00:00 So how do you manage fertility for the short-term without mining the soil and still getting a return because you know as a cool idea to 00:06 say I'm not gonna put any fertilizer out there screw them. Well, then if you end up doing that you might screw yourself because you 00:12 won't get a crop. Well, welcome to extreme mags cutting the curve more than just a podcast. It's the place 00:20 for insights. You can apply immediately to your farm operation for increased success this episode of cutting the curve is brought to you by AG Explorer. 00:29 With Innovative products that improve fertilizer efficiency protect yield and reduce stress. AG explore 00:35 helps maximize field potential find out how AG Explorer can help you get more out of your crop at Ag explore.com. And now 00:44 here's your host Damien Mason well greetings and welcome to another fantastic episode of extreme x Cutting the curve. It's not just a podcast it's video. It's information. 00:53 It's insights It's Entertainment and most importantly it's applicable tools. You can apply to your farming operation 00:59 for immediate return and we're talking about something that is going to be a big subject going into 2023. What about managing fertility for the short term right. Now, 01:08 you have a very competitive land environment for both sale and for cash red. How long are you going to actually Farm the ground that you farm right 01:17 now now we're not saying you should go out there mind it. That's an old old nasty term even talk about an Agriculture. 01:23 And then there's the other reality of development Chad Henderson Farms right on the edge of development. 01:29 In Huntsville, Alabama Metroplex. And in fact, first time I was ever there at his farm. I saw all sorts of development signs Kevin Matthews 01:38 in North Carolina everybody and her sister. That's up north says, you know what y'all do retired move to North Carolina or do you think they're moving to their moving to where Kevin is 01:47 and that means that he may not have that field for the next 10 years. Like he wants it. He may only have it for the next year or two. And then 01:53 we got Matt Swanson Matt Swanson is in Western, Illinois. He's an extreme ago affiliate. He has the same issue as we just talked about 01:59 there in the open maybe this competitive land environment means that you're not going to be farming the farm that your family's head in case rent cash rented for the last 20 years. 02:08 Maybe you're only gonna have for the next two. We'll start off with Chad. You've got a lot to say on this subject. It was one of the first things I did when I came to your 02:14 farmer Madison, Alabama Chad I said, there's a development sign right over there and they're wanting like the some amazing number that 02:20 you could never pay and make it a wheat field and then there's a Housing Development right there and I said, 02:25 How do you do this? So we didn't talk about the fertility. We talked then about, you know farming in the path of progress, but what 02:31 do you do now on the fertility front? Well, you know, it's a lot of stuff that's down here. You know, I ain't gonna say that ever acre Wheat Farm is for sale, but 02:39 at some number it's always got to be for sale. And you know, you think well, I don't know why they're selling the land. Well, you know, you had never seen 02:45 people sell land for 60 and 80 and a hundred thousand dollars an acre, you know, and and that's some of what's going on for these small acreages down here and it makes it 02:54 tough and you know, I'll never you know, I've got in contracts, you know, I will not as a farmer hold you up on that because I 03:00 hope that we've got a good enough relationship that we're going to buy Farmland somewhere else, you know, that's what streaks us out. Sometimes 03:06 having to move a hundred miles or 100 fifty miles, you know to farm again because it's not always right here. 03:12 Um, and that's the different subject for another day. Yeah, by the way, we should talk about another day. But you you have you have had landlords that sold for 60 Grand 03:21 and said crap now, I gotta roll this money and they want 100 miles down the road and said but Chad I'd like you still be the operator. Yep. Yep. 03:27 So it's just like now, you know, I've got two of them now that's always like hey just start just keep looking be looking. Because people were always talking about buying just me looking because I'm gonna 03:36 go where you go if you want to go we'll go you know, so, I mean it makes you feel good inside at least they're with you know, and and so but that brings us to what we're talking about today, you know, 03:45 and and we have these discussions with the landlords, you know, like when every Year's like, well you thinking you know, and they're good 03:51 to keep us posted on what's going on, you know, because that's the worst thing will do we don't watch their line this thing. Well, you know lines kind of a three year deal for us down here. We're gonna 04:00 turn alignment when you know, what's going on, you know, maybe in concrete, you know, the next year houses Farm. 04:06 We just lost a farm over here with Willie. It's a good example. We thought was gonna lose a farm economy. Turn. You see the interest rates we watch every bit of that and 04:15 guess what happened. We still got to Pivot sitting there playing another crowd on it. So then you know last year 04:21 we didn't put a bunch of Drive fertility out. We're gonna run it on what we got stay in touch with ph and now 04:27 look what's happening and got another crop and I'm playing another crop hold so then you're like, oh hey now I got bad. That's what we're talking about. 04:33 Yeah, so that's the thing. Is that the short term mindset that well, you know what? I don't know what's gonna happen to this Farm ground. So I'm not gonna put a nickel 04:42 into it and I have seen this happen this happens by the way in family operations. That's the other one. I guess we should talk about the the sun 04:48 that's been farming it that things soon as mom and dad die. My sister's are gonna sell the place. So then they that's you know, they limp along for 04:57 11 years never putting anything into it. Well, you can't pretend that that doesn't end up coming out at the at the yield Kevin. 