00:00 Do you use cover crops? Have you considered cover crops? Have you tried using cover crops? And you said, oh, 00:05 this just doesn't work for me. Where I farm? That's what we're talking about. We're gonna make cover crops work on your farm. In this edition of Extreme Acts, 00:12 cutting the curve. Welcome to Extreme Acts Cutting the Curve podcast, where we cut your learning curve with insights you can apply immediately to your 00:21 farming operation. This episode is presented by Loveland products. When it comes to crop inputs, 00:27 you need products that are field proven to deliver both results and value. For more than 50 years, 00:32 Loveland products has been providing farmers with high performance value driven products solutions designed to maximize productivity on every acre. 00:41 Visit loveland products.com to see how their innovative products can help you farm more profitably. And now here's your host, Damian Mason. 00:50 Hey there. Welcome to another fantastic episode of Extreme Ice Cutting the curve. Got a great one for you today because here we are. 00:55 I'm recording this in the middle of October. The combines are just about done, put in the shed, and you're starting to think, you know, 01:01 maybe I should try this cover crop thing. No, no, it won't work here. You've heard that from your farmer buddies. 01:07 I'm here to tell you that cover crops are the way of the future. I actually believe that very soon in A-U-S-D-A program coming to you, 01:15 you're going to have incentives or maybe even requirements that you have to cover crop. That's where I think things are going. But you know what? 01:21 I'm just giving you my predictions. Now. Let's get to the experts on how you can make cover crops work on your farm. Kelly Garrett, Garrett, land and Cattle, 01:27 one of the original founders of Extreme Ag is joined in his office by Austin Te and Toler. Austin has a company TE and Taller Customs. 01:35 They grow clean package and distribute cover crop seed. You know what they're talking about, Northwest Iowa. So if you're pretending that somehow it's too cold where you are, 01:45 maybe that's not an objection that's gonna hold water. Kelly, you are getting more into the cover cropping thing. Uh, you've got hills, 01:52 you've got slope, uh, God knows, uh, you've got the erosion capacity. So there's a reason for doing it right there. You've also, uh, 02:00 always been an early adopter and even last year you talked about growing some of your own cover crop seed on some of your, uh, spare acres. 02:07 Where are you on the cover crop journey? We have gone more towards oats and a less towards rye, just to make it easier to terminate in the spring. 02:19 The rye also gives us more fall growth gives us a diversity of, uh, root mass out there besides just rye. And with the cow herd that we have, 02:28 the fall growth is great because of the forage potential that it brings. And yes, a huge reason, 02:34 maybe the number one reason for me with cover crops is the erosion control, the forage for the cows, getting more photosynthesis, uh, carbon into the soil. 02:43 All those things are a big benefit. Austin, uh, I wanted your credentials and then I'm going to ask you a very basic question. So, real quickly, if your company or one of your companies, 02:53 you've got a couple different ag entities you're involved with the one where you grow clean package and and do this, 02:59 how long you been doing it and sort of tell me what, what the reason for starting it was. We've been doing it for about five years or so. Um, 03:08 started with cleaning and packaging of just commercial beans, uh, and got into packaging and wholesaling and retailing the cover crop seed and 03:18 producing our own. Uh, one reason we got into the cleaning and packaging of our own is we are using it as a transitional period towards our, um, 03:29 organic production for acres on our own farm. Um, so it was one of our ways that we could transition and still stay cash flow positive. Um, but then we got into it as far as the, 03:42 the retailing and helping other people get into it. Uh, just 'cause we see such a huge benefit in it. Um, the USDA already pays out grants and stuff for it. So, 03:53 uh, we're kind of trying to help our neighbors utilize that for cattle production and feed source as well. 04:01 Yeah, I wanted to talk about the programs a little bit, but before, 'cause because it's, it's, it's not a constant yet. 04:07 And I know I teased that and there's probably some people that said, Damien, you're saying it's gonna get incentivized. It kind of already is. It's not, uh, 04:13 it's not quite universal, I guess is my observation. And it's also, there's a little bit of variance from state to state. 