00:00 Ready for some straight talk on sustainability programs that pay you. Got it. In this episode of Extreme Ag, cutting the Curve, 00:07 Welcome to Extreme Ag Cutting the Curve podcast where real farmers share real insights and real results to help you improve your farming operation. 00:16 This episode of Cutting the Curve is brought to you by cloth where machines aren't just made, they're made for more 00:23 with a wide range of tractors, combines, forger and hay tools. Cloth is a family business just as driven, demanding, 00:30 and dedicated as yours. Go to cloth.com and start cutting your curve with their cutting edge equipment. 00:36 And now here's your host, Damien Mason. Hey there. Welcome to another fantastic episode of Extreme Ice. 00:42 Cutting the Curve. I got Johnny Burrell, Jackson, Tennessee Farmer, uh, progressive forward thinking. I've been to his farm, very impressive. 00:50 He's been no telling for since 1991. To put this in perspective and to say he's ahead of the curve is, uh, 00:58 well maybe putting it lightly, but the point here is there's these sustainability programs. You've heard about them, you've read about them, 01:04 you've heard some chatter. You've got your antenna up and you think, I'm not sure if I really believe in some of this stuff. 01:09 We're gonna give you straight scoop on this because the heck of it is, while Johnny and the Rell people down there have been no tilling 01:15 for 30 plus years, they just started getting paid for some of their practices. Now yes, there are sustainability, sustainability programs 01:23 that will put money in your hot little hand based on your past practices. Also for the documentation that you do 01:32 to verify these things. You see, we're gonna pull the curtain back and let you know how all this works. 01:38 Simplify it so you can start making money. And what is going to be a potentially financially belt tightening year. 01:45 This might be a chance for you to add margin to acres doing for doing stuff that you're already doing. 01:49 Johnny, give me the, I gave you the opening there. Kind of give me the scoop. Yeah, so everybody's been hearing about sustainability 01:58 for the last several years and you know, farmers have been sustainable for a while if we've been in business. 02:02 You know, I think it's pretty obvious most farmers have figured out how to be sustainable, like you said in the opening s there, we, my dad 02:09 and granddad started no-tilling back in the early nineties and we transitioned into a full scale, no-till operation. 02:15 And you know, things have changed over time. We've added more sustainability things like early two thousands we started variable rate fertilize when I was in 02:24 college, that's kind of what I learned how to do, how to write prescriptions and understand the, the tools you needed to make that work. 02:30 So we kind of transitioned into that. And You variable, you, you variable rated fertilizer 20 years ago. 02:36 Uh, and there's still folks that were telling 'em this is really something you should look into for yield for environmental purposes, 02:43 but more importantly for your bottom line. So I think you got a pretty good handle on the variable rate. 02:48 Would you, were you doing that, uh, you said 20 plus years ago you started variable rating fertilizer and that's, that's not at time of planning. 02:55 You know, that's, that's, that's period that's on broad, broad acre application, everything. 02:59 Yeah. Yeah, we did it across every area. We started pulling grid samples in 2001. Uh, my granddad was, you know, 03:07 I guess at the time it was late seventies and he was still running the fur lodge truck. Well, we had to put computers in the trucks and put modems 03:14 and processors in the trucks and he still wanted to run the fertilized truck. So I'd actually sit in the passenger seat 03:21 and run the computer side. He would still run the fertilized truck. So it was pretty neat back then. 03:25 'cause he was a believer in it, he could see how much fertilize we were saving. 'cause you're able to get over more 03:29 acres without filling up. So, you know, a farmer could see it multiple ways. But when you're sitting in the truck 03:34 and you're getting less fill up time, you being able to keep spreading 'cause you got more product in the truck still. 03:39 That really worked for us and it was just a big savings to us. And you basically went from farming a field 03:46 to farming individual fields inside that field. So there's no way you'd be more sustainable until you start breaking down a field. 