05:06 We're talking about development and we got a lot on this subject and let's talk about you. Same thing. You gave the example of a farm 05:12 where you have your field day. I was there and you thought that was going to be developed. Give us 05:18 that story. Yeah, it actually we farmed around a great steaks. They already had the all the survey Stakes out for the roads 05:25 and the lots and everything to go through it. The nice interest was put into dot specs to the farm. 05:34 And it was tough. I mean you couldn't there's like Chad said you couldn't put you don't use careful about how much lime because you know, when they go out there and Survey it. It's 05:43 pretty obvious. They Stakes are working around that your time's extremely limited and we was actually the 05:49 last two years before we bought the farm. We was actually Knowing multiple times during the season. We was 05:58 having to give them a value of what the crop was right, then they wanted it right then. That's one bush hog. 06:03 Bulldoze and get started and man that's hard to manage like it. And unfortunately that was when the housing crisis hit and 06:13 you know, they lost her buyers kind of like what interest rates are doing right now at slow things down rapidly. They got scared and then 06:19 the next thing I know the landowner had done about the track of land because he thought he had that one sold in it, you know, he was getting in a 06:28 bind and he come to me and he offered it and it was kind of a funny story. We bought it a couple years before that. We bought it 06:37 that year and shook hands on it. And I got up the road and the guy called me and he backed out. He said man, I can't sell it that she pays more acres 06:46 are not realize I said man, we should it's a done deal went no ain't no backing out on this and he backed 06:52 out. Well then about a year and a half later. He called me and he had got himself in a little bit of a jam. He could have been out on a 07:01 track land that he knew what get. Well he got me it and So he called me and I bought it $1,000 acre less than what I had about four year and a half before say coming. I like 07:11 it. I like it. So talk about the fertility. We'll come back to that. I want to hear about what you doing fertility, but real quick, man, your situations a little different. It's not because of bulldozers 07:20 rolling to turn it into a Housing Development or extend the Madison. I'm sorry the Huntsville Airport yours is more just kind of like more like we're around me. 07:29 It's competitive environment for Farm ground even for rent. In fact, they're doing in some places in the midwest. They do rent auctions. 07:37 yeah, and actually we've won some rhinoc since before and we've lost some reactions and some of those this year have gone up to you know, 558 an 07:44 Acres, so When you're in a situation like that. you know, you have to be careful about managing your margins and we use kind of a standard formula about how we figure that rental rate, 07:55 but you can't you don't have the ability, you know, even if you take something like line like Chad's talking about which is, you know, probably for us one of 08:03 the more reactive fertility things that we do because it can take just for example, you know, like nine pounds of dap to move. 08:11 our soil phosphorous levels want you know one point so The typical, you know dry spread and and type situation just doesn't work in 08:23 that environment. Now if you own ground that's a different different thing or you have a long-term contract but you know increasingly as landlords 08:29 pass away as older landlords pass away in their heirs take over. You know, they've either turned to management companies or landed auctions 08:37 and and you have to adapt your management style to that. All right. Let's go back to adapting your style Chad. You 08:45 gave the example you thought it wasn't going to be yours and next thing, you know, you're still farming it. There's nature you had 08:51 at least three or four more crops off. But then then what you'd have thought so you'd have been cutting your own throat. If you did 08:57 it put some fertility to it. What did you do? And how do you make sure that you're I get it? We don't want to we don't want to make it the greatest Farm ground 09:06 ever just to have houses on top. But you also in the short term, you've got to get four more crops out of it. What do you do? Well, so this is this is when when it comes 09:15 in to being part of a peer group, you know, and I'm I'm gonna give extreme agapload here, you know, because we're part 09:21 of extreme egg, but, you know any peer group or any local peer group of guys, you know, they can get together for Farmers, you know, and that's hook, you know, these other guys 09:30 from all different parts area will tell you that farmers getting together and talk about what they do in the same area that don't happen. 09:36 That's just not gonna happen. You know, we're not gonna talk about my rent bases now with other farmers 09:41 Know and that's a lot of things that happen with with Farmers. But what we do is 09:46 Is we've learned how to feed the plant, you know like Matt was talking about, you know, on the part of having, you know, can can put lime out or having doubt where 09:55 it takes takes so many pounds to move it one point. We need to move it 20 points, you know, so, you know, that's that's what we 10:01 do. We've learned how to put k out and how do put phosphorus out how to use phosphorus solubilizers. You know, we use everything, 10:10 it's Bandy, you know, there ain't much dry fertilizer spread, you know, but it but what we have learned is to get in that budget. Let's say 10:19 you're corn fertility budget was gonna be a smooth hundred books of dry fertilizer pre-plant. Okay, just for instance just say it was a hundred. Well that 10:28 that we need to keep that base down to somewhere around 40 to 50. We're gonna cut that in half is what my theory is we cut that in half and we just 10:37 shake it off and then we use the rest of it liquid that way we're not Manning if you will as much, you know, we're still putting that put that out there putting that out there putting that 10:46 out there but not putting that full load out. We're gonna use that other 50 books and stuff. That's right here right 10:52 now material you like what this this kind of Chad means more info more next to the plant and then this modes the question 11:01 all the above more all the above. You know, it's it's it's I I'm on budget this much for K this much for in this much for p, you know, every bit of 11:10 it. Hey Kevin, and I know I want to hear more about the farm that you did maybe we'll use that later on I still want 11:17 to hear about the farm that you bought by the way, I think everybody's applauding He had a deal shook hands like men 11:23 do. And he's down the road and the guy backs out, son of a b****, you know, what four years later. He buys it 11:30 for a thousand dollars less than the shook hands on. I think that's a nice little Redemption story. That's it. Hey, 11:38 We talked about how extreme AG, you know, we're doing a whole bunch of really cool stuff. And we got our companies like agril liquid and Natures as our partners and we're using stuff and and putting 11:47 it right there where the plant needs it. And then you talked about the capstan AG system where they're Sure 11:53 Shot the system on the back your plan or where it's really so precise put into fertility and the Biologicals and inputs forever