04:18 Let's talk about that in a minute. But let's talk about the pro the product that you put out there. Um, rye was the first one right? That came out of the gate, right? You're, 04:26 you're producing what is the package that if I came to you and I said, Hey, you've got this seed business, I'm gonna dabble in cover crops, 04:34 what would you give me? Well, I'd probably have to sit down with you first and ask you what your goals are because it's gonna vary for everybody. I mean, if you're gonna go into corn, 04:44 we're probably gonna steer towards more towards an boat product. You're going into beans, we're probably gonna steer more towards, 04:49 into a rye product, um, depending on if I'm going into corn stubble or if I'm going into bean stubble. Right? Right. So if you're gonna, 04:57 so what I'm saying is if you're gonna be corn the following year, okay, we'll probably steer towards more of an oat product. Okay. 05:02 If you're gonna be corn the following year, we'll probably steer more towards a rye product. Just what works best for a first year customers. 05:08 That's not because of a chemistry compatibility, is it? No, it's more or less a nitrogen situation. Okay. 05:16 And then you talked about you've got something that most probably people listening to this don't have. 05:22 You said something about then it going to something to feed as a forage for cattle. Kelly has cattle, most people that tune into ReMag probably aren't, 05:31 uh, diversified farming operation. But if I said, oh, I also want it to be a potential for cover crop as well as feed, then you start putting in legumes and some other things like that, I assume. 05:42 Yeah. So a lot of my guys, we steer strictly just towards the rye products, um, because we're seat at such a high intense rate and we're seating at, 05:53 uh, 70 to a hundred pounds an acre. Um, and trying to get legumes and brassicas to get started late in the fall and have enough growth going into the spring, um, 06:07 can arise difficulties. Yeah. A lot of my guys have been strictly with just the, the, uh, just the grain side of things, um, things. 06:17 But we've been dabbling into how to increase that into other avenues too. Alright. 06:22 First thing that the, we're gonna get to the, the, the money. We're going to the programs. We're also gonna get to the practices. 06:28 Before I do that, for the person that's still reluctant or questioning or dabbling or wants to dabble, let's give 'em the benefits first. You know, good salesperson, 06:36 which we're not really in the business of selling this, but if I'm, if I'm a skeptical person or I'm a new person to this, why do I wanna do this? 06:43 Erosion control is the obvious one. You got $20,000 acre farm ground, 14,000 acre farm ground seems to me that protecting it during the winter from 06:51 wind and water would be enough reason. But there's more reasons than that. Kelly, give me some agronomic reasons. 06:57 Just in the few years you've been a cover cropper that you're like, we should do this 07:03 Weeded suppression and nutrient availability, uh, better organic matter. All of those things come along from agronomic reasons. 07:11 Okay. Weeded suppression. Uh, the person that says, well, we got really good chemistry, 07:16 and you're talking about putting out cover crops in the fall. Um, I'm not worried about weeds out there in the winter anyhow. I'm gonna nuke it. 07:22 Come April, answer that, uh, answer that. It's not really an objection, but that person that says, yeah, but 07:30 Well, we do have, how about this? I would argue that we have good chemistry or not. I, you know, everybody's struggling in our area to control water hemp and putting the rye or 07:39 the oats out there going to beans. Like Austin said, you know, if you, if you're gonna go to beans, he'd steer you towards rye. 07:45 That rye is gonna help suppress that water hemp a bit. Is it gonna solve it? No. But are the chemical programs solving it? No, they're not either. Right. 07:54 So anything we can do to do that is great. And when we can do it without a chemical, I still believe that's better for the crops and the soil to do it without a 08:01 chemical. Uh, Austin, anything on that one? No, I would agree with them. Uh, I think the organic matters are big thing, and as long as the only thing I probably would add is water infiltration. Yep. 08:14 I mean, you're not seeing near the water sitting out there when you're talking snow melting and everything. You're gonna have ponds everywhere. 08:21 But when you start incorporating cover crops a lot more, that water starts going under the soil. You start utilizing the soil, 08:27 and when droughts come around, you see a lot less of an impact from That. So I wrote down, this is, this is good. I wrote down weeded suppression. 08:34 I wrote down nutrient cycling, which I think, uh, I want to get to. And I wrote down water infiltration, which he didn't say, and you did. 08:43 And then I also wrote down OMM organic matter, and I'll talk about the roots. So let's go ahead through, we did water suppression. 08:49 You just did water infiltration. Commonly the answer has been, oh man, that soil's packed down. It's kind of a heavy soil. 08:58 Let's go ahead and rip it down 16 inches and that will improve our porosity. Answer that. Austin, you just chuckled if you're listening, 09:04 he just chuckled on that one. So go ahead. Well, because they can't see a lot of people listen to the audio. They don't watch the video. You obviously, you thought that that was a, 09:12 a neat thing because you've heard that exact thing, haven't you? I don't need no infiltration through cover crops. 