Singulation, Population & Soybean Planter Type — What’s the Right Answer?

This is exclusive content for our paying members. You know, what we want to make sure that if you are paying to be a member of extreme AG you get certain things that everybody else doesn't get things that we think really are worth money. And what you're about to hear today is worth money. We're talking about singulation. We're talking about soybean population. We're talking about data and trial results that Kevin Matthews did for seven years. He studied the right population the right spacing and how you can then maximize your yield. We're not judging we're telling you what the data tells us and what our experience tells us Matt Swanson Western, Illinois Farm operators. The one that actually brought this topic up about two months ago. He sends out a question to the extreme AG text feed and starts talking about singulation and I of course intervene said wait a minute. What the hell is singulation? I don't know a singulation is never heard of it's like this is when you like when you when you you like some daytime TV problem. I can't get a date. I'm singulated. Anyway, he's gonna tell us about singulation and we're gonna talk about row spacing population and maximizing yield based on the seed population and spacing in the field on soybeans. Swanson What singulation? Yeah, so simulation is is simply is are the plants separated that you have one plant and it's individual space, I guess. So are they properly spaced and they are the seeds by themselves like you don't have two seeds together. Okay, what why did you bring that up? Why was it the I didn't know if it was something that you were doing Desiring or trying to avoid? So I guess the question I asked was how important is it in soybeans and it was driving at an equipment question. Right? So we have Some cover crops that we're putting in we're looking at putting in weed and other small grains that require a drill. Or we think they require a drill anyway, and we needed to or wanted a second planner for soybeans. So the thought process I was asking was hey, can we use this drill you think efficiently or properly to plant soybeans with and Kevin's response as it has been in the past is you can but I wouldn't essentially and so we decided to go a little further into that topic. Okay. And so now we are furthering furthering ourselves into that topic and it moves into soybean population and spacing and Kevin says I've done seven years of research on this before we get into that. Let's talk a little history seems like when I was a kid you went out there and you had soybeans on 30 inch rows. They might have been 36 before that. I don't know and I know that then before we had 1986 came along before we had GMO soybeans before we had Roundup Ready soybeans. We had things like pipe Wicks where there would be a big old Wick across the front because with 30 inch Rose, you get all that space you got volunteer corn you got Lambs quarter you got Ragweed is Terr. They have kids like me go out there and walk soybean Fields because you couldn't keep and then they said hey, you know, what if we started drilling them and this is like 1980s. What if we started drilling these on seven and a half inch rows maybe then we'll crowd out the weeds. And so I kind of seen this certainly not with your degree of involvement, but I've seen this go from wide rows to seven half inch rows now, we're pretty well. It looks like in my part of the world settled on 15 inch rows. Certainly the weed pressure is not a reason to do the big population anymore Kevin because we have better herbicides, but then that's an issue because now we have glyphosate tolerant herbicides. This population keep weeds out deserve a right answer you go. well The biggest thing is you got to look at what works in your environment, you know, when I will start not farming, you know, I started with 30 acres and I had a had a drill and I had a 30 inch planner. So I you know, I planted my soybeans with a drill I drilled them and I started out I was doing pound sprayer while I learned real quick like number one if you got to use a grill it needs to be calibrated. And okay. So how do we calibrate that drill? Well, simple math is what we've done we would take a tape measure and measure the circumference of the tire and we'd put a mark where we started a long paint mark on the rim and then we'd measure 10 foot and we put a short paint Mark there and usually at half turn it a couple, you know two revolutions to get to that point and on the size of that drive tire. So we done that and then we had actually count the seed on that set on a half inch Rose in it. We counted how many we had and then we converted that to population for acre. So we we really picked up a few extra bushels where they're drill doing that versus just trying to go by pounds because you know Matt and I both experience, you know, it's you get a five thousand seat count soybean or you get a 3000 seed count. So we mean and even though you're it's a pound but you got a whole lot less seed in that pound when you go to 3000 so that part is important. So then we are on 30 inch corn. we go to 20 inch corn or 20 inch corn and So we said well, you know, we