03:52 And actually farming a 25 acre fill is 25 acres or 25 fields that sell. And so when I was, uh, when I first heard, 03:59 when I first started hearing about variable rate fertility, I went back from my soil judging days. 04:03 And I'm like, okay, if you're at the bottom of a rule, you know, area that's got real rich black, it's got organic matter in it versus the top, maybe that's 04:10 where you don't need it at the bottom. You don't need, you know, of the top. But the reality is, it's based on the yield, 04:15 it's based on a whole bunch of other things. CEC, water exchange, all those kind of things. And then since I worked with extreme maggi, 04:22 they start talking like, isn't someone crazy thing, like a, a corn plant only absorbs like 35% of the nitrogen 04:29 or the pea that you're putting out there. So flinging more out there doesn't make you more yield. It's, it was just flinging out money out the back 04:38 of the fertility, uh, apparatus. Right. And then, and then just like tying into that, we started getting into split applying nitrogen split, 04:45 applying other nutrients throughout the growing season to put 'em in the plant right when they need 'em versus front loading. 04:51 It could get, a rain could leach, it could volatilize, however it is. So tying into exactly what you were saying, 04:56 like things have changed over time. So you start pulling a split, a flying split, applying your nitrogen and using nitrogen stabilizers, 05:04 stuff like that, that's almost every farmer's doing now. There's programs out there that will start rewarding you 05:10 for your good farming practices, your sustainability practices on your farm. And that's one thing, you know, we kind of transitioned 05:17 to the last few years we got into conservation stewardship program, which is a, is a federal program that we're in. 05:24 And then now you're starting to open up to more and more of these programs that you hear out there through true terror through Argo. 05:29 Different ones like that, that really are gonna start rewarding a farmer for being a good steward just like they should. 05:36 And you know, sometimes you kind of get gridlock 'cause you're like, well, I can't no till anymore. I'm already no till. I can't reduce tillage there 05:43 'cause I'm already reduced all the tillage. Well then there's certain programs out there that're starting to fall into place to really let you capitalize on 05:50 what we're doing here, you know, on our farm. Yeah. So you, you're, there's this idea, and we're gonna talk about the program here in a second, 05:59 but okay, you've got a program through Arva. You're getting money from Nestle ultimately for these things. 06:05 And there's this, uh, question that the, uh, the listener is going to have. Certainly the skeptical listener. 06:12 Well, they made Johnny start doing no-till, nope, been doing it for 33 years. And then there's the one that I think is problematic. 06:19 Some programs, government programs, CRP, you know, if you had crappy ground that you grew oats in, uh, they won't let you put that in in CRP. 06:29 They punish you for having been a good steward already. The good thing about this program, it's not punishing you for having been a good steward. 06:35 You didn't have to go out and start moldboard plowing for three years to let your soil wash away then to get enrolled for switching back 06:42 to no-till you're getting rewarded for what you've already done. Variable rate, no-till split split nitrogen, 06:48 nitrogen reduction, nitrogen inhibitor, all the things that you've already, that you've been doing, you're getting, you're getting some payback for that. 06:57 Not just for the crops, not just for the benefit of the soil. You're getting a payback from the arva program. 07:04 That's right. And it, they even tie into your yield versus like your county yield average. 07:09 They'll, they'll sit there and do a baseline of what your county's doing. And then if you're coming in above your county average, 07:15 that helps you qualify too. Because that means you're being sustainable, you're increasing yields 07:20 and being sustainable, which is kind of like a double plus for 'em. So they kind of reward you for to think it outside the box 07:27 and increasing your yields, which sometimes it's hard to do when you start doing some of these things. But there's a lot 07:32 of things going on right now that allow you to do both. Kelly Garrett's big point that, uh, we're gonna be talking about Commodity Classic is 07:40 my sustainability program and my high yield program are converging. We used to think that somehow sustainability meant 07:47 that you went out there and, you know, petted butterflies and uh, and, and flinged out, flinged out some, uh, some, 07:53 some bat dung and said, oh, it's all natural, but I'll never grow anything here. And the reality is that's not true. 07:58 You can, you can see a convergence on his part where sustainability practices meaning cover crops, reduction of tillage using animals in the, in the, uh, 08:07 regenerative cycle, uh, and manure, uh, natural products, chicken, litter, you know, biological sources. 