Podcast: Nitrogen Problems: Are you Using More Nitrogen Than You Need?

00:00:00 Nitrogen reduction strategies. We're talking about practices, products, and tips you can use 00:00:05 to reduce nitrogen without sacrificing yield. Why? Because eventually you're gonna have no choice but to reduce nitrogen. 00:00:12 Welcome to Extreme ags Cutting the Curve podcast, where real farmers share real insights and real results to help you improve your farming operation. 00:00:21 This episode of Cutting the Curve is brought to you by cloth where machines aren't just made, they're made for more 00:00:28 with a wide range of tractors, combines, foragers and hay tools. Cloth is a family business just as driven, demanding, 00:00:35 and dedicated as yours. Go to cloth.com and start cutting your curve with their cutting edge equipment. 00:00:41 And now here's your host, Damien Mason. Hey there. Welcome to another fantastic episode of Cutting the Curve. 00:00:47 I've got Temple Roads coming at us remotely from his farm in, uh, temple in in Maryland. 00:00:52 He's, uh, in his truck. He's running through the combines. He pulled over to talk to me and Ryan harder. 00:00:57 Ryan Harder is with Sound Ag and we're talking about nitrogen reduction. This is a bit more of a series, if you will. 00:01:03 Yes, it's informal series. We've talked about what Johnny Rell and the trials he's doing down in Tennessee at his field 00:01:08 day, where he reduced nitrogen rates on corn to see what the results were. One of the, of course, when he went down to zero nitrogen, 00:01:15 the corn looked like a stunted drowned a sweet corn without ears. Uh, um, we went to Kelly Garrett, who did various rates 00:01:23 of reduction on corn. Here's the deal. We've covered it in different episodes and different methodologies 00:01:29 and different fields to show you the results. Now we're talking about products, practices, and tips. Why you can reduce nitrogen outset without sacrificing yield 00:01:38 and why you're going to have to, in a nutshell, regulation is very likely coming. I'm not cheering this on. 00:01:45 In fact, you know, uh, here, here at Extreme Ag, we just do, we deal with the cards. We are dealt temple's. 00:01:51 Our guy on this, you've heard countless times talk about the regulation that came to the Chesapeake Bay area long 00:01:56 before it came to where you farm on a reduction, particularly a phosphorus. Well, it's my view 00:02:02 that nitrogen reduction regulation is coming. In fact, there's an article from 2011 that's how long this goes back 13 years ago, 00:02:10 where the United States Department of Agriculture was talking about reducing agriculture's nitrogen footprint. 00:02:15 Our new policy approach is needed. It's been in the talks for a while. It's getting more heat. It's coming temple. Gimme the farmer's perspective. 00:02:23 Then I want to talk to our agronomist from Sound Ag. Well, you know, Damien, you hit on it a minute ago, you know, from the area that we're in. 00:02:31 Um, yes, it is a phosphorus reduction for us here, but it's not only a phosphorus reduction, it was a reduction for nitrogen as well. 00:02:39 So what you guys are, you're talking about coming. It's absolutely coming. Um, and, and, and it is, it's very scary. 00:02:48 You know, I mean, uh, when we go places, Damien, you and I together, um, people always ask us like, you know, how do you deal with the regulation? 00:02:57 How do you do? I mean, you really have to find a way to reinvent yourself. The good news is, is the technology's out there now 00:03:05 where we have enough tools in our toolbox, um, that we can actually do a really good job of reducing nitrogen, reducing phosphorous, 00:03:13 and doing all the right things and balancing the plant where we can get to a point. Now we can actually grow better yields 00:03:21 than what we grew before. Ryan, uh, Kelly Garrett, who's one of our extreme ag founders says, um, the holy grail 00:03:29 of American agriculture is corn production because by God we love to grow corn in America and we grow lots of it, and we're good at it. 00:03:35 And you wanna grow more corn. You know what you gotta do? You gotta just pump the nitrogen to it. 00:03:39 That has been the, the psyche that has been the, the approach for, at least since post-World War ii, we're talking probably 70 plus years. 