farm and more Acres we got more to do and we knew we needed to get to the soybeans planted early so we get good growth. Keep those weeds out because yeah, that was the theory. I mean I was on the road quick. I did everything you talked about and so you definitely want to clean field you don't do that. But when we did the 20 inch beans I was doing pretty good. I thought when my drill soybeans and we just calibrating the drills news doing a great job. He's in that 40 50 bushel range and we thought that was good, but then it was hard, you know, we never could average over 50 on the whole Farm. We put 20 inch beans out there and we got looking and we'd run strips with plant with a planter and the drill in the same field. We had a 30 foot air drill. We had a 20 foot. 20 inch planner candy actually and over a seven-year period we ended up with just a solid nearly a eight Bush will yield increase on the planner the planner never did we have a situation where the drill without yield the planter except? And a small field where we had a lot of wildlife damage. Seemed like the if you hit a dry spell when those soybeans was little it the deer would get in that row on that 20 inch planter and they'd go down and just mow it right off just kept it clean, but the drill. Once you got a little rain and they started growing a little more it's not the drilled beans would recover you get a little better yield there. So that was that's one instance that you got to look at. So if you got a lot of small Fields, you may need to think about that day. You just say then on small Fields drill always out yielded planter. Not only with you have heavy deer damage. That's the only time we sing it with heavy turkeys and deers and turkeys are not as bad for us. Now as they want. The coyotes is really worked on them, but we still have a tremendous amount of turkeys. But okay, so get you okay. So you're saying that the wildlife damage is hard to account for because we might be talking to somebody like okay Wildlife pressure is not a big issue. But what do we do? What do we decide then? You know you started out drilling soybeans and that was what the 1980s nineties. Yeah, and we got away from drilled soybeans, right? Yeah. Yep, you know our see well you think about it back in the 80s. We was paying, you know, even early nineties. We just paying, you know, 12 to 14 dollars for certified seed and now we're paying well today we're paying 60 bucks 70 when you put sea treatment on you got a lot more costs there. Now your hard wire your blades cost a lot more the drill maintenance is much more than the planner but at the end of the day what we learned was our our 20 inch beans every time without yield as long as Wildlife what the issue Force? now you you've got to look why did we go to 20 inch soybeans and stay with that program instead of going to 15 because your data will show your 15s 10 to out yield. We're planting corn on arrows. We're planting corn on 22 inch rows, but we're planting corn and beans the same day. So we got to have two planners at the operation that we have. Now you Matt may not have that situation. He's he's more of a solo Guy versus I've got employees. And so you got to look what works for you. There's not a right or wrong answer here. You got to look at what works for you, but for us it worked great going to the 20 explainer because we was going to buy a 15 inch 40 foot planner. We got the price and it was 89,000 more. And we did the math and looked at the yield gain on that 15 inch versus at 20 inch. And it was going to pay for the extra 89,000 when the plan was wore out. Yeah, right. So yeah, I got a rebuild the planner and I'm still in the hole. So it's your thing of yeah, it might have gotten you an extra bushel yield. But then you extrapolate that and amortize that and you say yeah, and so all I did was just pay for equipment and and yeah, and and so it doesn't work. Would you find the decide? Okay. Maybe you haven't decided anything Mr. Swanson you you were looking for an answer and What are we just confused him good? What did you decide? Well, I mean the situation right now as we've got one 60 foot 20 inch planter and yeah, what was that again? One one sixty foot wide 20 inch planner. So 36 row 20 inches. That it was not a cheap piece of equipment. There's not many of those around and Essentially, what we're trying to do is plant all of our own plus another Thousand Acres so of custom work and a lot of that is soybeans, but the guy wants them planted. He only has one planner. And he has a 15 foot drill that actually used to belong to me. So he's got a 24 row 30 inch planter in that 15 foot drill. And of course he wants his beans planted early. But he wants to plant his Corner early too. So we've been doing more and more of his Bean planning. And so that kind of prompted this question and then you threw the kind of the small grains cover crop thing into the equation and you're like, well, maybe we need to look at a Smaller corn planter and a drill or something else to to meet this. Now. We've planted weed in 15 inch rows here, too. With a corn planter or when we were planting 15 inch everything. And that works, okay, but again. It's it's just like anything else constantly