needs to be doesn't this 12:02 whole conversation sort of talk about and point out to how much more valuable a system like 12:11 Camp Stan Ag and all these products. We're talking about Majors Agra liquid, you know, ProForm all that. 12:17 Instead of just flinging stuff out over that field. You're only going to have this maybe for another year or two. Let's make sure that we take care of the plant period doesn't 12:26 that kind of go together with this whole precision? It is and it's the actually select shot is the it's a product of capstan makes for 12:35 the Planters. Wait a minute. What did I call it Sure Shot, I believe. Okay so selection. Yeah, I like your shot better. Yeah, 12:41 I can't help but that ain't our decision there but But no, you know chance. I guess before we started extreme, I guess something 12:53 that we found and we was all up here together and then we decided to share with other Growers with extreme egg, but 13:00 the key issue is we're we're farming the plants now instead of the Acres. We are focused on the needs and nutritional needs 13:11 of that plant. And the goal is to figure out the most effective way to get those nutrients from the soil into the 13:19 plant and for us and Chad and I mostly we're limited on what our soul has to start with. Compared to what Matt would have or other areas 13:31 of the United States? So we got a really learn how to open up that most limited factor. And banding that crop, you 13:41 know, we went away from broadcast fertilize, you know several years ago except for our small grain. We pretty much have to use it on it to a point 13:50 but On our row crops our corn and our soybeans we absolutely are banded. We're abandoned 13:58 both sides of the row. We're focused on that root Zone and we're focused on that plant. So we're going to start out with a really good liquid program up front 14:07 with that planner or you know, Chad's using the strip freshener and putting some out there. We're wanting to go that route as well. 14:16 Then then we take and we've learned so much with extreme mag. We was already doing this but we've we've been able to find tune and hone 14:25 in on those foliar products that work and the ones that are snake oil and there's there's some Cycles out there and I would say most 14:34 all level and the right situation will work. But what you want is the one that works and the majority of the situation you have environmentally and 14:43 so no one knows products those chaositates those those foliers, you know, the ortho phosphates the high grade fertilizers. No one 14:55 went to get them the you know, the Finish Line Products and Majors that Just the the calcium products agric liquids 15:03 got it. Just I mean it really stands out the microf500 and we're not you know, this podcast ain't trying to advertise from no companies. This 15:12 is what we do and how we manage it without spending a boatload of money on the soil that we know is going to get a boatload of calcium in 15:21 the form of concrete coming next and so, you know, you got to survive you got to make money in this business, but it's it's all 15:30 about you know, Zone, you know maintaining that zone and building that plant fertility and never letting that plant have a bad day. That's the key right there. We 15:41 can never let that point have a bad day and we got to stay ahead. You know our good practices that we do with our you know, our years of tissue 15:50 data that we have within the group. We want to stay ahead of that curve. You can't wait to it needs it and put it out you need to do especially these 15:59 foliers. You got to be on time or a head. You can't be at time or late. There is a difference. The whole time is prior to 16:08 the plant needing it not right at time. By the way. This is a big one and I will get to I got a soils question for Swanson and then again at times so let's go 16:17 and do the at time with Chad. We'll get the soils with Mr. Swanson. Hey Chad at time and you're you're 16:23 all about you know, you're very you do stuff when you said when I was at your farm. Hey, the guy down the road if he just wants to have an average yield. 16:32 The co-op go out and treat the stuff, but I want to get a maximum yield. 16:38 You're the send it guy you and Temple are the send it twins. You're all about if there's another treatment that'll get me four more bushels by golly and I can show 16:47 up. I'm a pencil out of payoff and we'll do it. Does this farming a piece of ground that you might only have for another year kind of run counter to 16:55 being the send it guy? Because you're all about another treatment man. Let's do this. Right? Let's go ahead and get for a maximum 17:01 yield and then this place that might end up becoming a strip center. That's not going to be your farm tomorrow. You don't know if you want to do that. So do you have two different 17:11 mindsets ones send it and one is let's hold back. No, I mean not really they really go in and so, you know because then you 17:21 have to understand it's just like Kevin come back. What what Kevin was talking about? You know, first of all, you got to understand your soul. So you 17:27 got three of us on here. Me and Kevin are pretty close. But Matt is from what I know is completely different on where his Soul's 17:33 at so every bit of this is understanding that what your soul hold and in understanding how long it takes to get into the plant. So when you understand those two things 17:42 then all that does move your timeline up because all this is about a time but it ain't about like, oh, I'm gonna get it on when I 17:48 whenever it gets back to it now Circle back around. No, you can't do that. So when you're doing what we're talking about and you're cutting 17:54 that drive fertilizer down to 25% or or something like that, you know, then you have to be more more timely than 18:04 What you would have been because then we're treating for each product, you know, and and 18:10 that's when it that's when it starts starts starts getting real you. Yes, the start paying attention to your peas and accused which which you know, first of all we got to talk about, 18:19 you know, and and it's hard to line but First thing is pH first. Okay, then that's gonna open another whole door. But you're when your 18:27 pH is right, then it your nutrients are available. I rented a farm a couple years ago, man, and fertility was 18:33 great on it. The pH was all black. 20% that's why the fertility was great because the pH was so far off that everything just sit right there, which was 18:44 good for me because all we did fix a ph and open up the fertility that doesn't mean to put out. So pH is number one when you understand pH and you understand where you for 18:53 what crop? What's your pH number is then you're just opening those doors up. So you're gonna have to figure out in a way of calcium or some kind of 19:02 line. You've got it. Make sure your pH stays right first. And then understand it and then you can take off you can do whatever you do 19:09 because you're gonna open up the fertility. Hey, so I just was thinking there about the send it and I just like to talk about you until being the send it 19:18 twins. But almost if if you don't have the bank, let's just say because the bank would be going out and fling them as a dry fertilizer out there. 