08:14 By the way, biologicals, do you use biologicals? And did that matter on getting approved for this? Yes. And I I think going forward it's going 08:22 increase your chances or increase your ranking going forward. For sure. The biological as well. 08:27 Well, about, okay. And we're gonna talk about it real quickly because the person that's wanting to know this, we're gonna have to get to that, we'll get 08:33 to the money portion of it. But yes, Johnny is in a program and he is getting paid for it. 08:38 Uh, but we're gonna talk about some of the things that you're doing. You didn't change most 08:42 of the stuff you'd already been doing. Crop rotation, reduction of nitrogen. Did you verify? I mean, or is it just saying, Hey, I use, I use products 08:50 that allow me to reduce nitrogen use, like, you know, the sound or source and kinds of things. Is, is that where you or pivot bio's progress? 08:58 Did you prove that or how did that work? Yeah, so that you actually had to prove what you've done. So you gotta have good record records being kept 09:05 and really having a good platform for all that to be used on and streamlined as big for us. 09:10 So we were using a program that was real easy for everybody to see. And you know, our nitrogen use sufficiency has really 09:17 changed in the last few years. Yeah. You know, we used to try to be 1.1 or something like that. 09:22 1.1. Now we're, you know, getting closer to hopefully closer to 0.7. So that all helps with your ranking 09:28 because once again, you're being sustainable. You're being sustainable 'cause you're putting out less could be 09:33 'cause you're doing multiple applications or you know, the nitrogen stabilizers too that a lot of people are using. 09:40 But, you know, talk about Kelly a while ago. That's Wait, wait. Is it safe to say you've cut your nitrogen, your, 09:45 your nitrogen utilization, you've cut your nitrogen application by about 40% per bushel. 09:52 Per per bushel. Yes. Yeah. About 40% less nitrogen now per bushel produced than you were just 10 years ago. 20, 10:02 Yeah. Yeah, for sure. 20 years ago for sure. And it's, it's ticked down. And then some of the biologicals we using has really helped 10:08 ramp that up and help us really, you know, curve that off quite a bit. And you were mentioning to Kelly a while ago, 10:14 that's what's been eyeopening with me. And that's what I love about extreme ag is how you get to hear what everybody's doing all across the country. 10:19 Because Kelly's been in this program for several years now. I'm just now getting into it at the 10:25 level I am in the last year. So hearing what people are doing. Yeah, sometimes it doesn't work on you, 10:31 but a lot of times there's a program out there that will fit your operation. So you've got this, uh, this program now going, 10:40 did you have to change any of, did you have to in implement any new practices this year to be eligible or was pretty much what you've already done 10:47 and proven been adequate? That's right. That's how Mr has worked this year. What I was already doing, It was based on what you've already done. 10:55 All right. The program is with a company called arva. The money comes from Nestle through arva without boring anybody. 11:03 I wanna hear how you signed up and I wanna hear about how much money it is. Before I do that, if you're listening to this episode, 11:08 I want you to, I want you to realize that our friends nature's helped it come to you. Nature's is one of our business partners. 