09:17 I'm gonna go out and rip that ground 16 inches, which I think we've proven, if you do it too much can beat the crap outta your soil structure. Right. 09:25 Well, and then where's that, uh, that compaction layer? Just that 18 inches now? Yeah. So now, now whatcha gonna do about that? 09:31 Go down 18 inches and keep ripping. Yeah. Eventually even you, you run outta you can't, you can't, you can't tilt to China. 09:39 Yeah. Correct. And that, you know, you hear that all the time. Is water infiltration? I'll just rip it. 09:45 Ripping does not do the same thing that roofs are gonna do. I mean, you know, people, one of the complaints people hear too is that well, rye only gets, 09:55 you know, six inches tall. Well, for every inch above ground you are, you got about at least two inches below ground. 10:01 So you're two foot plus below ground at some spots of pretty much water infiltration tillage, if you wanna call it that. Yeah. Yeah. The old thing, uh, that there's as many, 10:14 there's as many branches of a root system and a tree under the ground as there are branches above the ground on trees. 10:19 It's the same kind of concept that you're, you might, you might only get the six inches of a plant, uh, before we go to, you know, freezing temperatures. But there's probably that much root down there. Okay, 10:29 so water infiltration. How's it work on nutrient cycling? Because, you know, one of the things was that we were going to use those, um, 10:36 radishes that Austin are like three foot long or one foot long, and the idea was they're supposed to bust up compaction, 10:43 but also bring stuff up. Is that, did that work? Or where I didn't hear you talk about radishes. So I actually, you can see it plan as day in like a, 10:53 like a rye field or an oat field. Um, I'm sure you can probably see it in radish fields too, but I can do, you can see a lot easier in like rye fields and people do a whole field you can 11:05 see in hydrus marks from the year before. Mm-Hmm. So you can't tell me that we're not taking up nutrients with any cover crop, really. Um, 11:14 but it's just plain as day when you can go out into somebody's field that they put in, put in an hydrous in, and you can see every single pass they make. 11:23 Okay. Explain what he's talking about right there to somebody that doesn't understand that. And I'm one of 'em. Kelly, what are you talking about? 11:28 You can see anhydrous passes and then cover crops do Well, you can see the, the, the crop is greener. Yes. The, the, the crop is greener over the row because there's a greater amount or a greater 11:37 intensity of nitrogen in that area. And that cover crop is sucking it up. So then when the crop dies, that nitrogen is available later in the season. 11:46 Correct. For the corn crop. That's what he's talking about. So that you can visually see the cycling going on. Um, 11:53 I would say that that root system of the, uh, of the, of the rye to even expand on that, that root system, if he's talking about it being six inches tall, 12:02 but maybe being a foot or 18 inches deep, that root system is bringing nutrients from 18 inches deep, bringing it up and building plant matter with it, building biomass with it, 12:12 and then it's dying. Now you're cycling that. So 18 inches deep, you had, you had, uh, fertility come up, nutrition come up, builds the rye crop, 12:22 the rye gets terminated and dies. And now you've got plant available nutrition sitting on top of the soil, which in the top couple inches of the soil is where the, uh, 12:33 majority of the fertility comes from, or nutrition comes from that feeds the crop. Got it. Uh, I wrote down organic matter. 12:39 I think one or both of you both said that was a benefit of using cover crops. Uh, Darren Hefty was on this show a month ago or so, 12:46 and he spoke about, and I've heard him say it on stage at his PhD Field Day roots are the key to organic matter increases. Austin, give me your thought on that. 12:58 So I was just talking to Kelly about this. Uh, when he asked me to be on this podcast, I actually looked up the podcast and I was listening to that one about, uh, 13:05 increasing organic matter. And I told Kel, I'm like, this is a perfect follow up to that. Because the amount of roots that you have from a cover crop 13:15 plant, whether it's radishes, turnips, rye, anything, the amount of roots underneath the soil is intense. Um, I mean, you're, you'll never be able to dig 'em all up. 13:27 So that right there alone just shows how much more organic matter you're gonna build in the soil. 13:33 Yep. Austin, your, your statement there about how we have a consistent and cohesive programming that is brilliant and helpful, would you, how mean, 13:45 how much of that credit would you say the host, like, goes to the host? Like, was that, is that a 90, is that an 80 to a 90% that goes to the host? 13:54 I mean, 15 because what, what you were really saying there was that this is, this is really where the smart kids hang out. 14:00 And this is gonna make people a lot of money on their farm with what I heard you say. Right? 