19:27 Maybe you do have to be more about send it at the critical time is what you're kind of telling me because now I don't have this bank. That's right. 19:36 And you know too everything I do is off of the budget. Okay, so I understand even in my content stuff. I have a budget go now it might surpass it. But I 19:45 have a budget goal in my so everything on each piece of arm ground is off of a budget. So if I have again just that Hundred Acre hundred dollar whatever budget I'm gonna set 19:54 aside this much for dry this much, but I'm gonna spend that hundred. You know, so I just got to figure out where I'm 20:01 gonna put everything in the middle of that now and if I know I'm not gonna have it that dry is going all way to zero. Yeah, and then I 20:07 can do it on 50 because I was just gonna spend 50 on it. Anyway. Yeah, so right if right if drag goes over to zero because you think I 20:16 may only have another couple years then you can reapportion that budget like why drops or something like 20:22 that? That's right. I may make another wide drop pass. You know according to what the weather is, but the farm he song about guys when his first started the farming Stone, but we had we put 20:31 five crops on it didn't put any this is five crops in three years didn't put any fur dry fertilizer out. We really honed in on alignment even went out there and spread a little bit of 20:40 lime and just small areas a small amounts of land and and really honed in on it and when we hold it on it the last year we made 175 bushel corn. I had 175 20:49 dollars inputs in it. And that's when you that's when you feel like you know, what I've accomplished something. Yeah, I think we take that return 20:58 all day long. I'm soils all this thing about mining. First off. Is it real every coffee shop talk? I've heard 21:06 for the last benefit since I was a kid. Well, yeah guys out there bidding up cash rent but he won't spend nothing on fertilizer. He's just gonna mine that ground and they're not 21:15 old widow's gonna have a depleted Farm. I've been here in this for a long time. Is it really happened? 21:22 So it does have and in our soils, it takes a while for that to happen and you can if the guy is doing a good job of managing other things 21:32 like Chad's talking about pH like, you know managing how much carbon he has in the soil. Depending on the nutrient and how much you're actually 21:41 getting to release from the parent material and Market, you know situation with Chad would be a little bit different but it's the same concept. 21:47 You you can actually you can 100% not spread any dry and have levels improved where I'm from. Anyway, if you're doing a good job managing the other things. 21:57 But it definitely does happen Okay, so mining mining of the soil does happen. You've seen it and then it takes 22:06 a long time. If you got it richer soil to do that. Obviously if you're in if you're in the prairie of Champagne, Illinois, 22:12 you can go out there and Coast for a while. Whereas we're these guys are the souls will lighter Etc 22:18 when you look at a soil map because you do that, how can you tell other than okay things seem low what you look 22:27 at? Well, I mean like jazz had about the first thing if we've got a good map is you're gonna look and see what soul types 22:34 are. Right? I mean you have handful of soil types that are gonna be your flat and black stuff that are gonna be very productive and have a lot of residual nutrition if that's 22:43 what you want to call it. And then you're gonna have a handful that are gonna be either eroded or 22:49 Or something like erosion or they're just not as Rich to start with they were a Timber soil in the past. 22:54 That are not going to be as naturally fertile, and it's also going to give you. a clue about how deep it is, you know if we have a certain soil 23:02 type usually that dark black soil is five to six feet deep if it hasn't been heavily worked or it's so you have a huge supply of 23:14 nutrition there and we're only pulling, you know, you're only pulling the sole sample at most 24 inches. Yeah. Most guys are six to eight. So you're missing 23:23 all of that nutrition down there. And that's when you say guys build soils over time without Drive fertility. What they're doing is 23:29 they're getting Roots down deep enough, especially with tile drainage to pull nutrients from down low and then 23:35 depositing them back on top with the residue. So that's that's how that happens. 23:40 But that's kind of what we're looking at. And then you go to pH like Chad says and then you look at the fertility after that. 23:46 Hey on this whole thing because the person is listening says all right, I get it. You guys are doing this the right way Etc. What's the big thing that they need 23:55 to know? What's the concern? What can you get wrong? Like Chad or Kevin for sure. When did 24:01 you do you have an example of we thought really gonna have it for a year or two? So we changed our methods and this happened or we 24:10 learned that so give me some examples where you got something right or got something wrong. Sounds like you got something right Chad on on 24:16 getting five crops in two years or three years and and didn't lose any yield. 24:24 Okay, so I'll go first for that with and it'll be real quick. I hope but um So the things you do the things you can do wrong is 24:33 think that it's a one-size-fits-all. That's the first thing you can do wrong is you got three guys on here and I promise you and it's 24:42 it's definitely it's it's a Farm by Farm basis and even deeper than that. It's like Matt said it's a field by field basis. It's a it's a soil type my soul type basis 24:51 and on some of it. I mean, you can't go out there and I'm gonna do this on this soil type. I'm gonna do it, but you have take those averages like he was talking about 24:57 and figure out what that is and play by those averages. So thinking that I'm gonna just go do this and I've got to drive program, you know, a no fertility. How about this? Let's call it a 25:06 no fertility program. I got no fertility program that I'm gonna feed the plant and what I like to say is I put it on 25:12 a liquid diet. That's what I like say all times. I'm gonna put this far more liquid that you know, it's man says hey, I'm gonna rent this farm 25:18 for somebody. I just want somebody granted one year because what we talked about here is in our area if a phone if somebody buys 25:24 it and then it comes off of current use, Texas to Texas for building. It's about 20% difference. So 25:33 yeah. Yeah, you know Just do something with it Plant weed on it do something because to keep it in current use because they're wearing my butt 25:42 out in taxes. Yeah, by the way what but there might be somebody listening. It's like wait, wait what he just described. It's kind of zoning issue really? It's a tax the tax 25:51 base as agricultural land versus tax base as commercial development is going to kill the investor or owner financially. So 26:00 the point you're making is they maybe don't care as much about return from you renting it. They just say make it a field. 