reevaluating what my assumptions are and and that was what prompted that question and say. Hey is this a possibility and you said you did corner, you know corn on 15 intros. Yeah, we've done corn actually that area corn beans and weed on 15 inches. And well, I guess we should we should wait because we're talking about soybeans. I want to hear about the corner of their time. All right. So right now you're using a 60 foot 20 inch planter. You just said something else. You said you're is the answer to get some smaller piece of equipment. Yeah. So we talked about moving to like a, you know, a 12 or 13 or 16 row 30 inch planner for corn and and they drill or something else for soybeans and the small grains and things like that. But again, you know, we've got one person. So there's a you know, I've Got a Friend up north that he switches back and forth from his air Cedar to his corn planter and back and forth and just has both pieces of equipment sitting this s***. So, all right. We keep talking about Planters and Kevin said well, what about the guy that you know doesn't have as many acres and you know only has this the point is you can make any of this stuff work. You know, we're talking more roast face and right now and you know, but why you know that singing relation. Wow, why do we want to go there? And it's really hard to sing late with that drill. It's practically impossible. I mean, you can go the SI meters. They do a great job compared to a flute meter but still at the end of the day, you can't get that Precision that you can with a planner. now we picked up eight bushels just going from a drill to 20 inch rows planting with a Kinsey seed me, you know seed cup style delivery then when we switch to the We decided we solder drill we decided that we was just going to broadcast our cover crops and our small grain and then incorporate it with vertical tillage, which works pretty darn good then we wanted to take the money from the drill and buy a brand new planter dedicated to soybeans. and so we went with a 1795 John Deere 24 row 20 inch planner with a 40-foot toolbar. And we went with these active merge and this was early on when deer first come out with his act emerges a second year of them. You know, they was targeted to the corn Market. but when I met with deer at the body classic and myself and Mr. David hoola, we've met in private with them there and got to talk about things and they was all excited telling us about how good this thing's gonna do on corn. Well, I was thinking man, you know. If we do singulate 120,000. That's gonna be where it pays the bills at so that's why we went with the brush style meter went with that for my soybean planner. Now, what we've done was we started doing we had just started a year before that doing stem Dieter counts on our soybeans in our irrigated reason we chose irrigated ground is because we're controlling the water. We're not worried about a dry out or anything this drip irrigation. So every acre got the same, you know, got to ride him out. You can't say one area with sweeter than other So we as measuring of stem diameters and in looking at the nodes the fruiting nodes. And and the amount of pod load that each one had and when we got them little spinlies or doubles they spend these they just did not produce many fruity nodes. They didn't produce many beans. They couldn't retain the pods because it's competing with that other plant just like you got a doubling corn and we started looking at our soybeans. We started that several years ago looking at his corn right my farm manager. He was only one day. He said Kevin we can increase his soybean yields tremendously if you let me manage it like you do your car. I said, okay, so we started going in it together. And I mean it was a beautiful deal. We went many years like that. And so what did that do this past year. We averaged 71 bushels across our whole farm and you may say well, you know, we're doing that now, well, you need to look at the geography that we Farm in. So in order to average 71 bushels with our small fields, we got to be 90 to 100 bushels out in the field, right those outside border effects that are so bad and we've got the approximately I need to get the final number for you guys. So you know, but I'd say just estimate probably 300 plus Fields maybe could be closer to 400 if you counted every little patch. So to do that as a 71 bushel average across that was a record crop Force last year. We had 69.96. My banker said we have for 70 bushels. I said no we ever 69.96. He said well, I'm rounding it off to see me I said now we ain't gonna do that 69.96. I want to break the safety and it's just to go. So now I want to break this now. I want to go to 75 next that attention to detail that singulation when we started looking at the simulation and that seed space and Matt. And really watch them when we went to the electric planner with that brush delivery system and the seat belt from precisional do just as good. I'm satisfied with that. But this is what we used on our farm what we found was we was picking up about three to four bushels extra across just because a uniformity It was so uniform and then when we would count our stem dancers, we actually quit doing