00:03:49 That has been all we want to do, grow more corn, throw more nitrogen at it. Only recently have some folks, temple Kelly, 00:03:58 et cetera, said, you know what? We don't need 1.2, 1.5 units of nitrogen per, uh, bush a lot here. 00:04:06 And they're cutting back. They're discovering they can do it with half that. I think we're still not even close to discovering 00:04:12 what we could be doing. Your thoughts as a young agronomist? No, I think you're exactly right. 00:04:18 Damien, you know, when Temple alluded to it earlier, you know about just making sure that hey, we're keeping everything in the right balance. 00:04:23 Right? And I think that what the hidden cost that a lot of people don't realize is that yeah, when you put on extra nitrogen that you don't need, first 00:04:31 of all, you're spending a few extra dollars, especially in the, in the tight ag economy that we're in today. 00:04:36 You know, that's probably not the thing to be doing. And also we can actually get things outta balance pretty quick if we have an excessive load of nitrogen. 00:04:43 So when we have excessive nitrogen, we start to get our soils unbalanced. So we start to limit boron 00:04:48 and potassium uptake into the plant. So it's similar to that whole interaction of like phosphorus, right? 00:04:54 So if we have a high load phosphorus fertilizer sort of fertilizer, if you don't have zinc in there, then all of a sudden you've kinda shut the 00:05:01 zinc off to your plant, right? Because we're unbalanced. Same thing goes with nitrogen. If we have too much nitrogen, we start to talk 00:05:06 or unbalanced things so that, uh, they don't start to get into the plant. So the first thing is we think we're over applying. 00:05:15 And, uh, a farmer, if I'm putting my farmer hat on, I'm gonna say, yeah, but you know what? It's traditionally been pretty affordable. 00:05:22 There's no regulation right now. Tell me how much I can use, what the hell I'm gonna keep putting on there. 00:05:27 Temple respond from a farmer perspective For as a farmer's perspective, you know, we're so used to doing that traditional thing, 00:05:38 you gotta unlock your, your mind. And I think this year with the, the price that it cost us for our inputs, it's changed so much that it is going 00:05:48 to make us go out there and look for other things. A way to cut cost and the only way to really cut cost. We can't cut out the fertilizer. 00:05:55 I mean the, the seed, we can't cut out the equipment 'cause we need the equipment, but we can cut some fertility costs 00:06:03 and if we can get your head out of, you know, whatever, uh, what I wanna say I can say, 00:06:09 but if you can get your head in the right place, yeah, you can start to think about, Hey, how can I actually save? And the only way that you can save, 00:06:18 and we can save ourself right into poverty if we're not careful. But if you can save yourself some money, 00:06:23 you can save it on reallocating. And also, um, going back and actually putting the, 00:06:30 putting Narcan on at the needs when it needs it, and these products that we have out there can up use our efficiency. 00:06:40 It can drive our efficiency rating way up. Yeah. And that's what we're trying to do. I wanna talk about some of those products. 00:06:46 Um, before I do that, I just wanna ask, how much on a per bushel basis have you cut back and, and, and you're, you're making more. 00:06:55 In other words, you're, you're using less nitrogen per bushel produce, you know, that whole thing about 1.4, uh, pounds per unit 00:07:01 and all that kind of stuff. Where, where are you now? Okay, so you're a mad guy. So remember you 00:07:07 and I doing all these talks at our field day, and you and I doing, uh, talks about how I cut my fertilizer this year again. 