14:05 Oh, Should. All right. Hey, let's talk about, um, let's talk about some of the objections. And before we do that, I wanna, I wanna talk about, not the objections, 14:15 but the other things about the practicality part of it, because I've heard, okay, it's too cold. I don't have the time. Uh, my roots, 14:22 my crops come out too late to get it going. Um, I don't have a method of seeding it. I don't own a drill. Uh, I don't own an aerial. I want to go through all of those things. 14:30 The practical part of it, if I want to start doing cover cropping, uh, how I go about doing it and what, what, uh, I need to know. Before I do that, 14:37 I wanna remind you that we came through a pretty stressful year. My buddy Kelly, sitting right here had some very, very high temperatures. Very, very dry. 14:44 It was out there in June and it looked like, it looked like crap. Let's just face it. You know what, 14:48 if you wanna stand up to weather induced crop stress, you need to turn to Terramar. Terramar is an innovative bio stimulant technology from Loveland products 14:57 designed to help your corn and soybean crops thrive, even under stressful conditions. Terramar, T-E-R-R-A-M-A-R, Terramar, 15:06 exclusively available from Nutrient Ag Solutions. Um, it's too cold where I live. I can't get germination. Go Austin. How do you, what do you tell 'em? 15:17 So I got into cover crops actually, um, from somebody in southern Minnesota, and they use cover crops repeatedly every year. 15:28 And his theory was, if I can get it to work, you can get it to work. And that's where I got started with it. Um, we're putting in cover crops, 15:37 uh, before we harvest, after we harvest. I mean, I've put in cover crops all the way through December. Okay, let's just hit on that one right there, 15:46 because there's the extreme example. You're in, you're in Northern Iowa. I mean, it's, it's, you're not talking about, you know, being in the fringe of, uh, 15:54 where it never freezes. Let's say where Chad Henderson is. You put 'em in December, you got germination 16:02 Yeah, germination the next spring. Okay. So that's, that's not, that's, that's an extreme example. Putting something in December where you are, you've got a seed in the ground, 16:11 it'll green up, well, probably 1st of March when you, or middle of March. Yep. When you start to have a little bit of middle Yep. Middle of March. Okay. 16:18 And then the person's gonna say, well, what the hell good did that do you? Well, first two months you were doing some of those things, cycling and whatever. 16:25 'cause it was there until mid-May. Yeah. So, you know, the big thing is too, still, you're pulling in carbon and that's the big, 16:33 big key now is you're still feeding those micro as a fungi going into the spring. And that's still a huge thing. You're still doing wheat suppression, 16:42 you're still building organic matter, you're still building water on filtration. You're still doing all those things for two months before you even plan. 16:48 You still have some erosion control. Uh, well you do in the spring, and that's when we need, we have some heavy precipitation. Yeah. You missed out. Okay. 16:56 So now that's still giving you two months worth of value. Ideally, I get six months worth of value if I do it right. 17:03 So talk to me about getting the stuff done in the fall and as it pertains to temperature. 17:09 So Kelly, I can talk a little bit about this too, but you can see with airplanes, drones, and standing corn, um, I've seeded in soybeans about, oh, 17:21 it would probably be the last week of August, beginning of September, about when they start turning yellow. 17:26 That's about the time you wanna start seeding into beans. I've done that before, uh, with aerial applications. Um, I've seen guys as, 17:35 right as soon as fungicide is done, you go in with hagy sprayers with the dry box on 'em, seeding cover crops, airplanes, drones. 17:43 And that's right after harvest. Before harvest before. Okay. So don't you then you're saying, man, I'm going out there. One more pass, I'm gonna knock over stuff. If I'm doing it on with a ground rig, 17:52 I am gonna lose some heart. I'm gonna lose some yield though. Right? Well, typical, a lot of the guys that are doing it with the ground rigs, 17:59 the haggy and stuff like that already have 'em, their fungicide and stuff put on with ground rigs. So they're covering the same passes then. Okay, 18:06 So you're talking about very last pass. You're talking about like one month before the combine might run and, and so that maybe five weeks roughly, right? Yeah. Okay. 18:17 So then the question is gonna be, am I robbing yield to finish out those soybeans? Am I robbing potential from the finishing of that soybean by putting something 18:26 else in the ground with my fungicide pass? I know Kelly could probably speak on this better 'cause he's done a lot more research on this, but corn is corn and beans have already, 18:36 they already know what they're gonna yield. That has already been determined at that point in time in the growing season. Right? 