure that we get by. But as prices, you know, if, if, if prices don't rally, uh, 29:13 more sooner or later, you're gonna have to be inventive. You know, you're gonna have to try something new 29:17 because the years are gonna get leaner. And the only way that you're gonna do that is through efficiency, which is all this, you know, what, 29:23 what all this progressive, uh, farming, Well, there could al there could be a couple things. You could, you could try, you could, 29:28 maybe a new specialty crop. There might be an opportunity for that. Or it could be as Vern's point, uh, uh, crop inputs that are 29:36 used to be fringe, uh, yeah, like the plant food or whatever that all of a sudden, um, are an economic saving and also soil enhancement. 29:44 There could be some other things besides just pure efficiency, which usually means, uh, more with less. I think you could also look at some di differentiation. 29:53 Yeah, you'll, I mean, you'll see some things I'm sure that we'll see guys start to, uh, try to take more advantage. 29:58 Things like carbon credits, that kind of stuff. Maybe some alternative ways to make money on what they're already doing. Uh, but I 30:05 Think that perfect segue, by the way, Caleb, we've got an option for them here at EXT Extreme Ag where they can get into soil health, uh, 30:10 health soil health initiative and, and make extra money. Thank you. I didn't even ask you for that, by the way. 30:14 He's with Tiva in case we didn't already tell you. They're a sponsoring these special episodes. This is like a special four part series 30:21 with next stream ag, the young guns. I'm gonna go now into, uh, rapid fire questions. Okay. Try to answer in one sentence or less. All right guys. Okay. 30:31 Uh, Jackson, I, I like throwing this to you first because you're like, the ones like, oh crap, he called on me first. 30:37 Um, what's next? When we talk about pace of change, what's coming that you think you see that maybe somebody, 30:43 my generation doesn't, 'cause you're a little closer to it. You're, you're a little more the 30:47 front, you know, young, whatever. What's next? Man, that's hard. Alright, I'll, I'll come back to you. 30:54 Who's got one? Yeah. Lane. Lane. What's next? You took two pages of notes preparing for this. What's next page 31:00 Of change Coming to your farm, coming to the industry, coming to North America? What's, what's, what's gonna change like that, 31:07 that maybe we're not seeing? I think that as far as change, we're gonna see things, you know, like take something like 31:18 CA people that in, in the next three to five years, people that are not using a product, say like CA, that in a, 31:25 in a wide drop situation to stabilize nitrogen, finding ways to save that dollar you're actually putting out. 31:32 Got it. Okay. So you think it's gonna come in, um, uh, bringing in a more differentiated product mix or things that maybe didn't happen before and 31:41 because we end up actually saving money. So you think the economic downturn and what's coming next paces are cha adoption is gonna 31:47 happen on alternative products? I think that's a good, your investment. That's a good guess. It's a good, it's a good place. 31:52 If I was betting, I bet that also, especially when you got the biologicals that frankly there's way too many of 'em 31:57 to really even DD you know, to figure out. All right, um, Danielle leaned up, which must mean she's ready to go. 32:03 What's next? So for pace of change, I would think the biggest thing that's common is having to track more of our practices 32:13 that we're doing using the technology that's there. Using different resources to go into the sustainability piece Yeah. 32:22 Of ag. I think we're moving more into that. Okay. And I think you're right because I, I I believe there's going to be 32:29 more push environmental, I think future farm bills to be participating in USDA programs, uh, crop insurance, you're gonna have to do that. 32:38 So I think that's the one that you better be ready. 'cause that change I think is gonna come quick. We've already got a little bit of environmental tie. 32:44 I think it's going to exponentially ramp up. That's, that's probably where you're going with that. Yeah. Yep. Jackson, are you ready? 32:52 We gave you, we gave you two breaks. I'm coming back. All right. I come back to you next after Vern, we're going To the next person. 32:57 All right. Vern, what's next? Uh, I think I'd tie their two answers together, right? Environmental regulations, alternative products. 33:06 I think like one of the areas we're focused on with extreme ag is how can we tie those two together If we have a better 33:12 understanding of the biological system, the natural system, how we, how can we still push high yield while 33:18 doing it? Regeneratively. Got it. All right. That's what's next. Alexander, what's next? 33:24 Uh, I think the big, the biggest thing is, is gonna be, um, like Danielle said, the mapping, you know, keeping track of what you did this year, um, 33:32 course like you said is the first hard yield. We've had prices, you know, are skyrocketing. Um, I think this is gonna be the one that, you know, 33:40 realize everybody, this, this little thing that we did, this is what's gonna make all the difference. Or, you know, this little thing, it, 33:47 it brought our inputs down, but it, it's bigger. ROI, you know, um, definitely big Thing. I think that's 33:54 probably, so you're all talking, you went technology lane went product, uh, alternative product. 