00:07:15 Well, I put on 120 units of n and I've harvested that dry land corn now, and it has had all these different products on it now. 00:07:26 And I cut a lot of money out of it and I even cut out my dry fertility program, you know, so I'm at a, I'm at 120 pounds of end 00:07:34 and the lowest field average that I had on, you know, basically all the dry land that we really, you know, kind of stomped the brakes on Yep. 00:07:44 Really hard. Yep. Was a hundred, 171. So you do the math, All right, one 20 divided 00:07:50 by 1 71 puts you at seven tenths of a pound. Seven tenths of a pound per per bushel. Yes. That's correct. Yeah. 00:07:57 And you used to think and and we used to think almost double that was necessary. Well, you know, and we've been in a nutrient management 00:08:06 program around here, um, for 20 couple odd years. You know, those first years we were used to 1.25, that's where we were. 00:08:15 Yeah. We were at 1.25. That was our goal. That's what we shot for. Um, and it, and it never really worked out. 00:08:23 It was back like he was talking about a minute ago. You know, it just never really worked out. We never got the maximum gain. 00:08:29 Well now when you started in our, in our region, we're allowed one, you know, one pound per bushel. Yep. That's what we're allowed. It can't be over that. Yep. 00:08:40 Um, so reducing it and driving more yield Yeah. Is like what, what is going on here? But it's the tools in the toolbox that we have. 00:08:53 Alright. Speaking of tools in the toolbox going way back, uh, Ryan, and I'm talking like 1970s 00:08:59 Iner was the big product name temple's old enough to remember it. It was a nitro, it, it prevented volatilization, 00:09:06 I think it was a stabilizer they called the nitrogen stabilizer. And that was even new on it 00:09:10 was like, well, why do we need this? Well, because nitrogen's volatile, but 'cause nitrogen, leeches, whatever those things are, 00:09:15 we've come a a long way. Um, so, so talk to me about what you think of y your company does not make nitrogen stabilizers. 00:09:25 Your company makes products that help me just reduce nitrogen, period. So talk to me about that. 00:09:29 Yeah, soer actually, and nitrification, uh, inhibitor. So, so a little bit different mode of action there on the, on the nitrogen cycle to 00:09:37 Pick, that was the very beginning. That was the beginning of this whole idea about how to, how to use nitrogen better 00:09:43 and use, uh, it, it never said use less. It just said you stabilize it. Well, you know, I think we still need to use products like 00:09:50 that too, to make sure that the nitrogen we're applying isn't, isn't going down the tile lines or isn't, uh, izing up to the atmosphere through the, 00:09:58 through the nitrification process. And, you know, there's a few different ways to do that. And so our product being one that source product 00:10:04 that's helping mimic that str acton to get the, uh, the microbes and the rhizosphere activated and basically make them, uh, work better so 00:10:14 that way we can tap into some of that, uh, some of that nitrogen that we're kind of getting, that we think we get from the soil. 00:10:19 So really tap into that organic matter mineralization and able to, uh, access the entire r ophere that way. And I think some, another thing is that to hit on, you know, 00:10:28 temple's down to 120, uh, total pounds of nitrogen, like he said, and I'm sure he's not doing all in one shot, right? 00:10:34 And so I think that as we think about this nitrogen reduction thing broadly and making it work, we can't just go out there in the fall 00:10:40 and apply 120 pounds of, of anhydrous ammonium and say, yep, well Temple Temple applied 120 pounds, so I'm just gonna apply 120 pounds. 00:10:48 I'm gonna do it this way. Right? So I think that's not, don't do That. Exactly. 00:10:51 That's, that's not the right way to do it. Right. And so, you know, split applications of nitrogen. I'm not talking 6, 7, 8, you know, I know that, uh, 00:10:59 some people believe in that, but I don't think that's necessary to get to the kind of, you know, place we need to be in agriculture. 00:11:05 But just broadly thinking, you know, if we have have two, hopefully at least three different app applications 00:11:11 of nitrogen, I think we're going down the right path. Especially, you know, you think about using like a starter fertilizer like a two by two or two by zero 00:11:18 or, you know, doing something in season. I think that if we can start to be a lot more efficient with our nitrogen applications, 00:11:25 we can definitely reduce that number by a lot. All right. So I want, we talked about applications and we're gonna come back to products and some practices. 00:11:33 Uh, temple, how many times did you put nitrogen on this? In that field you're talking about? 