00:00 In furrow programs, what is a successful and evolving in furrow program that can get your crops off to the right start? 00:07 That's the discussion in this episode of Extreme Ag Cutting the Curve. Welcome to extreme Ag Cutting the Curve podcast, 00:14 where real farmers share real insights and real results to help you improve your farming operation. This episode is brought to you by Simon Innovation, 00:23 protect your crops and maximize yield with a full lineup of innovative precision tools engineered 00:29 to enhance the efficiency and accuracy of your sprayer. Visit simon innovations.com and start getting more ROI out of your sprayer. 00:37 And now here's your host, Damien Mason. Hey there. Welcome to another fantastic episode of Extreme as Cutting the Curve. 00:44 I've got Mario Cara, Cara Carillo, and he's with Corteva, formerly Stoller, Corteva iss, uh, biological side. 00:53 And we've also got Kelly Garrett, one of the founding fathers of Extreme Ag. And we were talking about this 00:57 before we hit the record button. Really only about 10 to 20% of planters used in the United States of America are set up 01:04 with infra technology. Um, but the thing is, those that do cover a lot of acres and the extreme ag guys, most of all of them, uh, 01:12 have an infra program and it has evolved from what it was a few years ago. So Kelly's gonna share that with us. 01:17 And then Mario being the smart dude that he is gonna tell us, if you're gonna start dabbling in, in furrow or you wanna up your in furrow game, 01:24 here's what you need to consider. Here's the type of products and here's the objective you are looking for. 01:29 Kelly. Um, you had a lot to share on this and you said, you know what? I got this topic, so lead me away. 01:37 The infer program that's on our planner, you know, has really evolved over the last seven or eight years. Uh, we started out with just 6 24 6, which is, you know, a, 01:47 a basic phosphorus popup fertilizer. And now the only fertility that is in the, uh, inferral program is some, uh, calcium and some zinc. 01:58 You know, because we need, we wanna provide that with a planter because we have a hard time with soil, soil available nutrition there. 02:04 But there's still eight things in my fertility program, or not my fertility program in my Inferral program. And one of the most important things would be the plant 02:14 growth regulator that we put in there. We've had a grower standard practice now for quite a few years on it, 02:19 but we feel that it's too oxen dominant, especially with some of the biostimulants that we're also putting in with some carbon based products. 02:27 So we're moving to a Corteva product this year. Not entirely we're trying it, but I'm optimistic about it. The name of that product is Fortified Stimulant Yield 02:36 Enhancer Plus, the name is a mouthful, but it is an important product for us. And the reason that we are optimistic 02:43 and excited about this product is it's a three-way, PGR, and we feel that it has a better balance for us to try 02:51 to produce a better root system. All right, so he just said a lot of stuff there, Mario and Kelly is, uh, Kelly's very good about admitting that, 03:01 uh, agronomically, he's not at the, at the, at the front of the class when it comes to the extreme ag guys. 03:07 Some of these guys are, um, way, way more, uh, in the dirt than he is, but he is got great help there with Evans 03:13 and a couple of those other people, uh, right Wing Grove, et cetera. Um, is is his lead off, when I said lead us off here 03:20 to talk about the Inro thing, is it, did he go with the right thing? Is that the most important thing, what he just said? 03:27 No, absolutely. I mean, it's when what we see at Curs today is, you know, we wanna see it as a whole, uh, full season program, full season solution. 03:38 Uh, we call it a start, grow finish program. Um, for us, you know, every day in the field is gonna be a day 03:46 with a potential to lose yield. Um, you know, today, as we, as we mentioned, uh, in the past, in the previous conversation, 03:53 we're only harvest percent less than 30% of the year yield potential. So we wanna make sure that we get crop, uh, 03:59 to a strong start and in furrow application with PGRs, uh, is the way to go. So we have some products that can really promote 04:08 that seed emergence, seed germination that is even. Um, and we know that there's research in the past that I have indicated that if you have percent 04:18 of the plans emerging past day two, you start losing significant amount of yield. So if we can actually get that truck to a better start, 04:26 that will definitely help us maximize that yield potential Above your right shoulder. 