11:15 They're focused on providing sustainable farming solutions and helping maintain the genetic potential in your crops 11:21 for today and also for future generations. Nature's high quality liquid fertilizers powered by nature's bio K can be targeted at 11:29 specific periods of influence. That's right. Whether you want the V two, V three, V six, whatever the point is, you can put this product, 11:36 their products out there in a spoon feeding sustainable fashion. So you're not just flinging out fertilizer, 11:40 you're putting it out when the crop needs it to get maximum yield. And you're also making sure it gets full 11:45 efficiency and utilization. Uh, you can do it throughout the growing season. Nature's products can help you mitigate plant stress, 11:52 enhance crop yield, and most importantly, boost your farms. ROI go to natures.com to check it out. 11:57 Uh, how'd you get signed up? How much are you making? Yeah, I had a local guy come by and talk to me about it and uh, he helped me 12:05 through the signup process through Arva. And we were using operations center, which is owned by Deere to prove all our records of our applications from fertility 12:14 to, you know, no tillage passes to, you know, all this stuff was flowing through Operation Center. So that was how we actually able to back the data up. 12:23 And then, you know, it just transitioned into what it is. And there's different payments for corn, wheat, soybeans, 12:29 rice and all that, you know, different crops out there. But for us, corn was the one that they wanted. Uh, they asked for our corn acres 12:36 and so we turned in our corn acres last year and it, it was a, it was a really good program for us. All right, so you get signed up, you pulled, you pulled, 12:44 uh, the track record basic off of operations center our off of your John Deere. So the data was already there. 12:50 And then are you in a contract that they then control you? 'cause that's the other big problem, the 12:55 skepticism in the farm belt. Well, they're gonna tell you what you have to do. What's the contract actually look like, Johnny? 13:01 Yeah, it's year to year. So this coming year, uh, they may, soybeans may be what they're wanting or wheat maybe what they're wanting. 13:08 And uh, it is sometimes tied back to carbon. So you gotta always keep that in mind which crops, you know, benefit from that the best. 13:16 But you know, this pasture, it was corn for me this coming year. I'm hoping to get maybe paid on wheat and corn. 13:21 So that would be a great deal. And then, you know, maybe there is a time where I can do the double crop corn where I'm 13:27 removing a wheat crop in a corn crop in the same year, which should be a huge, you know, benefit. You get paid. Who's the check come from? 13:35 Uh, it's, it's gonna come through Arva. It come through Arva. But ultimately they told you it's done a program that is funded by Nestle. That's 13:43 Absolutely right. Yeah. And all these big companies are out there and they're gonna partner with companies like Arva 13:49 or Tru Tera and they're gonna go out and find the acres and they're gonna get the data put in. They're gonna find the farmers that are qualified. 13:55 'cause Nestle doesn't have unlimited resources to go out there and find all these farmers all across the company. 13:59 But Tru and Arva and these other companies can go in there and they can work with local, regional, you know, people 14:06 and, and find the pockets that they're needing for the acres. Wanna go through a And so, 14:10 and you're getting about 25 bucks an acre on corn acres. That's right. And that's per year, 14:17 Per year Chance that it might go up next year. It can go up and go down, you know, it's too early. Hopefully in the next few weeks they'll know more 14:25 about what this year's gonna be. Well I think the reluctance would be from a lot of people like, well, it's only gonna be a few bucks 14:31 and it's not worth my time. Well, 25 bucks is worth your time. 'cause you didn't have, I'm looking at your 14:35 list here that you provided me. You didn't have to, it doesn't, it's not like you took a a week and a half, uh, 14:41 and devoted just to this. You pulled the stuff that's pretty much from records you already have. 14:45 Yeah. If you got good clean records the last several years, it's real easy to give 'em everything you need if you're, if you, 14:51 you don't have some type of digital record keeping software. Yeah. It could take a while to 14:55 go back and in and prove everything. But with digital record, it's easy. Okay. And, uh, you wrote on here things needed have good 15:01 data and data that's easy to get to. And I'm gonna run through this and you can just gimme a quick clarification. 