18:41 You know, I, we don't believe so. You know, we, uh, with the desiccation of our soybeans and the, you know, the wet corn that we're combining now to go to the ethanol plant, 18:51 things like that, we're doing a lot of harvest right after labor day. And the drill is the best. The, 18:58 the drill is by far the best way to put the cover crops in. If that is available to you on some of the later harvested corn and things like 19:04 that. I worry about germination. What we did this year is we hired a drone and we had a drone seated into the standing corn. Uh, none of the soybeans do we do that. We, 19:13 we drill or broadcast all the soybeans afterwards. But as, as far as robbing the yield, you know, that corn, when, when we're doing that, 19:23 when we're doing the corn, you're talking about Labor day last week of Oct, last week of August, first week of September, 19:29 when that drone is out there on some of those gonna be later harvested fields and the corn is added, R four, R five stage mm-Hmm. 19:36 And the little bit of germination that's going on and stuff at that point is giving that cover crop a head start to get some growth before fall, 19:44 but it just isn't enough that it's robbing any yield. If we were gonna go out there 1st of August, end of July, and you're, you're expecting a green mat to start, uh, before harvest, 19:54 I could see where maybe it would rob some moisture or something like that. I, I don't think it's gonna rob nutrients, but it could rob some moisture and, uh, 20:02 uh, but we're not doing it that soon. Last week of August isn't gonna rob any moisture from that corn crop. Then the point is, is it enough moisture to matter to get the thing established? 20:11 Uh, do you gain anything by going, and in that example, am I doing myself any favor to go out there at Labor Day and aerial it versus just waiting until the harvest is done? 20:20 Because did the cover crop even have enough moisture to get going? Last year It did not this year. It did. 20:26 This year we worked very hard at broadcasting and drilling because we had a rain coming and it paid off with big dividends. 20:33 I was showing Austin before we came on today where, where we're coming up through the cover, uh, where we're coming up through the cornstalks. Yep. 20:40 And it is all where we did the drone. If we would've waited till after the drone, I don't believe we would've had the germination. It 100% paid off this year. 20:47 Okay. And you're talking about broadcasting, the corn is tall, you've got a lot of stuff between the, the air and the, and the soil. 20:56 How much are you even getting, I mean, your germination rate, is it 25%? A lot of this, a lot of it, it never gets to the soil. Right. 21:05 I would say you'd be surp. I think you'd be surprised because, you know, yeah, you might be landing in a corn crop here or there. 21:12 You might put a seed or two down in the swirl. But if you land on the leaf, you still got your wind, you still got your rain, 21:20 everything's pushing that seed all the way down as far as it can. Um, I would say you're gonna see a pretty high germination rate. I would say over 21:27 80%. If we get a rain, we're gonna get a pretty, I think it's over three-fourths. I think it's over 75%. There's some really nice stance coming. 21:35 At first I thought the combines did a bad job. Yeah. And there was a bunch of volunteer corn coming, then I went out there. No, it's the cover crop. Yeah. 21:41 So, okay. One of you said 75, 1 of you said 80%. So that's enough to justify doing it then about the expense. Um, aerial application's, not cheap. Austin, how, why, 21:51 how can I make this make sense? What am I paying if it's an aerial application, are they doing anything else or just putting on, am I, 21:57 am I getting an aerial applicator just to put on cover crop seed? Yeah. 22:00 So aerial applicators will start putting on seed directly after they're done with fungicide season. I mean, within a week of them being done with fungicide, 22:09 they're already putting on cover crop seed. So it would be a, a, a loan source payment for putting the cover crop seed. So, 22:18 And that's on ground, that's, that's on ground that still has crops on it generally correct. Yep. Yep. 22:24 And so you're talking seven or eight bucks an acre, plus the cost of the seed. 10 bucks an acre plus the cost of seed, 22:30 10 bucks plus the cost. The cost of the seed. Yeah. Maybe 12. Okay. And I can make that. And, and how much am I spending on seed, uh, 22:37 with a one way or two way mix? Am I talking 20 bucks, 30 Bucks, 15 probably, yeah. 22:44 Okay. 20 cents a pound. Depends on what your seating rate is. Yeah. Okay. Uh, the drone 22:49 Seating rate's a big one. Okay. I wanna get to that in a minute. The drone, uh, you used a drone, you don't own a drone. So tell me how that worked, 22:58 because this is an experiment that I think this might catch on. This might be the way things were done five years from now, but you tell me. 23:05 Mm-Hmm. Yeah. You know, the drone, the expense of the drone is very close to the expense of the plane. It really tight, 23:13 really closely to the same amount per acre dollars spent there. I just think that the drone, um, is doing a lot better job. 23:21 'cause it's flying right over top of the crop. It's not taking as big of a pass. You know, things like that. I, I think it, the seed placement, well, 23:27 whether it's a foliar application or a fungicide application or cover crop seed, I think the drone has a decided advantage over an airplane. 