04:30 Um, Mario, if you're watching this dear listener, you can listen to our podcast. You can also watch them, uh, 04:35 on obviously at Extreme Ag Farm. And also we put a lot of these things out on our Acres TV channel. 04:41 Um, there's a word balanced, um, it's probably one of Kelly's favorite words. His, he, he gets a little cyclical in his words. 04:47 Um, his, he was stress mitigation in 2021 and 2022. He was all about the stress and all about the stress. Then he moved into balance. 04:56 And so I guess, is that the thing, 'cause he just talked about a balanced emergence is what's the number one, um, the number one thing you get out 05:06 of a healthy, uh, appropriately apportioned in furrow program, Kelly? Is it the balanced emergence? 05:14 Is it, is it the stress mitigation? What, tell me kind of in your mind what the benefit of the proper in furrow program, 05:22 what's the primary biggest uh, achievement? I, I believe part of it is a popup fertilizer. I believe, uh, part of it is that plant growth regulator 05:32 to supplement the plant, to enhance the root growth, enhance the popup, and yeah, we're trying to, we're trying 05:39 to make a balanced plant. We start, we start with trying to balance the soil from a base saturation perspective. 05:44 Yep. And then we spend the season trying to balance the plant and it starts with the inferral fertility. 05:51 So what I'm saying though is the, the, if you said I've gotta prioritize the, the, the achievement that my infra program does, 06:00 the most important thing it does is this, the second most important thing it does is this, this, this is balanced. 06:06 Is, is even emergence the first one or is it getting past, is it getting past, um, cold and wet and therefore creating the stress? 06:14 Which thing is it that an in forrow program, you think it's number one job, number two, number three, in terms of the hierarchy of importance? 06:22 Well, that, you know, if it is a cold, wet year that stress mitigation and things like that to pro protect the seed becomes 06:29 the number one priority. If we have soil appropriate temperatures, and hopefully we do, then 06:34 that even emergence is the number one priority, there's still gonna be some stress involved, you know, so, but that would move down the list a little bit. 06:41 You know, uh, right now, today it's 70, but we've had a lot of rain, things like that. And as we get lower, as we get longer into the season, 06:49 that even emergence becomes, uh, becomes the higher priority to get those plants up within 06:55 that first 24 hour window like Mario referenced. So yes, that, I would say that is the number one Priority. And the 07:01 priority varies with the variability of conditions. It, it can, it can, you know, if, if it's starting to get, you know, like we're forecast 07:10 to have some Mother's Day temperatures in the high thirties, stress mitigation's gonna start 07:15 to creep up there just a little bit, you know, but we're still gonna have an eye on that, even emergence trying to, 07:20 and that's why there's eight things in that in info package because we're trying to address 'em all. 07:25 Alright, now I wanna go to Mario. Uh, by the way, is it safe to say you're like a lead agronomist, 07:30 you're the director of agronomy? I don't normally use titles, but in this case, since we're digging in, 07:34 literally digging into the dirt on this, um, what, what is your title? So my title is North America Commercial Agronomy 07:43 leader for biologicals. So every the biological team, um, you know, work, we, I don't consider myself an expert. 07:51 I'm always learning, you know, and I'm learning from, from, um, that has a lot of experience growers that, you know, are maximizing 08:00 that yield and showing us how can we actually do it in the field, right? But we do have some solutions that we bring 08:07 and we have a lot of research. So, so the company has to spend a lot of money trying to bring products that are proven, uh, 08:14 because we don't wanna use, uh, you know, the grower as a Guinea pig, we wanna make sure that we bring that value, that consistency. 08:22 And you mentioned stress mitigation, it is important. Um, but that extra boost, um, you know, for that genetic to be, um, maximizing the field is extremely important. 08:33 So, so for me, for instance, when you're using those hormones or, or PGRs, we consider them as messengers. We are sending a message, but we still need those bricks 08:44 and mortar, we need the micronutrients, we need the water, we need the macronutrients to make sure 08:49 that we're maximizing that genetic potential in the field. So we wanna make sure that we have a balance, a balance 08:56 of those, uh, uh, micronutrients, micronutrients and hormones to be able to help that crop get to, uh, to a better start. 