26:09 So until the bulldozers roll. I don't have to pay these taxes, right? Yes. Yes, that's right. And so the end was like cable thing you're working around their stops. Then 26:18 you're being courteous to their interests. Hey, you're laying off of this right here. You're keeping it. You know, you would maintain it to same 26:24 way as you was a productive Farm like like Matt wood or you where you're live at to where you're gonna keep in the farm, but you 26:30 just maintain it in a different way. So, you know, we've learned in our areas to work around me things because I still need to 26:36 farm for living. And tell you the truth sometimes as some of the best money we've made because again, this is not about making bushels. It's 26:42 about making money. We got to make a crop, you know, we'll get to the next crop and but that's one of the things you do is think that don't 26:50 Don't think as a farmer. Let's just do this don't think it's a follower because they're going to develop it in three years. I'm not 26:56 gonna farm that piece anymore. It's just not worth it. No, no change your mindset put it on a liquid diet and let's 27:02 talk through it. Let's work through it. And let's let you keep farming and making money because like Kevin happened to him like having me 27:08 they think they come development that don't always happen. It just don't always happen until the bulldozer roll 27:14 in and I got Farms. I work around the bulldozers. I'm just you know, they don't they're not gonna develop 600 acres at one time. 27:21 You know, but yeah, that's another good point first off liquid diet. Secondly, you can still maintain fertility. Thirdly. You're not being a bad guy fourthly the owner that 27:30 you're working with might just might even take a little bit of a deduct on what you're paying them because you say because you're saving all that massive amounts of taxes that they'd 27:39 be paying if it was zoned as commercial development Okay, Kevin, you're shaking your head. What do you one more 27:45 thing for Kevin takes out. Sorry, but but Kevin talk too about, you know about ADM unless about the fact that having 27:51 to keep something on the land. If not, they got to sell it down. Yeah, that's right. I got a lot. 27:58 Rosen control has to have something growing on or if it's about if it's development property. Yes. Yeah. Well if it goes from agriculture, it's going to go to development whether it's residential 28:07 commercial. And you know if it goes commercial but they got to have something growing on it cannot I mean even yeah, I got a friend that's real big into seating business and his 28:17 biggest year. His biggest time of year is December and they shut these jobs down till March and they pay 28:26 them their seed to hold job and then coming in March and they kill it and start all over again because they can't leave it idle. 28:32 If you're not working. It's got to be so for road control, but the as far as mistakes that 28:38 that I've made with it the biggest mistake I made I must guilty is any and I see a lot of neighbors do it. I mean, I know some doing it to that right now today is 28:47 um, we'll back off on not putting on some of this land and I used to think it was right thing. I got a farm over and the city 28:56 limits and Western Salem And very high dollar ground just like what Chad has there and Huntsville. 29:04 you you just can't imagine them as some of itself would require foot but We held up on putting lime on it and it's been 29:13 a mistake. It's cost me money Damien. I mean I'd have been way, you know as far as going out and putting a bunch of pee and K out trying to build the 29:22 soil phosphorous levels and potassium levels that would be stupid to do when you know, it's going into development but you got to manage that 29:31 PK. I mean that pH so that you can have at P&K available and all those micro you nutrients available and that's something that 29:40 Chad talked about earlier is really important. We're gonna have some cost associated in that but that right. There'll make you money. It will make you money. Every time I think 29:49 it's not maintain yours your line. I think it's funny because one of the first things when I bought my first chunk of farm ground and the deal was okay. Here's 29:58 the red or here's the deal. Here's the arrangement between you and your tenant but who pays the line and you know, okay. Well, that's a five-year thing. Now if I'm 30:07 gonna be paying for Lyme, I want to know I'm Farmer at five years now and you guys are both just said it might also be a one 30:13 or two year thing because thinking that you're not going to get the value out of the line Chad said he put out line in small 30:19 dabs and still it made all the nutrients more available. So the whole lime thing is critical whether it's five or ten years down the road. 30:27 Very much and that's one of the biggest things that I see is, you know. Number one lots of times the wrong 30:37 line sources used and we don't want that can be a whole source for another podcast. We don't want to get into that. But the 30:43 good rule of thumb you're closest lime source is usually the wrong line Source. That's the best for the thumb I got for you. Would you just say I'm writing this down for a topic. 30:52 The closest line source is normally the wrong line Source Bank. I see it ain't 100% guilty because 31:01 I'm trying to spread line plant wheat finished getting the crop out and I'm 100% guilty most time and I'm trying to figure out how to fix it with other stuff. If we 31:10 but you just can't the white truck it is you can't get it truck to 150 miles and that's the one I need you. Yeah, we're doing it. I mean we've learned 31:19 it just takes so much less because we're using the right line. I mean, it's just it works. You know, 31:25 what's interesting Beach, South Carolina. I always hear I mean white stone down there true calsetic lime basically sea 31:31 shells crushed up. I guess I want to go calcium. I want to go to swans for a question, but I got to tell you listeners. If you're with this first off, I think there's gonna be 31:40 the one best listen one of the best listen to podcasts that we are put out in 2023 and I really do because it's a topic everybody can 31:46 relate to whether it's competitive cash rent like Swanson and I are talking about Huntsville Airport expanding like jazz talking 31:52 about or all the Yankees moving to North Carolina and the adkin river valley like Kevin's talking about everybody has this issue 31:58 in some fashion. So I love it. But you know what listeners if you want to say what's Damian chuckling about every time the boys say something in passing. 