23:36 Okay. So cost on that right now we don't, we're not still, we're not still to where drones are a common, uh, application, you know, 23:44 to where they're sitting on, you know, they're not like sitting around like anhydrous tanks for instance. No. How, how much are we paying now for a drone, uh, cover crop application? 23:52 And where do you think it, it, you know, where's it go three years from now? It's about 10 or $12 an acre. It's right there. 23:59 Are we, but we should get cheaper in another couple of years when we have more of them. Uh, maybe. 24:04 I bet it won't because the market will support it because you're either gonna hire a plane or hire a drone. I don't think it'll get cheaper. 24:09 Okay. Uh, the other part of this then, you spoke about carbon, uh, infiltrate filtration and, and, uh, then it helps you reco, baisil, whatever the hell did you call it there. Austin. 24:21 Talk to me about the, talk to me about the chemistry part of it. So, micro, as a fungi, that's a huge, uh, 24:27 thing that people are talking about right now. Um, and pretty much what that is, is the fungis inside of the soil that will help with, I mean, 24:38 it helps with so many things. It'll help with disease, it'll help with weeds, it'll help with insects, it'll help with organic matter, uh, fertility. 24:46 I mean, it's kind of the main driving source in your soil. Got it. All right. I probably have a couple questions I didn't ask, 24:56 but before we get to the things that I didn't ask, let's talk about the money. 'cause everybody wants to know about the money. Um, somebody told me, 25:03 and I think it was our, uh, uh, I, I think it was one of our, I think it was James, I think it was James Hep in fact, that told me he does, 25:10 he gets a program from Iowa. I don't think there's one of those in my state. Then there's some USDA programs. I've heard the number $35. 25:16 I don't know where that came from, but I've heard that tossed around money. If I wanna do this, I'm willing to do it because it helps my soil. 25:24 Some people are gonna say, no, I'm, it doesn't work and it costs money. So talk to me about how you can do some programs to make this, uh, 25:30 even more effective for your bottom line. So through where I'm at in West Central Iowa, um, the USDA will cover so much percent depending on what you're doing 25:43 and what, how long you've been doing it. There's also other programs I know, like Practical Farmers of Iowa, they have programs. 25:49 Iowa Soybean Association has programs as well. Um, and then there's even your carbon credit programs as well that, uh, will pay out for the cover crops 25:58 Too. Can you, can you combine one with the other? In other words, can I get money from uh, uh, more than one entity? 26:05 You can, uh, but you gotta be careful for the ones you sign up for. I know, like I have people that sign up for USDA program, USDA programs, 26:14 the NRCS, and then they'll also sign up for Practical Farmers of Iowa. Um, I've had guys receive up to $45 an acre in cost share 26:23 programs. Uh, typically I would say you're running right around that 20 to $30 an acre in my area for cover crop programs. 26:33 Okay. If you got no money, would you still do it? Kelly? You would, right? I would now, yes. You're at first. I wanted the money to try it, 26:41 but I would now because we see the benefit. Okay. The speaking of the benefits, uh, and we're gonna get outta here on this kind of stuff right here. 26:50 You talked about using a rye or using an oats. Uh, oats are something I've not heard as much about. You guys are the first two people to talk to me about using oats. Uh, 26:57 and then we've got the radishes and we've got the clovers, et cetera. Just real quickly, where are we going on different seeds for what purpose, 27:05 et cetera? Because, and we'll do another episode about that in the future. But right now, what do you use Kelly? 27:11 And do you get stuff from Austin and in what purpose is it? So the basis of our cover, of our cover crop mix is two-thirds oats, 27:20 one-third rye. And then, you know, Vern gets very excited about this with the barca and things like that. And we've tried, uh, I can't even remember all the things that, winter peas, 27:30 winter peas, the radishes, the turnips, kale. We tried some kale and, uh, Vern's in the combine today, Damien. So we couldn't be there. 