that. We was actually we had gauges and meters on there and it those things give so much trouble with my seat in the wires. It was about a nightmare. So we just started doing counts. We'd go out doctor post and I would pull tremendous amounts of plants pull them up and count the main stem fruity nodes the successful pods two, being three being four being very rare that we see a five being. I just the guys has found one or so. I don't know that I've ever found five being part, but We grow mostly group threes and fours is what we grow. To give you idea of the variety maturity group. But they're all in determinate beings. But that consistency is unbelievable assignable what we do with it for our tough souls and Matt Scott. What I would I've never been on their Farm mat, but just that generally that area Illinois. It's just beautiful good Rich dirt and I feel like with that good dirt that he gets these little things and it can really add to him. I think he would be in that 80 bushel Farm average or maybe more one of the questions I would have Kevin is so I Precision has been a couple videos of the PTI farmer about just moving from the 80 cell play to the 54 the Dual row plate to the single real plate. Hey to personally dumb as me. What's that mean moving from an 80 cell plate to watch a dinner plate? Just tell just go ahead and bring that down a notch to somebody seed plate that they the Precision cells right now. It has 80 holes. Yeah, the old version had 80 holes. So it was a double row. So when it ran around it was dropping multiple seeds and it wasn't singulated like a corn plate has a single roll of hole roll holes around it. So the 54 cell plate the new one. I think it's 54 has a single row. So the singulation is more possible with that single. Well, it moves from impossible with the double row plate to possum. Yeah. so but one of the things that they talk about in the PTI Farm data is just moving from that 80 cell to the 54 cell is like a bushel which you know, it pays for the discs obviously, but that's not when you were talking about the simulation is so so important. I'm like, well, I don't if he was that important you think you come up with more than a bushel, but you're saying moving to the The Speed Tube or the exact emerge with the brush delivery is is probably more important than as far as yes the seed delivery side. That's a good point Matt. So with our with our deer planners when we planted soybeans with them with the Precision, he says we actually used a 60-sale beast, which is not common, but we wanted that we wanted that to bigger DS because we are running a lower population. So it is saying to work better. We got better singulation. They've improved that now greatly But what we found is that seed delivery with us a Speed Tube or brush. prevents that ricochet it prevents that bounce and that soybean round bounces so much easier than a corn seed and and you're already trying to keep them three inches apart. Or four inches apart. So if you get a bounce and it bounces an inch, then the next thing you know, it's off. so we've actually multiple time to take measures and went out and measured off 20 foot. And if it's on three and a half inches, every soybean plant will be three and a half inches. I mean, it'll be it'll be within a quarter inch all the way across you don't see doubles. You don't see that bounce and my gut feeling is and and I'd almost argue that I'm right on. This is the seed delivery on that is just as critical as the metering system these metering systems do a pretty darn good job, but I think most of our problems come when it leaves its hands off that seed disk and falls down to the ground. I think all that right there because the say if you got some rocky ground or uneven ground and that road units really having to work up and down it's gonna cause bounce in that seed. There's no question about that. So you need to consider all those aspects but it's the it's the total package is what I like to say. I just like to hear that you said seed delivery. Okay, we can talk about population Etc. But what your point is when gravity is allowed when that thing comes down and you said it's around soybeans round like a ball what a balls do they bounce so if it's falling from a couple of feet Whatever it is a foot by timing is down there you're saying it's nice to say that we're putting them out where they're gonna be every three and a half inches, but it might be that it bounced and it's not three and a half inches anymore. And so that that affects everything. I mean, it's how it how it sprouts then growing into the other plants Etc. Well and I would add this. I mean just talking to Kevin. I mean looking at our soybean stands this isn't like an old war out planner issue. I mean, the planner that we're running now is two years old. and it's probably only covered six or seven thousand acres total because it's you know, because of the guy that before me that had it so That in the no-till conditions when that row unit. I mean it shouldn't be hammering. But when it moves up and down, there's definitely a variability within the row. I guess I hadn't seen I don't know that I've even seen a stand in person. I guess that was singulated or picket