32:08 That it my ears perk up like wait a minute. There's another podcast episode. I just wrote down. Are you using the right lime? And then I wrote down the closest lime 32:17 source is probably the wrong lime Source. We will be covering this in 2023. I promise you because I just 32:23 got it written down right there. Hey, man. Does this boat does this an illustration? Kelly Garrett said once he said I think we're gonna find 32:34 out down the road that we've got more than enough fertility in most cases in the traditional sense. Meaning we've been flinging in p and K 32:40 out there because that's what we knew how to do and we're gonna find out as we get better at this we stuff like extreme AG 32:46 that we've been doing too much of it. Is that kind of over here that fling and fling and dry fertilizer all over the 32:52 place has been what we did because what we knew how to do but it really is almost like that's never been our limiting factor with what Chad and Kevin are talking about I think in for 33:01 Souls like Kevin and I or Kevin Kelly and I have especially that that's a hundred percent true. I think there's definitely a 33:09 Some money to be made in in just shifting dollars total fertility budget including line, especially on soils like 33:18 we have the other thing. I was thinking about why they were talking Damien is that is a lot of this putting it on liquid diet. All these 33:25 things. Not only does it apply in these situations, but it also replies kind of in the reverse of these situations, right? So if you have a farm that's badly depleted for 33:34 whatever reason. You're gonna have to do a lot of the same things. We're talking about to make sure you're making money in the short term so you can afford to build it up in the 33:42 long term. so It does this kind of works both ways and that you know, if we have a farm, let's take I can think of one right now where we've got six parts 33:50 per million of phosphorus. Okay on that farm. You're not going to be able to put enough dry out there. To make that profitable for a few years you're gonna have to 34:00 shift that to a liquid phosphorus highly available phosphorus source to get through, you know, two or three years you're basically saying there's there's some situations where 34:09 you know, because there's the other one that love people are thinking about the place has been so possibly gonna 34:15 get developed for the last decade that finally there was a change of ownership whatever and they come to Chad and say we just need it to be classified as 34:24 AG ground. He hasn't even been the operator. He gets a hold of it is like yeah, I'll do it. 34:31 Jesus this thing has no fertility to other words. It's not even been him. That's farming. It's just that he's the replacement guy until Walmart gets built right and 34:40 then you're looking at Matt and saying holy crap. There's nothing been put on this for 15 years. Is that 34:46 kind of what we're talking about? And I mean, that's exactly what I'm talking about. If you would understand dry if you went out dry out there it wouldn't 34:52 even matter. That it wouldn't especially here what you would have enough time. You could fling you could fling it out there. It's like you've got so much catching up to do. So, then it becomes 35:02 you've got a really do that liquid diet. You've got to manage the plants for the plants and and spend extra money when you can working on the soil that you know, if you're gonna buy it 35:11 or something like that by the way Chad if you had one of those I just thought of that where you got a hold of something that's because we've 35:17 we've seen that. Oh that's going to turn into housing for the last 15 years. Somebody was out there just absolutely depleting it and 35:26 then they say, well it's not housing yet. You want to farm for the next three years and you're like, this is a turd. 35:32 Yeah, it's a former daddy worked. A problem. That's a disclaimer. Please don't put this out right here. Good thing 35:40 is your dead president. Listen to our stuff. Yeah, so, you know, no that's that was a joke. I promise you that was a joke, but you remember that, you know, 35:49 the people before us come through the 80s. Okay, you know, it was Farmers that just, you know, the ones of us that are farming like I've been blessed to have a have that have it. 35:58 I like to call it a crutch, you know, because my dad didn't made it I didn't have start this thing. So I have a crutch I can 36:04 do I can be the send it guy because of what they feel and that's why I am listening to God because they built this thing 36:10 for me to be able to do that. So let's get that disclaimer out of the way. Now next part man is a hundred percent, 36:16 correct, you know we talk about this all the time about being triggers, you know, we use this liquid to be a trigger if Matt 36:22 has one at six parts phosphorus, he'll be broke before he ever gets Fosters in the plan. I mean, it's it's we can't do it. So you have to get that happy medium of 36:31 hey, I can treat this much Drive fertilizer and then I'm gonna as much liquid because there ain't no way to keep 36:37 and and a hundred percent good point from him that this is the way around I had one Farm five years ago. I was gonna prove a point and that you 36:46 could not buy 400 bushel blend because I paid for it like there's one spot in the field that we spread like 1400 pounds of fertilizer to 36:55 the acre. And this is grounded we Farm but we're trying to prove a point. And do you know that we have that was they said? 37:02 Oh, well next year's gonna be amazing. Well, next year's gonna be amazed when I was four years ago, and I still can't find no tissues on a soul sample. That's the 37:08 point. We're trying to make it's blowing all this if you could buy 400 bushel blend everybody back. They're running their Co-op. They buy it with all spread it. We always making corn life 37:17 would be great. You can't buy this stuff we're talking about so I just you put out fertilizer and then you wonder what's 37:25 hindered in your Soul's mad Souls Kevin souls, and then you start trickling along to make it a trigger to pick up the nutrients it needs. 