00:11:36 Was it three applications? Uh, Four. Four. Four. It was four times NY four nitrogen was, We were, we were in, we were in a tube of two. 00:11:49 We were in a strip till we were in two shots of, uh, a wide drop. And it's very minute amounts. 00:11:57 But if you go back to that chart, DAMing that you and I talked about at, at the field days, um, you go back to that chart of what 00:12:05 that plant actually needs in that life cycle. And you look at it and you, and you tweak your whole thing. Let's say that at, you know, between 00:12:16 and V six, the plant needs 18% of its total nitrogen. Well, if your total nitrogen needs are 200 pounds is what you think, take 18% of it and put it up front there. 00:12:29 And then in the middle there, if it's, you know, 30%, then fulfill that need at 30%. And in the end, if it rest comes in the reproduction 00:12:38 before you get to reproduction, fill it in right there. That's how I've Done this. The chart, the chart, the 00:12:43 chart's remarkable. It's from another company we work with, but it just talks about the lifespan of a corn plant, 00:12:48 for instance, and when it needs nitrogen. And so these guys that think they're gonna put their nitrogen all out of fall for the next spring summer, you're, 00:12:57 you're talking about a plant that needs, uh, the simple's point 18%, uh, between planting and V five or something like this. 00:13:05 Well, it needs a whole bunch more come like August. You think that that stuff Yeah, you went out and flinged out there in October is still around in August. 00:13:12 Hint, it's not, um, no. All right. Talk to me real quickly, Ryan, uh, the product you have sourced, how's it, how do I use it? 00:13:21 How does Temple use it to help him reduce nitrogen without sacrificing yield? Yep. So our, our source product is utilized in a, 00:13:30 in a post herbicide application. So it's a one ounce per u per acre use rate targeting that V four to V six timeframe on, uh, on corn. 00:13:38 And so basically what we're trying to do is we're really trying to activate that soil microbiome. 00:13:42 So the source product is 100% chemistry. There's no live microbials in that. None of this pro proclaimed like bu in a jug type stuff. 00:13:51 So it is hard chemistry with an active ingredient of monoclone. And basically what it's doing is making that plant send 00:13:57 that natural struggle acton signal to get the, get the RSOs sphere activated and increase the population 00:14:03 of nitrogen fixing bacteria in the root zone. Okay. So you said a lot of stuff there. It's not a ba it's not a bacteria, it's, I'm sorry, 00:14:11 it's not a biological, it's true chemistry. It goes in, when did we use it again? When did we apply it? Uh, V four to V six on your corn. 00:14:19 So post herbicide timing. All right. So your first herbicide pass, is that when you put it on temple? 00:14:25 Um, yeah. I actually put it on twice and I, and I, and I put it on with fertility, fertility as a foliar. So I put it on at like V five 00:14:34 and then I go across it later on and I put it on one more time. It, when we, what we found is, you know, 00:14:42 all these different products seem to work very well together. When you put a foliar in with source, they seem like they, 00:14:49 they work off each other somewhat. Um, and that's how we've really made out really, really well with it. So I'm actually putting it on twice. 00:14:57 I'm not just putting it on once, I'm putting it on twice on high production acres on my regular production acres. 00:15:04 Yes. One time at my herbicide pass and that's it. But, you know, go back to the products and let's go all the way back and, and I, 00:15:13 and I, I wanna say something about this so everybody understands, you know, when you were talking about nitrogen stabilizers a minute 00:15:21 ago, um, Damien nitrogen stabilizers, most all of them are rease inhibitors. What that does is it goes in 00:15:31 and it kills the biological activity in the soil with the nitrogen that you're putting on. And what the reason 00:15:38 that it stabilizes the nitrogen and it does work. It's because when you put nitrogen in the soil, what happens is, is the bio biology goes to work 00:15:48 and it's transferring it over into, um, the way that the plant needs it to take it up. Well, when it's transferring it over, 00:15:56 that's when it, it's, it's volatile. So that's the problem with a uase inhibitor with some of these stabilizers. 