34:00 Uh, Danielle went technology. You guys are tying it together. You're going within mapping what you're doing and at the pace of change on, 34:07 I guess really documentation, record keeping. Jackson, where are you going with what's next? Doesn't have to be anything related to 34:12 what they just said. What's next? No, I think, I think technology and like products. Like making stuff go. Making stuff talk. 34:19 Be more efficient, be faster. Say adding, putting less stuff in. Go further. You know, especially for people like us, 34:25 we don't have many people working with us, so stuff that speeds, speeds stuff up. But still does it, does it as efficient. 34:32 Got it. Kayla, what's next? I think we've seen, uh, farming go through the mechanical era of innovation 34:39 and then the chemical era. And I think we're entering the biological era. So to kind of bounce off what everyone else has said, 34:44 you know, I think we're gonna see products that wanna work, uh, more in an, a natural system, uh, that are gonna push, 34:53 you know, we're understanding how the soil is working more than we ever have, uh, and making sure that it's all balanced 34:58 and working the way it needs to. And then the product package, whether that be, uh, nutrition, chemical, uh, you know, 35:06 full ic, sugar, all that kind of stuff. I think we're gonna see all that kind of stuff, you know, be the next phase we enter here. 35:12 Got it. All right. Now we're gonna ask another question. Rapid fire. I wanna strengthen, 35:15 I wanna weakness when it comes to adopting new, because we've already talked about where the industry is not, uh, as advanced as it should be. 35:23 We've talked about the generational aspect of it. Uh, you're all young, you're all smart, you're all seeing stuff. 35:30 What's a strength and what's a weakness when it comes to, uh, change? It could be anything. How you address it, how you, 35:36 you know, whatever the thing is. Okay. Who wants to go first? Pace of change. Danielle's always been my lead 35:42 off, so I'm not, I'll go to her. I'm gonna let her think on that for a second. Lane, you had two pages of notes, strength and weakness. 35:47 When it comes to change, what's your strength and what's your weakness? Personally? I'm just curious. 'cause by the way, 35:53 to get better, you've always gotta know what you're good at and what's you're not so good at. 35:56 Personally, I would say strength for me is basically anything technological, new. I'm pretty well easy, can adapt to it fairly quick. 36:06 Uh, weakness, I would say agronomy. I mean, I, I still struggle agronomy wise on some different things. 36:15 I mean, I took a picture this, this winter of Mr. Mark on a whiteboard and base saturation. So, And what's interesting is there's gonna be somebody say, 36:23 well, what's agronomy gotta do with change? I can tell you, they always pick on me about me talking about being FFA soil analysis back in 1980s. 36:30 How we look at soil, what we know about soil, the biome, the, the, the, you know, the fungus to bacteria mix. 36:38 That's a hell of a new frontier compared to what it was just 20, 30 years ago. So ag agronomy is changing. All right. 36:44 What's your strength and what's your weakness, Alexander? Strength and weakness when it comes to pace of change? 36:47 You and your farm. You, how you use, how you go about agriculture? Uh, strengths. So strengths probably, um, back 36:57 to like I said, mapping, um, you know, taking that, taking that minute to just type in what you're doing, you know, 37:02 into the laptop, into a computer. You know, really tracking what you're doing so that way, you know, for the future, what you've done, um, you know, 37:13 in, in the field or, or whatever you're doing. Um, 'cause there's a lot of people, you know, they just want to go, go, go, go, go. 37:18 But they don't take a second to, you know, realize what they're doing. Got it. Um, and the weakness, uh, I don't know, um, 37:26 probably disease diseases and stuff like that. Um, realizing what's going on, uh, within the field and, and, you know, neighboring fields too. 37:35 Um, just trying to stay ahead of it, you know? Is there anything as, as it relates to pace of change, any weaknesses as it relates to pace of change? 37:44 You think you're good, you can adopt, you can address your, your good. You're, you're fine. You can adjust. 37:49 You're going to, you're going to, your versatility will work out. You got no problem with any new changes thrown at you. 37:57 I mean, I don't know if I'd say that. I dunno. I say that just, I mean, it's just, I don't know. I don't know. Good. Next. Next. 38:11 All right. All right. Caleb, you're laughing. Uh, that's, we're supposed to make this fun. You know what, it's, it's, it's, 38:16 it's interesting when you gotta look at yourself and then say, okay, change, and then what I might, what's my 38:22 strength and what's my weakness? Personally, I think I'm pretty good at managing a, a moving marketplace. 38:30 Um, my weakness is, I think honestly my weakness is adopting a change in the other, in the people. Um, you know, managing, managing that. 38:41 That's where I, uh, you know, I, I think I'm a little bit there. So what's your thought? You, you employ 38:46 people, you run a business. Is your strength, uh, are you better at handling the change with, in the new marketplace than your old man is? 38:53 Uh, my dad's pretty on top of that stuff. I think, uh, I think where I am, uh, we're, we're on top of as a team here. 39:01 Me personally, you know, where the, uh, where the nutrition's moving, what the new practices are, what the guys are, you know, uh, 39:08 what's pushing the next yield. Yeah. I think that, uh, dad and I share the same weakness. We've run lean 39:15 and mean here at Tiva for a really, really long time. I mean, for the first eight years I was here, I mean, uh, all you guys did business with us. 39:24 It was me and dad running every bit of that right through the, through the warehouse. And so the biggest adjustment, our weaknesses, uh, 39:30 getting people in here to help, like you said, managing people. Uh, we've done it so long on our own that as we're getting 39:36 to that point, we gotta have some people. And as, uh, some of you guys have taken some deliveries, may know you've seen some new faces, uh, bring 39:42 that stuff down, you know, and that's just, um, it's, it's hard not doing it yourself after having done it for so long, 39:48 but I mean, to be able to serve the customer, right. To be able to serve you guys the way you need to. It's what we're gonna have to do. 39:54 And so we're, we're we're learning Strength and weakness. Who, who, who hasn't gone yet? Uh, Vern hasn't gone yet. 40:00 Danielle hasn't gone yet. Jackson, I can't remember. Did you go or not go on this one? All right. Strength and weakness as it relates to change. 