fence like a corn stand. We would we expect a corn stand to be. And I guess what Kevin saying in the picture maybe that you show the group or something. I think I've seen one of your pictures recently it was. Very consistent like a picture it really is. And you're saying that I mean you find more yield in there just in the consistency of plants just like it isn't cool. Oh, yeah. Yeah because I mean we're we are. You know people laugh. When they don't believe how little money we have invested in our soybean crop but we we actually take eight gallons of Nature's triple option or I use a product from your plus. It's a base product of 318-18 and he puts the ingredients and I want to I want out there and I was doing that before I come across triple option, but we'll use the triple option put eight gallons of it depending on your Freight you might as well say way up today's market price. We'll just use seven dollars for round number Freight depends on a whole lot of that how close are the plants so you go 56 dollars acre and that's your total fertility program and we're sitting there once we get off these outside edges. We're we're cutting 90 and 100 bushel soybeans consistently here in and you're out. This ain't one time thing. Our Farm's been over a hundred bushels on the irrigated beans for I think six years straight now, that's we've not And we've seen some big numbers. But now that was with a lot of the fertilized put on the irrigation, but just in our standard form that planner is that's another difference in the planning to drill. You got so many fertility options with that planner. You're already set up running coin and in your situation with a 20 inch Planner on corn. So you're you're an excellent. Do I would I would do everything I could to run that Planner on corn and soybeans on that 20 inch configuration. I'd run my hand for on there. You know, I'd put that Nutri charge in there and I would put some accomplished Max or a lot kind product in there and then on my tuba two, that's where I put my three, you know my triple option from Natures or my three 1818 product from yield plus which is actually like a 2.9 1721 time I get everything Blended in a lot of cascade in there. So you got a lot of options there Matt and that's something you know, you can't do with the drill. But then if you got that electric seed delivery that Speed Tube or that brush delivery system. So the only Ricochet you can have is it drops the seed what an inch from the bottom of the seed trench prop approximately I don't know is that come out? So that's the only bounce you can have and that's where you get that consistency. All right. I want to know about this. Population because we said we're going to talk about population. We're also going to talk about your seven years of Trials and and we've what we've spent a lot of time talking about plantar configurations or even planter Styles and and plan our wits. you're not you're saying there's no right answer my if it depend on what kind of fields you have what you can afford obviously is a big factor way where you are, but what how much what should his population be? To be in a hundred and ten hundred hundred eighteen thousand and and that's don't depend on your plant date too, Damian. If you're planting on time, maybe a little bit on the early side, you know never I don't see no reason to exceed 120. Now I will say down into Delta Matt and him are in real shallow soles that's bad to crust over if you got a crusting over effect and you got a plant, you know, a real shallow seed that I plan to inch and a half but those guys are planting. What about an inch Matt? If I remember that's what my miles does and so no, he doesn't have an actual number. He always says about a knuckle But that's about an ounce knocking about each kind of like kind of like your grandma cooking just today. Yeah day is the dash of this Dash in a damn. But but yeah, so, you know, they got a situation there were and the guys here in North Carolina down in the blacklands there and Pamlico County. They get worried about crusting over so they're they're careful about how low they'll go on population in case they need to help pop that being through so answer me this Kevin Kelly Garrett. One of the first things I did with you guys when I joined up a year and a half ago was a recording about population and soybeans. He says he had us he put 34,000 Bush a 34,000 population out in one trial like 34,000. I said, I'm not the farmer around here, but good God that seems awfully like like you're just like flinging a couple out the window once in a while and he says and they did I thought he said that his biggest yield actually happened around 64,000. So maybe 30 minutes each day to save. Best final stand as harvest stand so yes, we're lost from your planter. But so if you go in at 110, that's gonna give you a hundred ten hundred fifteen you're going to be in that 90-95,000 final stand as we lose that much we do it do we lose 20% It ain't far from fifteen twenty percent. It's not as bad when these good seed treatments were used. Yeah, and it also depends on the year the condition of the seed. It's not uncommon to get splits and there and you know some years you get some beautiful seed