37:33 I gotta say Kevin it was you and Swanson that came up with this topic and I'm telling you it's already my favorite episode of 2023. I'm digging this. 37:42 It's okay. It's it's a first one we recorded granted, but it's my favorite. So anyway dig this I think 37:52 it's I mean, I'm getting really Illustrated here in my head. It's kind of like the kid that's been malnourished for like 15 37:58 years and then sitting down a plate and trying to give an entire Smorgasbord of good nutritions. Like that's a nice gesture but you got 38:07 15 years of of making up to do and so you can't do it and then that's what you're talking about. You can't drive fertilized fast 38:16 enough to make up for 15 years of depletion was what Matt and chatter saying but I won't point out this Kevin and then we got close out with your story about that property. 38:25 isn't that the cool thing about the companies we're working with with all these things and then putting it in Furrow and two by 38:31 two and all that you can actually Get a crop off of that poor malnutrition soil that hasn't been taken care of for 15 years better 38:41 than you ever could have because again in the old if the old way of fixing it was fling more dry fertilizer chatter approved. It don't work don't we have a better 38:50 Tools in our Arsenal now than we ever have to get some plant. And some productivity and some profit out of a depleted 38:58 soil. Yeah, I mean, there's no question and you know, there's so many. 39:03 And it's not just buying, you know, a nutritional product is much as these Biologicals and humexfobics. 39:13 Some synthetics that are made that are actually released and and nutrients that we have in the soul. So there's all kinds of different options out 39:22 there the, you know the ability to break down the Stover that we had now, there's so many tools there that we didn't have before we're you know, 39:31 some of them my question, you know the extract, you know, that's that's a good product but I did to test last year putting it in knife in 39:40 an underground and and it didn't perform here as well as it did spraying across top. So, you know, we're learning that's part of extreme egg. We got so many 39:49 multiple tests going on to learn this. And that it makes a lot of fun. So, you know the ground that we bought down there. 39:58 that it was pitiful, you know that it was about a it was about a point four organic matter was about what was left on it in the cast and 40:08 the migration on it was just absolutely terrible. It's pretty much just clay to make bricks out of agronomist from Israel come and 40:17 he was out there walking in it Drilling and I ain't gonna say on the podcast what he asked but other than what is it? He had to put some adjectives in 40:26 there because he was very disappointed. He had flew from Israel always to this cornfield and he thought he was going to see this beautiful souls that he had 40:35 read about Midwest and it was Play with it Kevin did Israeli swear words to his real Israeli? Swear words translate to English 40:43 pretty easily. He was speaking in English so I can understand he wanted me to know what he he just spent 20 hours in Flight getting here. So he was a he 40:52 definitely was disappointed with me, but when he seemed to yields he was even then he didn't know what to do. He was trying to figure things out but with our 41:01 native film drip irrigation on that farm, We kept something growing on what continuously whether it was corn soybeans barley wheat cover crops. I 41:10 mean, it's never it's not when a month without something growing. So we've had that farm. 41:18 10 plus years now Our organic matter now is over three percent. Our calcium migration show is now eight is about 41:26 eight to one. Our irrigation water when we first started it is all we could do to get our lateral lines 41:35 of 48 centers to meet in the middle. You'd almost see the soybeans favor the drip tape now, you don't see any of that 41:44 before we would have to run four or five hours on the zone. Now, we're running two hours on peak time real dry 41:53 weather. We might go to three the flocculation in the soil from all the all the dead roots and that has 42:03 decayed you got capillaries everywhere in that soil profile now. so 42:10 You can take crappy ground and make good ground out of it. If you got the right program, it takes the right it takes water to right time. 42:19 I mean if you're in a drought, I mean Chad and I are the biggest limiting factor that Chad and I have is when it quits raining, we're 12 days away from a drought. Yeah, 42:28 that's our biggest problem. So the irrigation makes up for that. But then how do you change him heavy clay soles that we got and the no-till 42:37 is phenomenal these big grass crops with these fibrous root systems in them huge deal. 42:44 And you know getting at casting the migration correct? Yeah, we was actually. We was like one part casting three parts mag to 42:54 start with that is bad. That is bad. I mean, that is you don't you can't take Damian you couldn't take a 16 penny nail 43:03 and push it in the ground unless it was just raining. The rest time you had to have a hammer to drive it in the ground and now you can just go out there and just push 43:13 it right in by the way. I've been on that property. It was my first trip to North Carolina to Kevin's not my first 43:19 trip North Carolina my first trip to Kevin's and we got ringed out while we're shooting videos and we went and stood in the irrigation shed. And 43:25 then he started telling me there's probably cottonmouth in this this thing right behind me and I I 43:31 want student to rain because I'm terrified of snakes. Okay. It was a black snake in there though quickly terrified 43:37 of all snakes. Hey, you said it took how long until you think you started really seeing progress four years five years actually when 43:46 we got what's you know, we the irrigation was the key. Then we really started focusing on our Gibson and then 43:56 our poetry litter and then when we got a really good calcitic lime Source, we switched from the Gypsum to the calsetic line and also 44:05 that layer letters high calcium as well. That it really turned around about the three years into it when we started seeing stuff and 44:14 then by the fifth year is when we really noticed not needing as much water when we irrigated and our organic 44:20 matter. We was in that two point three range, then which was pretty impressive to go from myself sub one to that. And then now 44:29 we're you know over three and the cool thing about it is our insurance aph on that farm is over a hundred bushels on soybeans and over 300 bushels 44:38 on corn that's pretty impressive. That's a great story about taking what was kind of a turd that you almost that you are mad. You didn't get bought and 44:47 you bought it for a thousand dollars cheaper. That's a great story. You know what I know. I wasn't mad. I didn't get it all I was 44:53 actually glad I didn't have to figure out where I was gonna get the money to pay for it, but I was disappointed that I 44:59 did it. All right just disappointed. I know we're getting I know we're getting along here, but it's a great subject chat. I want to go to one. Um, I observed