40:08 Danielle, what do you got? All right. So I have to agree with Lane. I feel like I can kind of pick up the technology 40:14 side pretty easy. Yep. But my weakness when it comes to the change is having the patience to explain it a million times. 40:24 And I don't mean like, sometimes it's like just simple questions, but when you're in the thick of it and like you're running a planner 40:32 and you have 5 million things going on, and you're trying to make sure you don't mess up and you have somebody calling 40:38 because their iPad's not working or something's not loading on the computer. It's just like being able to like step back and be patient 40:47 and explain it without just being like, I'll call you back later. Just, yeah. Which is interesting. 40:52 'cause one would say, well, what's that have to do with change? Well, is, if you're going through a lot of adjustments 40:58 and adoption, then somebody's gotta manage that. And then patience means you've gotta manage it for yourself and for the people around you. 41:06 And that's the weakness. Yeah. That's, that's, that's, that's the most astute answer so far today. Actually. It made me think about myself right there 41:14 because of sometimes my lack of patience. Jackson, you got anything? Strengths and weaknesses, you can go ahead and admit it. 41:19 You don't have any weaknesses. That's basically what Alexander told us. Yeah. I don't know, man. It's absolute, I'm so amazing. 41:23 Everything. I don't have any weaknesses. What do you got? I would say I'm, I would say my weaknesses is like, kind 41:29 of like al's, since we are so shorthanded and stuff and it, we don't got a lot of us is be like the the go go, go, go, go without being patient 41:38 and making sure you're doing it right, just because we're trying to get stuff done. But I would say the strength part would be, I, like most 41:45 of 'em said it would be the technology. Keeping stuff easy, efficient, making it work better, keeping everything going. 41:51 We're gonna be talking about technology, another one of these special next stream Ag Young gun episodes. So, uh, be tuned in for that. 41:58 Verne Go last, uh, they call you Verne because the thought, even when you were a kid, you were like an old man. 42:05 When you think about old men, they don't normally do well to adopting the, uh, adapting to change. 42:10 And here you are on an episode as our closing, our closing, uh, talker about change of all things. 42:17 But you actually, uh, you, you, you do a pretty good, you do a pretty good job of, uh, being at the forefront of, uh, new, new adoption. 42:27 Yeah, well, I would say one of my strengths is that I, I just, I love reading about that stuff, that cutting edge innovation, the new practices, seeing 42:34 what we can adopt, brainstorming different trials and all those things that, that's one of my strengths is that I love, I love reading about that. 42:42 I love researching that. I, that's what I do in my spare time, is listen to podcasts like this. Uh, weaknesses is that when I actually get into the field, 42:50 like Alexander said it, um, everybody just wants to go, go, go. I want to go, go, go. I don't wanna wait for that. 42:57 And, you know, that's becoming more important for us, that data that you need to wait for that technology to be right. 43:01 But I, I don't wanna stop once we're actually out in there. I want to go. 43:05 Got it. All right. We went through the strengths and weakness. We talked about what's next. We talked about the 43:10 generational differences. We talked about pace of change, how it is speeding up. We talked about what farm income might do to new adoption. 43:16 We talked about the future. Got a little look at it from these guys right here and gals. We got the next dream ag folks here, the young guns. 43:23 This is the next generation of the people that created extreme ag and brought to you. So that's what we're doing here. It's a four-part series. 43:30 Maybe we'll even do more of 'em. We wanted to do an experiment 'cause we wanna make sure that you are paying attention to 43:36 what those in their twenties are looking out. Or I guess in Caleb's case, early thirties are looking out and seeing when they look at the future of our industry, 43:43 the world's most important industry. Uh, till next time, that's Danielle Connor slash sometimes known as Vern, Caleb Jackson, 43:51 lane, and Alexander. I'm not gonna say Alexander the Great. I'll just say Alexander with no 43:55 weaknesses because he is not quite great. He's just Alexander with no weaknesses. Try. I try to be, I try to 44:00 Be. Anyway, until next time, thanks for being here for this awesome new and, uh, a new series of, uh, extreme ag cutting the curve with next extreme ag. 44:07 Until next time, I'm Damien Mace. That's a wrap for this episode of Cutting the Curve. Make sure to check out Extreme Ag Farm 44:14 for more great content to help you squeeze more profit out of your farming operation.