and other years you wonder how they got them to pass the sea quality. Swanson I mean there's probably like the old timers down the road that think that if you did anything less than 200,000 you're stupid because that's what you put more seed out more seed more yield more seed more yield. There's people that still think that right. Yeah. I mean why when I grew up we used to load the 15 foot 750 drill out the back foot two ten truck was 50 pound bags planting 225,000 Acres, so and we aren't really that far removed from it. The problem we had and and people further north of me even would have it worse as the white mold issue for us. Got me pretty bad. So we started pulling the population back to get some more air in there, but it's still I mean the other part of this equation for me. Speaking about the population thing is we're all non-GMO soybeans. So we're still using A lot of herbicides that were around when I was a little kid. So there's there's a weed control component of the narrow rows and population thing that I'm not sure. I have a firm grasp on but to piggy back on on the low population. We've done trials down to 50,000. And not seen a substantial difference. And yield in our situation now if you had a bad year of emergence you may have 30,000 I would expect anyway, you would see a hit but I don't know. So what what is your going into 2023 you're going to plant them on 15 inch rows. We'll be on if we keep the planter will be on 15s or 20s probably. You don't know yet? That's part of why we're having this discussion in January. Yeah. Well, we're having discussion in January and I would also point out that a couple years ago. If you said you didn't have your planter figured out you couldn't even get a planter between now and spring but is that is that alleviating? Can you get planners right now? I you would make sure it was on the ground. I've had two consecutive years of it'll be there in March and it showed up May 10th. So yeah and last year it started raining May 9th. So that worked out really really great. So right now you think you're gonna be planning on 15 intros, what's your problem? Yeah. I mean our plan will be the stick with this planner if we do decide to trade it'll be 15 the population. Why is we'll probably do for planning April 5th starting April 5th. We'll probably do eating the 90,000 on the good stuff the well drain stuff and we'll probably go up to 120 on the poor stuff. I would say And the reason you do non-GMO isn't because you're some kind of an anti-gmo Dr. Oz proponent. It's because They pay us up to 350 a bushel depending on the variety and where it's going. Okay. So you're you make your premium you think you set aside some yield because of that. Um, actually that's interesting. So I talked to the the seed head seed picker. I'm sure he has an official title for a major Seed Company two years ago, and they had just refreshed their non-GMO lineup. So got new varieties in their non-GMO lineup. and they're non-GMO lineup if they took the average was actually the best yielding of the enlist extend non-GMO varieties they had and Kevin Oh, what about the the big finding from seven years of you doing studies. The big finding was we used to plant more seed and we had to we were wasting money on seed. That's probably the biggest one right? There is one person says receivable yield. It didn't prove true. Yeah, we picked up more night bushels just between roast space and singulation and then we you know lower in the population was that's where you pick up money real quick. And that's what Matt was just talking about if you know. You can go down to thirty thousand on a harvest population and if it's a consistent stand. You will be amazed how little yoderduction if any you'll see. But it gets scary when you get down to that because you got weed issues. You got you got a lot of deals the branches are bad on the bottom to break off when they get real real low populations like that. It's hard to get them all harvested. But at the end of the day, even if you don't get them all harvested in they still you'll you know nearly the same you question what you really need out there. You just hate to have volunteer means the next year where you didn't do a good job getting them up. Kevin just to review your data you're saying the eight bushel difference is from singulated with the with the brush delivery or just bushels was comparing a drill to the Kenzie with a seat cut meter and then when I went from the Kinsey or actually a John Deere he said which was basically the same thing. I accept instead of a seed cup. I had a seed disc when I went from it to the electric planter. I picked up an additional three bushels there. With the with the speed View and well brush to use what I would call it. Brushed meter by the meter and brush is what they call it weird. exact emerged He got a baby. We got it this simply off of simulation, but we have such poor souls that. You know, it's really important to get that even root growth. And when you do you digs on your plants all your roots are consistent. You don't have that one spindling one right there every side and then the other that's just it just works for us. How many planners is we're talking about equipment