00:16:04 When you throw a stabilizer in there, you're killing biology. And that's the worst thing that we can do. Yeah. 00:16:10 As much as we're saving a neurogen. Well, the problem is, is the plant's not taking it up either. 00:16:15 Yeah. Because it's locked down where it can't take it up. So that's where a lot of these other products work. 00:16:21 You know, when you put an ergen on, you know, we'll add like nutri charge for instance. We'll add a ic, we'll add a vic, 00:16:29 and we add all these stuff to our, we treat our fertility, but we're not killing biology. 00:16:35 We're doing everything that we're doing. We're promoting biology sources doing the same thing. It is waking up that plant 00:16:42 and making the roots do things that it never did before. So it is enhancing it. That's what I'm getting at. 00:16:48 We have that synergetic effect where everything is working together. Ryan, by the way, he just summed it up for you. 00:16:56 I like it right there. He just did your job for you. But the point is, we used to, first off, we used to overuse nitrogen, still do. 00:17:02 Then we thought, well, we're gonna put a, some stability product in there so the nitrogen doesn't volatilize or leach. 00:17:08 Okay, great. But you still have the net effect of you destroyed your soil biology, you over nitrogen, and now you destroyed your soil biology, which is a living, 00:17:16 breathing organism as we know more now about soil than we used to. So the new methodology is stuff like yours, 00:17:25 use less nitrogen, get more benefit of it by actually getting into the plant. And that's the, the, the practice that you, 00:17:31 you would champion and say we should be doing more of. Absolutely. What about the idea that, um, uh, he just said he used it twice. 00:17:43 He used it, he put your product in with, uh, two different treatments on a foliar and also in, I think you said in furrow or two by two. 00:17:50 So the point is your, your product works over the top or into the soil. So it's fully applied only is what, 00:17:58 uh, what we have labeled. Yep. We've done some trials where we do get some, some positive interactions from it applied, you know, 00:18:04 in different timings and in furrow, things like that. But our, our labeled timing is, is fully replied. Okay. Do I need to know anything else about 00:18:11 practices to make this product work? No. Okay. All right. So in the future, where are we going with this nitrogen reduction strategies? 00:18:19 What do I need to do tempo, what do I need to do? First off, you said you started changing up your fertility, you put nitrogen on four different times versus 00:18:26 people trying to do it all at once. That's the nitrogen reduction strategy, number one. Number two, using a product like source 00:18:32 and a couple of other things that you did that create more, uh, I'd say uptake soil. 00:18:38 What, what are the, the other things you'd say they help with uptake? Efficiency. Help with Efficiency. Efficiency. 00:18:42 Efficiency. Up it's efficiency of the uptake of nutrients. Yes. Okay. What else do I need 00:18:48 to know if I wanna reduce nitrogen? So when, you know, first of all, the first you need to do, I know that we only talk about nitrogen here, 00:18:58 but if you're gonna reduce nitrogen, um, make sure that you have your soils balanced because without your soil's balanced, 00:19:07 if you just cut nitrogen, you've got, you're creating a whole nother animal. So be careful of what you're doing. But can it be done? 00:19:15 Absolutely. It can be done. You know, the way that I use source is again, at V five, you know what my herbicide application, 00:19:25 and then again, later on when I say later on, I mean in tassel and it's over the top and I'm spraying for, I'm putting fertility on foliar 00:19:33 nutrition on with it. And then in between those two times, what am I doing? I'm making two wide drop passes. 