15:05 Give the listener a quick clarification if it that makes sense. Uh, field boundaries, well meaning to, to the field 15:13 and acres basically is what that's about, right. Verifying. Yeah. It had the digital boundaries in it. Yep. 15:18 Soil samples makes sense. Yep. Um, and you just have to provide soil sampling data. Say, here's where our numbers are. Okay, 15:25 That's right. Water management practices. Is that you saying, here's how much I use or here's how much I irrigate. Because a lot of Yeah. 15:32 If they wanna know on this field here how much irrigation, how many inches of water you put this year, you need 15:37 to be able to supply that to 'em also. So for somebody in my part of the world where we don't really irrigate 15:41 anything, it wouldn't even be a point. Um, cropping history Makes sense. Including if you used any cover crops. Yep. 15:48 Your, uh, verification of tillage practices. How far back do you have to go on this? I think it was three years 15:54 or four years that they were wanting, Uh, nitrogen management, uh, and, and application and history of nitrogen over the last several years. 16:01 Right, right. Okay. And that's the big, and you, you also use an nitrogen stabilizer. You use nitrogen enhancers, all that stuff. 16:08 Um, your annual, your annual crop yield, uh, your pesticide application for the last three years and the volumes, your fuel consumption. 16:18 Yep. Uh, which that's kind of easy, isn't it? You kind of just divide, you know, roughly how many gallons of diesel you spend on an acre. Well, 16:26 With, with John Deere's operations center, it provides all that for you so you know exactly what you had in an acre 16:32 as far as gallons of fuel. And you wrote on here that what that help your score so that you can get picked up to maybe make some 16:39 of this money is, is being good on your yield comparative to the resources utilized helps, right. 16:46 Yeah, that's right. And then, uh, obviously improving good agronomics, uh, I think somebody that's uh, I think somebody that's, uh, excessive tillage 16:54 and some of those other things are gonna get you kicked out. Right? That's right. That's right. 16:58 Anything else on, uh, making money, on making sense, making sense off of a, off of a sustainability program? I would just try to find a good partner to partner 17:08 with in this that's got a good reputation and can help get you entered in because you can't give your information to the wrong person. 17:15 Never get anywhere with it. So, Uh, and that's the com that's the company, that's the intermediary that we're talking about. That's 17:22 Right. That's right. I just found a good partner to partner with. Got it. I like it. 17:27 So we just talked about, I gave you some straight talk making sense on sustainability programs that can make you money and making sustainability pay. 17:33 You know what, don't be intimidated by this. That's why we've got Kelly Garrett as one of the absolute forefront of this. 17:38 That's how we met he and I three years ago was because he was getting some of this program. So you hear the words carbon, you hear the word 17:44 sustainability and it scares you, but it shouldn't. By the way, if you want to learn more about this, we are going to be at commodity classic extreme ag on stage 17:53 with Tru Tera talking about sustainability, about the real definition of sustainability, how we can make its, make it sense 17:59 how you can use these programs to your advantage. How it should not be overwhelming or intimidating to you. It can be just like this. 18:07 Just like John had a conversation, he grabbed some stuff off his John Deere operations center, filled out a few applications, told him some stuff. 18:13 He's getting 25 bucks an acre. Couldn't you use that? More simple than people probably think, eh, can be more simple than you thought. 18:22 That's right. It's working and you're still chugging it along here. And, uh, appreciate you sharing this information with us. 18:28 His name's Johnny Rell. My name's Damien Mason. Till next time, thanks for being here. I hope to see you at come out of the classic. 18:33 We'll be there. It's gone Thursday. That's right. Thursday. I'm looking at the calendar right now. 18:38 That's February 29th at 7:00 AM If I'm waking up at that early to be on stage at 7:00 AM you know what's gonna be a good time. 18:44 So come to it Thursday, February 29th at Commodity Classic 7:00 AM it's the learning center. 18:49 We're gonna be there. Me, Johnny, Kelly, Matt, and probably the rest of extreme ag also. But we're gonna be the ones on stage. Talk to you then. 18:56 Thanks for being here. Thanks Johnny. Thank you. Till next time. I'm Dane Mason. This is extreme ags cutting the curb. 19:02 That's a wrap for this episode of Cutting the Curve. Make sure to check out Extreme ag.farm for more great content to help you squeeze more profit out 19:10 of your farming operation. Cutting the curve is brought to you by cloth where machines aren't just made, they're made For more. 19:18 Visit cloth.com and start cutting your curve with cutting edge equipment.