and we went from so population by the way, Kevin said $118 110 118. That's what the population even though. Our man. Kelly says you can do fine with half that 64,000 you're saying. Hi. Yeah. I mean I like going down to a hundred but Irish uses we get so much wildlifease, you know damages around ages. We're just about need to be a little more we're out in the field we can cut it and it depends it's like Mass. It ends on where your own good ground or bad ground, but just probably an average across the whole every acre 2,200 Acres of soybeans waxed about 2,600 for custom work that we plant. We're going averaged probably 115,18. Plant, you're talking planet population count planet population. That is not harder to population. Hey, what about then? The person that says all right. What about this equipment thing? I'm a young guy and I'm like Kevin. I don't have this. What do you have right now you have how many how many devices do you use to plant stuff at Matthews Farms? Oh, we got three 24 rope Planters now, so, you know, we're running two db44s on corn and then we're running a 1795 soybeans and with our small Fields. I like to try to plan for basically 800 acres a piece for the Planters during the prime growing seasons. And then you know, we're 400 Acres 800 acres. her planner and during each section. So we got a plan and river bottom. So we're here today integral into planner per week area eager per planter per will do we average about a hundred acres a day. We're planner to 150. A good days hundred and fifty and I mean we're folding up so much. I mean if I got I've got one form of 500 Acres on it and we pull in there. We're playing it two days. But it's big fields, but you get any small patches and it just slows you down and we got rocks. Our average planting speed is going to probably be 3.5 mile an hour. 3.8. That'll be our average speed sometimes four. That's because a rocks or rough stuff you get real bottoms you're running five and a half. So what you just said to you've got two players that do all the corn and one planter does all the beans. Yep. That's right because you said he heard that's most confused 800 acres per corn. That's only 1600 Acres you grow more than 1600 acres of corn. Yes, but we got our rare our Upland planning which we plant in April, okay. Then we got our River bottoms that we plant in may end of May 1st. Gene won't be done by we like to be done by June 1st, but June 5th 6 ain't no big deal. Then we got we'll have 1500 Acres of early beans. So we plant group fours in April. Then we go to May and we plant group threes. Okay, and why are we doing that? And that's because we're managing the maturity date by summer solstice. That's our Central focus is June 21st. We're where we want to be all around it. And when we go into reproduction that is key. So then then we go to double crop which will be another five six hundred acres that will be and about to 18th of June. So we got three different critical periods, and that one planner fits. We we make our maturities. Fit to growing season and fit the planter so that the Planters always on time. Since we're talking about populations and spacing tell me then with the soybeans is what we do the early stuff the second stuff then the double crop stuff what changes about spacing and population with that planter set up from one to the next to the Third. Anything no. No, the planner's gonna be pretty consistent because we're Max we're maximizing our equipment with our maturity options that we have. That's one advantage we have in the South versus you Matt is probably got more options and say the guys and South Dakota to do, you know, we've got more options we can go from a group three here. I'll wait to group seven if you change okay, Mr. Swanson, so I wrap things up here on population spacing and and equipment and all that. Do you change anything from beginning season to see someone being Not really. Typically we like to say here that we want to plant everything and five to ten days per crop at the most if not five to ten days total. So kind of forgetting though the replant you're forgetting then that it gets cold and to get down to below freezing for about four days and it rains four inches and then a whole big bunch of your Fields have water on top of them. In fact, you almost go out on ice skate a couple of the morning. She gets down below freezing and you say I've got to go out and replant all that. So you're forget. This is my if this is our perfect world we're talking about today. You don't need to go there It Is Well any ideas if you don't ever put yourself in that situation, right, so But you just saw some of that I can tell you if you're planning April 4th and Western Illinois West Central, Illinois. There's a good chance. You're gonna be replanting some stuff come May first May 15th, maybe even right your plan corn. Maybe if you're playing beans out early. I would say that maybe not. Yeah so big takeaway since you're the one that brought up the subject of singulation soybean population and and we shared and Kevin shared the data and we're making this just for our paying members. What's your big takeaway your big aha or your big closing thing. You want to leave with our our listeners? Well, Kevin's