00:19:39 So I'm, I am driving enough nitrogen out of those wide drop passes, both of them that covers the cost of that product, and that's how much I'm reducing it. 00:19:50 So I'm getting the same bang, but in the end, I'm getting better yields. Right. I'm sure you run into a lot of, you're, you're a 00:19:59 a younger guy, you're from Illinois. You run into skepticism on this topic about reduction in nitrogen all the time. 00:20:05 Tell me about the reception. Tell me about, uh, maybe they're starting to realize there's legislation might be coming. 00:20:12 What, what's your, what's your experience? Um, definitely folks are becoming more open to, to the idea of reducing. 00:20:19 And I think it all starts around this whole concept of, hey, just go try something. Right? And so I don't think the thing 00:20:25 to do is if you're applying 200 pounds of nitrogen today, I don't think you listen to this 00:20:30 and go apply 120 pounds for next year, right? Like, that's not, that's not the goal of this. The goal is to hey, you know, start seeing 00:20:36 what you can actually reduce, because I'm sure that you can probably reduce more than what you're comfortable with, but just 00:20:41 do something that you're comfortable with. You know, there's, there's a lot of, uh, nitrogen that we get from the soil that folks don't think about from 00:20:48 organic matter mineralization. If you utilize products such as source, you know, we can tap into that even more 00:20:53 and get even more from our soil. And so I think there's some different practices folks can do to really become comfortable reducing nitrogen. 00:21:00 But I would say that for the most part, you know, everybody's kind of hanging in there about that one pound of nitrogen per bushel. 00:21:07 And I think that a lot of the soils, especially in the corn belt, especially in Illinois, when we get three, 4% organic matter soils, 00:21:13 I think we can drop that down to, you know, 0.9 or 0.8 pretty easily and be really comfortable there, 00:21:18 especially if we're doing a lot of the right things and not putting it all out there in the fall. You know, we're doing a few different applications. 00:21:24 I think there's a lot of room to, to really bring that down. It doesn't seem like a big deal, 00:21:28 but tempo, if I just go from one, if I go from one or 1.2 pounds, like, uh, grandpa did, it's down to 0.7 like you did, it's a 50% reduction. 00:21:38 Um, help me out some numbers here, but didn't I just save like 400 bucks an acre? I mean, you save the pile. 00:21:46 I mean, nitrogen costs, you know, depending on what form you get it in is anywhere between 53 and 60 cents per pound that you put out. 00:21:56 So, I mean, you can do the, you just need to do that mass. So, I mean, if you're putting on 200 pounds of nitrogen 00:22:02 and then you're gonna, instead of putting on 200 pounds, you're gonna put on 180 pounds, you know, take 20 pounds, 00:22:07 you're, you're saving $10. Okay. Right? I thought, well, I Thought I'm Trying to save more than that. 00:22:12 To save more than that. Well, you can, but you, it's, it's a work in progress. You're gonna see where you're comfortable at. 00:22:19 Every soul type is gonna be very different. And, and let's just take high organic matter soil, like, you know, Midwest soil, so Midwest soil, they, they hold on 00:22:30 to a lot of nitrogen in an organic matter. This product right there would, would work extremely well in that because there's tied up nitrogen that's in that soil. 00:22:40 My soil type's very, very different. Mm-Hmm. My soil type doesn't hold on to nigen because our CECs are so, so rid ridiculously low. 00:22:49 Yeah, it just volatilizes it gets out there. But the product works two different ways. It's gonna help you untie 00:22:55 or help you balance the plant better by getting some of that nitrogen outta that organic matter. And in my case, it makes my nitrogen efficient, 00:23:05 it makes my root zone efficient, it makes me be able to pull up stuff immediately as soon as it gets into the soil profile. 00:23:12 So it works two different ways. It works very, very well. I was extremely skeptical when they first brought 00:23:20 it out for me to trial. And I'm thinking one ounce, like we're talking about a thimble full an acre and this is gonna work like there, what kind 00:23:28 of magical stuff is this? And I had a lot of choice things to say and I didn't believe in it, 00:23:35 but until I put it into trials, yeah, you know, you don't know. That's why you have 00:23:41 to try it on your farm and make different things. Like Johnny did go from zero, I mean, that's pretty dramatic. 