27:39 But I've seen Vern out there when the seedlings are coming up and he's all excited about what it's, 27:43 and he's eaten them to see which ones are the radishes or the turnips because he can taste it out there in the field. But we're doing that. 27:50 The bigger diversity of things is what, uh, really helps the soil. That's The thing. So, and, and we're gonna do a future episode with Vern. By the way, 27:58 Vern is Kelly's kid, if you're new to this show. And, um, he's, he, he, he's the, he's the, he's the most 70 year old, 25 year old you'll ever meet. 28:07 And, um, and, and we love, we love having him on here, but the fact that he gets giddy about this is where the future's going. What about that thing? When you do one species, 28:18 you're still better than nothing. 'cause you're getting the roots and you're getting all those things, infiltration of water, aeration, uh, you know, breaking up a compaction layer, 28:25 all those things that the roots do. When you combine a second thing, you get a synergistic effect, Austin, and, right. 28:31 Correct. So a lot of my crop plans, um, I should say blends consist of rye and or oats could be both. Um, usually incorporated with, uh, some like kale, 28:47 bayou kale I really like because it has multiple tap roads, helps with, helps with the compaction issues. Um, and I'm, 28:55 I'm a big fan of turnips because it helps with the, uh, earthworm population as well. Uh, everything has its own purpose. And, 29:02 and that's where I'd like to sit down and talk to the customers that I work with and figure out what are they trying to do. 29:09 'cause everything's got a different purpose. Yeah. Yeah. And to that end, you know, Lee Lubert has talked a lot about earthworms as aeration, as compaction, 29:20 layer busters, all that kind of stuff. And, and cover crops help with that. This last thing that I've heard people say, 29:30 well then all my fertility is being used up by those cover crops. Why wouldn't I wanna use that fertility for my crops? Answer that both of you, 29:37 either of you, It, it's not being used up because you're not removing it from the soil. You're not the only, the only reason it's re being removed or, 29:46 or the only reason it's being used up is if you remove it. Like, you know, we can measure, uh, 29:51 230 bushel of corn hauled off the field, remove 64 pounds of K. We're not hauling anything off the field. We're cycling that nutrition. 30:01 We're terminating that crop and it's gonna become the organic matter. Uh, one of the most exciting things I learned early on Neo kinsey's book, 30:08 hands on agronomy, when a nutrient has been through a crop once, it's 10 times more available to the next plant. So when you're, 30:17 when this is growing, when this cover crop is growing and then we terminate it, some of that nutrition that it's bringing up was previously unavailable to the 30:25 plant. And the cover crop made it plant available nutrition by bringing it in and building that biomass. And now when we put next year's crop out there, 30:34 it's 100% available. The nutrition from this, uh, cover crop is unparalleled. Yeah. You, you cannot go buy potash or 1152 Oh. And do the same thing. Yeah. It's not as available. 30:45 Right. It makes it more available. It's kinda like the manure is is a more Yes. More natural source than, than synthetic. The, 30:52 The manu, the nutrition from the plant food that I use plant or the nutrition from manure or the nutrition from the cover crop is all the same thing because it's been 31:01 through a plant already. Yeah. It's plant available. This is why we listened to the very end, a dear listener and viewer. It, it was toward the end of the episode where you just heard that a nutrient that's 31:12 been through cycled through a plant is 10 times more available to the next crop than it had been previously. That's good stuff. All right. Uh, Austin, 31:20 get me outta here. What, what questions did I not ask? What thing do I need to know? Uh, this was kind of our introduction. We called it making cover crops work on your farm. The person that says, 31:30 I'm still not sure what you gonna tell 'em. Well, I just kind of wanna follow up with what Kelly was saying too. You know, you said at the beginning of the podcast, 31:37 you can see that the USDA is gonna make this to a point where you're gonna almost have to use cover crops and you know, 31:45 their number one thing is leaching different nutrients out, right? Yeah. I guess one nitrogen, 31:51 Ni nitrogen was the nitrogen's, the biggie. And then obviously if you're in Ohio, lake Erie and phosphates have been the story for two decades. 31:58 Yep. And so, and I said towards the middle you can see the hydrus, which is your nitrogen passes 32:06 a year later and the cover crop they're putting, putting in, like Kelly said, you're recycling that back through. 