pretty much murdered. My idea of buying a drill is our second is our being planner slash weed planner slash cover crop planner, honestly, and I mean, it's probably a situation because of the coolness where we plant beans first and then wait for it to warm up playing corn and Again, you know this the concept of being able to put fertilizer on with our corn, you know with the corn planter with the equipment that we already have. I don't I don't argue with them there either. I mean if you're talking about a drill based best case, you probably got one product and you got to set it all that equipment up all over again and and For more rows, you know on a 40 foot seven half inch planner you're talking or drill. You're talking 64. Okay. So by the way other than other than cover crops or wheat is that is what you're what Matt is saying Kevin the drills do drills is that why drills went away and are probably gonna stay gone. Where I mean, they're used in rice as well. They certain crops can hold a different things that they work well in but the another issue you got is these drills cost so much more to maintain than a planner. And it's getting real. I mean this Parts deal. These replacement parts is the price on is enormous. They probably you know, if we look at our parts bill. Just don't plan on repairs. We're probably up. 35% versus last year and for 2020 one versus 2022 and going into 2023. I figure we're gonna be up another 25% to 30% from what I'm hearing. on your blades bearings your general repair items that maybe going through every year so you got 24 rows versus On that same row with the land that you're gonna cover what three times that amount mad. I guess I'm gonna drill four times. So you're talking about a lot of Labor you're talking about a lot of a lot of Maintenance keeping that drill up compared to that planner. So you need to look at all of it because at the end of the day, you got to pay the bills. Yeah, no money at the end. And the other thing I mean if you take I mean if you take Kevin's eight bushel or 12, I guess between the two even if you divided that in half, I mean we were delivering eighteen dollar soybeans last year or this for 22 now, is that going to stay that up there? No, but we're probably looking at 17 16 17 for this year. I mean even at four or five bushel that that's a lot of money. Yeah. All right, we talked about singulation we talked about because I didn't know what it was. We talked about planter types. We talked about spacing we talked about population. And so that's there's a lot here. In fact, I'm not sure. I'm not sure I still am any more convinced of anything that I was before we started because I got good. I'm rot for my environment. I had to make a decision tomorrow. I would know what to do because I I think there's still some gray area here, but I guess Matt just told me Kevin just told me to not use a plant to drill and and Swanson still might be changing his planter between now and planting season. Yeah, Damon, I will say that if any of our members has got some items they'd rather hear us talk about in this podcast like this versus a video on the website if they just send that to the question side and let Danielle know and she can get it out to all of us because you know, somebody May would rather listen to it this way versus video. I don't know but I think so. Really the part of it is I think there's a lot of people that are probably sitting there saying man. I wonder what would work best for me. But the main thing we got away here is there's a there's a population number that probably is the right number. There's there's a few things you can it's kind of like there's a few things you can cross off the list. They're for sure not the right thing right? There might be it might be for right answers, but there's definitely three wrong answers and I think that's kind of what we got right there. Yeah, like a DMV test. What do you think swans Professor Swanson did we three three things for sure that are the wrong answer and a few things that could be the right answer. Well, I mean, I think. The drill situation I think for for soybeans, especially what I call a standard crop soybean versus a double crop soybean. Is probably out and that was I was kind of hoping it'd be close enough that we could maybe make that decision but if the singulation and and plant consistency is as big for soybeans, which is what Kevin is is saying as it is for corn. I know what it is for corn. So, I mean, you're kind of out. Yeah. There you go. That's where we're gonna leave it. His name is Matt swanse. He's an extreme agaffiliate from Western, Illinois. I call them Professor swans and he's always guys just keeps keeps taking more classes. It's alright folks. We're all about learning and that's why he's here to help you. Learn. His name is Kevin Matthews. He is one of the original founders of extreme AG from East Bend North Carolina and seven years of of spacing and and planting different studies. So he's got he's got more information up his sleeve than just that so stay tuned for more stuff great member content right here. I'm Damian Mason. Thanks for being here for part of exclusive for members only cutting the care from extreme egg.