00:23:47 I Johnny went to zero. But just saying, you have to make these trials on your farm to find out where you balance at and where you fall in at. 00:23:56 And you might not fall in perfectly. I can tell you from my instance on my farm, where you've got three years worth of trials on source 00:24:05 and all three years say the same thing. When I put source on a loan, I get a bump and it, and it pays for the product and it pays for what I'm doing. 00:24:15 But it didn't save me a lot of money. It paid for the product, it made sense. It's good for the environment, it's really good for my soil 00:24:23 to not put that much nitrogen down. It was great, but it didn't make me a lot of money. It made me a few dollars an acre, 00:24:30 which is great, don't get me wrong. Where we saw the big difference was is we went back in and we reduced phosphorus and nitrogen 00:24:39 and that was a big savings. And then on top of that, we came back in and we ate it foliar nutrition. 00:24:46 Like we use a bunch of nature's foliar nutrition and we blended it with the source when we put it out. Huge, huge, huge returns. Got it. 00:24:56 Now, I'm not saying that that's gonna work everywhere, but what I'm saying is, is this is why we do trials on our own farm, 00:25:04 because what works for me, Damien is not gonna work for you and vice versa, Ryan. Is that okay? 00:25:10 So the big takeaway there was it, you can't say I spent $14 an acre on, uh, this Ryan guy's product from Sound Ag 00:25:18 and it made me a million dollars, but I can say I made, I spent $14 and allowed me to save, shave off 40 bucks over here, 00:25:27 60 bucks over here, 80 bucks over here, and not sacrificing the yield. I'm guessing that's probably what you've heard before. 00:25:33 Yeah. That's the biggest takeaway. And like what Temple was talking about too, our source product is extremely synergistic with a lot 00:25:40 of other things that folks are doing, whether that be with a planner, with a planter box, treatment, foliar foliar fertilizers, you know, 00:25:47 our product works very well with a lot of others and can enhance the response that you get from all those other products 00:25:52 you're probably already using. So the strategies are first off, uh, use it, use it, used it two different times with four different applications 00:26:02 of fertility that included nitrogen, you cut back on phosphorus. I'm trying to think through the other practices. 00:26:07 Uh, he used his temple to put nitrogen out via, uh, twice over the top. Once in furrow and once in two by two, is that right? 00:26:18 Strip till two by two y drop. Got it. Alright. And then used your product two different times, both of 'em on a herbicide pass, on 00:26:29 A herbicide pass with foliar nutrition. Correct. Got it. And then any other strategies from the standpoint of the person listening that says, 00:26:36 okay, I'm gonna experiment. I'm gonna cut back my nitrogen by 2030 pounds. Who, what else you gotta tell, tell 'em. Ke 00:26:42 Keep in mind, Amy, and when you talk about all these different nutrient management programs that are coming up, um, things 00:26:49 that are coming out in the future, um, the regulation that we're gonna have to deal with when you put fo your nutrition on with the source product, 00:27:00 all these products are gonna pay you back because one, they don't count against your nutrient management plan. 00:27:05 Hmm. So it, it doesn't, it doesn't diminish what you're trying to do. And two, it sets you up for what was coming in the future, 00:27:13 whether it be, you know, carbon credit, money, you know, all of this, you know, the things 00:27:18 that we're doing in regenerative roots, all the things that we're talking about with a Soul health initiative, this all plays into it 00:27:26 and eventually it's gonna get to a point where we're gonna get paid for some of these practices. Hopefully, 00:27:32 Ryan, get me outta here. You pretty much agree with that, I imagine. Oh, absolutely. You know, 00:27:37 and to, to temple's point, you know, my biggest takeaway always is that I want people to think of if an apple a day keeps the doctor away, just 00:27:45 because we, you know, 30 apples at the beginning of the month, that's gonna make us sick. Right? Right. We can't eat multiple apples in one day. 00:27:51 So the same thing's true of nitrogen, right? So if we go apply it all at once, we're actually probably doing more harm than we're good. 00:27:57 And so we need to make sure that we're, that we're splitting that up and making sense of our nitrogen applications. 