32:13 So you're bringing that from all the way up the soil where it's not gonna be leaching, 32:16 you're bringing it back towards the top and you're using it again the next year. Mm-Hmm. 32:20 So instead of letting that extra 40 pounds of nitrogen go through the soil that you paid for and getting yelled at by the government for 32:30 le letting it leach, you're now reusing it and it's there for the next year's crop. I think we're gonna leave it there, but since Kelly is, as you in his office, 32:39 he gets the last word. Is there anything I didn't ask about this? Because I mean, 32:43 we're gonna come back and do this topic and it's gonna be more about using multiple species and methods and practices. Because once you start Austin, 32:51 I think we can admit, once you start putting, you know, like the regenerative guys are talking about putting five and seven and eight different things in. Yeah. The practice, your, your practices need to evolve, 33:01 but we're trying to get people going on this. So for the person that's gonna start, wants to start, you're obviously sold on it now. You're growing some of your own seed, 33:08 you're buying stuff off Austin. What else, uh, Kelly do I need to tell anybody? Well, you know, early on I used wheat because we were raising winter wheats. 33:16 We just saved some of it and put it out there. Then we switched to the rye, things like that. And, you know, that's a hundred percent perennial. 33:23 There were times if it was a cool wet spring, things like that where I had trouble getting that terminated. That's the reason that we've gone to the oats is because that doesn't come back 33:32 in the spring and it's easier to get terminated when it isn't 100% of a green carpet out there. 33:38 So a lot of people have had a bad experience trying to terminate that 40, 50 pounds of rye or even more, and don't get discouraged. Like, you know, 33:48 I didn't get discouraged. I went to a two, two-thirds oats, one-third rye mix, and now we're having an easier time getting it terminated. And I'd also say, 33:56 you know, work with someone like Austin and tell 'em what your rotational plan is for next year's crop. Because it, there's more, 34:02 there can be more to it than just putting out rye than just putting out wheat. And you can get added benefits from it if you have someone with experience like 34:09 Austin, there's a lot of People that sell cover crop seed, and they might not understand it fully. They're just gonna sell you the cover crop seed. 34:17 There's a big benefit to working with somebody that understands what your operational wants to do and achieving that so that way you don't fall behind. 34:25 Because if you do it once and it fails, you're gonna think it fails for the next 20 years. Right, Right. Right. It's that, it's that old thing of, uh, I mean everything, 34:34 there's only one thing that we've all done poorly the first time and still kept trying it, but aside from that, there's, there's this problem that, yeah, 34:42 I did it, it it didn't work. I'll never do it again. Exactly. Don't, don't let that happen. Don't be afraid to ask somebody with a lot of experience like Austin Yeah. To, 34:51 uh, to help steer you in the right direction. Right. So, I mean, 'cause because you're talking about a lot of different, uh, things that could actually make it a better sale. I mean, 34:58 the number of seeds that you sell right now, Austin, I mean, you've got how many different things you put in the mix? A dozen, half dozen? 35:05 Oh, I'd say half, probably half a dozen. Yeah. Right. All right. Turn to an expert. If you wanna learn more about this, I'm sure that Austin would love to talk to you. His name is Austin Te Toler, 35:15 the company's Te Toler Cost Customs. Do they have any way to find you? Uh, we got a Facebook page. Um, te Toler customs, uh, 35:24 I'm on Facebook personally. Austin Tif Toler all. And if you need to connect through me and we'll find him. And by the way, I'm not gonna bother trying to spell this name, Tal. Anyway, that's it. 35:35 His name's Austin Teal. Uh, we're, he's coming to you from Kelly Garrett's office. Garrett Land and Cattle. Till next time, I'm Dave Mason. 35:41 Share this with somebody that you think can benefit from it. You know what? Cover crops probably very likely, like it or not, 35:46 are gonna be part of the future. You get your education here and apply it on your farm for greater, uh, results on your farming operation. 35:53 Remember hundreds of videos just like this at Extreme Ag. Do farm hundreds of videos these guys shooting in his field, 35:59 plus the hundreds of videos and podcasts that I've created with them to help your farming game. Check it out. Share what somebody can benefit from it. 36:05 Until next time, thanks for being here. That's a wrap for this episode of Extreme ags Cutting the Curve, but there is plenty more available by visiting Extreme Ag Farm. 36:15 For over 50 years, farmers have turned to the proven lineup of crop inputs offered by Loveland products, from seed treatments, plant nutrition, adjuvant, 36:24 and crop protection products. Loveland has the complete lineup to keep your farming operation productive, and most importantly, profitable. Check out loveland products.com to learn more.