this the first time I was at your property and 45:08 This is a compliment to you that I probably should have given a long time ago. I think that farming in the path of progress and I know that that's what 45:17 that's always termed as not the not that the four of us necessarily think a bunch of Walmarts are progress. But the point is you're farming right there on the edge of town. You 45:26 could have picked up stakes and said screw this I want to go and farm where there's real farmer to be done. But I think it's made you better because I think it's made you really really dial 45:35 in like hey if I only have this for two years, but I can make a bunch of money still and it's not just by going on raping it. It's by actually just managing it. 45:44 Is it made you better? Well, you know, I think so, you know, I you know, I get to to her around with extreme AG, you 45:52 know, we get to talk to other farmers and and we always learn more. I feel like I always learn more from the farmers that I get talked to 45:58 then I get then I feel like I can give to them, you know, they're in good soils, you know like Matt, you know, and and you know, 46:04 I say this, you know, you hear me joke about our states all the time, especially with you Damian, you know, but everybody has their own problem, you know, just because you got real good Souls 46:13 don't mean that that laughs Grant. I mean here you are come out for 500 acre rent, you know you yeah, I mean, 46:22 what am I supposed to do with that? So we all have our own problems? You know, it's just all about making a living and getting 46:28 through it and each thing dials the scene to be more if you have five hundred dollar acre rent. I promise you you're budgeting skills are way more dialed in than mine is so we all 46:37 we all adapt as Farmers, you know, and and we're all fishing in every way we can be because of what we've been put in and put out of in a 46:46 situations that we've got ourselves into or been dropped into so yeah, I think I think we're better at honing in on the soils because of we've learned 46:55 over the years. We have learned Arts as well as took us anywhere from 10 to 15 years to come from a less than 1% organic matter up to a 2.8 47:04 to 3.5 organic matter and we've done that with incorporate and all this spotter back into the soul, you know, so we've learned 47:13 a lot and and we've got better farming, you know as a whole country has and so, you know, it's just but my point about managing fertility for the short term, I 47:22 think it's gotten you better about really the Precision part of hey, this might be a Housing Development two years, but I still got it for 47:31 the next for the next two years. I'm gonna make as much money as I can off this and I'm not going to rape it. I'm gonna treat it. I mean well that 47:37 you're you're really about putting that utility that And you know that has taught me that's taught me on our you know, our contest of is we call it contest, you know or irrigated 47:47 Farms are good Farms that we've owned. It's taught me so much about plate plant like Matt with somebody early feeding the 47:53 plant. It's taught us how to feed the plant when we go with these liquid diets. So, you know don't think that that it's all bad because like you said Damian it has taught you 48:02 a lot. All right. Close us out here Matt Swanson managing fertility for the short term. What did we not cover that you think 48:09 we need to on the way out the door? Well, I mean I'd say again just I don't know that we didn't cover anything. I think the big points are is you got to manage your 48:17 pH because that makes what's there more available? You need to make sure you got good water whether for me that's water infiltration or for Kevin. Maybe 48:28 that's an irrigation situation or or something else. And then one other thing that the Chad talked about that hit me while he was talking was. 48:36 You know we talked about going out and just you can't put enough money into it or or you can't spread enough 48:42 dry and I can tell you that in situations where we tried it something similar to what Chad has done, you know with potash specifically we've gone out twice and done, you 48:51 know, five to six hundred pounds of potash to try to either bring levels up or makes or make nutrients more available and what we've actually found via soil 49:00 testing is it's brought our nutrient availability down in potassium specifically, so like anything 49:06 it's a it's a system and anytime you get crazy with one thing or another it generally is not a good thing. Yeah, thank. 49:14 But what you just said is you're saying by over dry by just doing that thing sending sending the train sending the train load of dry fertilizer out there thinking you're going 49:23 to fix something fast. It didn't work. I don't know. It actually went backwards. It actually did yes or Soul test levels our standard Soul test levels got higher our potassium 49:32 availability for the crop went down. So so anything we do whether it's dry our liquid we jump to all this is jumped on the drive fertilizer wagon here 49:41 pretty heavy in his podcast. But whatever you do dry or liquid is still about salt index. So just remember that that's what 49:47 that's what drove it down is what Matt will talk to you about, you know, is is everything we do is about salt index in that 49:53 zone and you're salt and makes you can handle if your soul thicker or you can handle less of your soul Center. So understanding where 49:59 you're at in your farm and your field with a salt index that you're going to apply it won't particular time. Is key that's where we're gonna 50:08 leave it right there. That's all amazingly good stuff because managing fertility for the short term doesn't mean you're out there raping the ground. It 50:14 means you're you're gonna just do what you can to make the maximum profit off of your plants. And and I think that Kevin said 50:20 it best you got to get to where you realize we're not farming Acres. We're farming plants. We're that's what we're out here doing and we're 50:26 getting better about that but it does obviously have the soil component to it Matt Swanson Western, Illinois, Kevin Matthews 50:32 and Chad Henderson to the founding members of extreme mag. You're gonna be seeing a lot of us in 2023 so things for being here share this with somebody that can benefit from 50:41 it. Thanks for being a listener and a viewer the next time I'm dating Mason for cutting the Curve. 50:46 Thanks for listening to another edition of cutting the curve for more information that you can apply to your farm operation. Visit extreme mag dot Farm are your 50:55 crops dressed out AG Explorer has you covered with a full line of products to help protect your crop from environmental stressors such as cold and wet or heat 51:04 and drought check out AC explorer.com and start protecting your yields and profits.