00:28:02 I agree with that. Is regulation coming to, see, I'm over here in Indiana. We're, we like, we're not like Illinois. 00:28:09 So regulation on this is gonna come to Illinois before Indiana probably. Yeah, I know that, uh, 00:28:15 regulations definitely cracking down on Paul. Applied and Hy Ammonia. That's, that's kinda the biggest one right now, you know, 00:28:21 I know 2025, there's basically you're looking at different rules and regulations that could be imposed then, you know, like, 00:28:27 and like Temple was talking about, it's all about getting paid, right? And so I'm sure if Kelly Garrett was on, 00:28:32 he'd talk about CI score and how you can lower that and, you know, the source product is one way to help help you get there. 00:28:37 And so when we take Biology plus chemistry, now we, now we have agronomy, you know, now we're, now we're getting somewhere and now we're able to really, 00:28:45 you know, dive into, dive into our soils and make the most out of those. You know, you referenced it just 00:28:51 as we're getting ready to hang up here. You're just doing that to make Temple mad. Kelly was on here, he started talking about 00:28:56 how his beef operation's better than Temple's beef operation and Kelly going on and now you're gonna get them two going. 00:29:02 It is like going, he would, you know what you did? You just stirred him up in the back of the station wagon. I gotta drive this home. Did you realize that, Ryan? 00:29:08 Yeah, that's exactly what he did. Thanks. All right. His name's Ryan. Harder. Temple Road's coming at you from the road. 00:29:16 It's harvest time. So excuse him for having a touchy signal a couple of times. He's on the road to go to, uh, get, uh, some harvest, 00:29:23 brought in Harvest time, Ryan Harder's with, uh, sound Ag. If, um, people wanna learn more about this nitrogen 00:29:29 reduction strategies and utilizing your product to do so, where do they go? Sound Ag. 00:29:34 Sound Ag. That's it. By the way, Temple's so agitated now he's gonna be shaking in the combine because you got his competitive juices. 00:29:44 They compete. Yeah, they, they compete. It's, it's like, it, it, it's, you wouldn't believe it. It's like, it's just, they're, they're like siblings 00:29:50 that have to always outdo each other. Ryan, The problem is, is I can't outdo him and that's what gets on my nerves the most. 00:29:57 Like, it, I don't matter, I doesn't matter if it's a bet over, we'll bet on anything, but I've gotten to a point I won't even bet him 00:30:03 because I think out of about 150 bets, I've won one and he's won 1 49. Like I'm done betting with him. I'm done. 00:30:13 All right, so next time I'm gonna have to call Kelly and get him going now and see this is how just I keep their energy level up. 00:30:18 All right, so next time. Thanks for being here. I'm Dave Mason with Extreme Ag cutting the curve. If you wanna learn more, you know what, hundreds 00:30:23 and hundreds and hundreds of podcasts just like this at our website, extreme Mag Farm, 00:30:27 also it's entire library, it's all free there. Also, if you wanna take your learning to the next level, you can become a member for just $750 a year. 00:30:34 That's 750 bucks a year. You can become a member of extreme Ag and you'll have direct access to guys like Temple and Kelly, 00:30:41 and you can agitate 'em just like I do. And then you also get, uh, data at the end of the year and you get special offers from our business partners. 00:30:47 For instance, you can go to Commodity Classic for free, so check it out, extreme ag.farm. So next time, thanks for being here. 00:30:54 That's a wrap for this episode of Cutting the Curve. Make sure to check out Extreme ag.farm for more great content to help you squeeze more profit out 00:31:02 of your farming operation. Cutting the curve is brought to you by cloth where machines aren't just made, they're made for more. 00:31:10 Visit cloth.com 00:31:11.635 --> 00:31:14.615