09:05 So there's the other thing about balance. There's so much stuff. These advanced farmers like Kelly 09:12 and what he's doing with the guys that help him, his seal team six from agronomy to equipment, there's a hell of a lot that happens behind the tractor on that planter. 09:23 It seems like there'd be a real opportunity to have some miscues where there's too much of this, too little of that. 09:30 There's what, 14 different things happening at time of planting literally with the stuff. Um, if you get it wrong, does the person 09:40 that doesn't have in frow say there's a lot to go wrong there, I'm just gonna stay out of it. Is there an argument being made that you, you, 09:46 if you have a chance at, uh, creating a problem, because there's so much happening there, if you don't really dial it in, 09:54 Uh, I can take a stab at it out of it, but, uh, when it comes to stresses, um, one plus one plus one is not equal three, 10:01 it's gonna be increased because, um, that is the way that the environment and the management and the genetics play together. 10:10 So when we look at the final yield, the final yield is the interaction of genetic by environment, by management. 10:16 And management is crucial, right? So we all are doing, I believe, um, leader growers in the US are doing an amazing job 10:24 with fertilization, with control insect diseases, but somehow a good day in central Illinois is at 350 bushel corn when the, you know, potential can be a thousand. 10:37 So what are we missing? How can we close that gap? And lead growers are thinking outside the boat now, 10 to 20% of the, 10:47 of the equipment out there may have in furrow. I will say in the future, you probably will see that increasing because that is an extra step 10:56 that you can save you and wait for that herbicide application to continue to save yield, uh, every day. 11:03 And, and, and you know, we always say, when is corn developing that yield potential is at a particular stage. 11:10 The reality is it's a little bit before, it's a little bit after throughout the season, right? 11:16 So we wanna make sure that we help. Kelly, is it, is there a chance as much stuff has happens on your planter? 11:22 Is is it, is it, I mean, is there a little nervousness that holy crap, um, if I'm off, if my ratios are off or my inflows not set up right, then my, you know, 11:33 you talked about you've taken fertility largely out of the planter, so that's one thing that can't go wrong. So is it bother you that maybe you might have a ratio wrong 11:44 or you think nope, doesn't matter. It's all going in there and, and, and it's performing magically on the in info, uh, 11:52 uh, products. You know, you can never completely take human error out of the equation, right? 11:59 So a mistake could happen, but we're talking about adding three or four x the ROI, the, the ROI is three 12:08 or four x with the cost is so, you know, you've gotta do a good it just like anything else, you've got to do a good job. 12:14 We could also back the planter into a tree, you know, I mean, things can happen in the process, but that doesn't mean, that doesn't mean 12:22 that we shouldn't try to manage intensively. I, you know, I I think Damien, um, if we really get down to the root of your question is, 12:30 is intensive management worth it? And I would tell you the value of the land, the value of the equipment, and as tight as our margins are, 12:38 the intensive management, very much is worth it. And we get paid, we, we can get paid or have an ROI to do that. 12:44 But that doesn't mean mistakes don't happen, but it, there's no, there's no question in my mind it's worth it. 12:50 Alright, so what goes in your in forrow? What's the total mixture? What's, what's happening when, 12:56 what's happening in Forrow on Garrett land and cattle this spring? There is, uh, there's a PGR, there's calcium, 13:05 there's zinc, there's the insecticide. We run an insecticide on every acre and then we run untreated corn 13:11 because the untreated corn is less expensive. Alright, So wait, wait, let's, let's break it down. Let's break it down. So two, two major micros. 13:19 Uh, actually it might even be called a mini micro. You and I did a recording about a mini micro copper is a mini micro, zinc is micro, um, yep. 13:29 You said a plant growth regulator. Um, you told me in a recording we did a couple years ago that you thought that all 13:36 that four quad stack corn was more expensive than the actual benefit, so you went back to a more conventional, 13:43 less expensive corn and you just, we have use products to make up for it and you get as much or more yield and 13:50 and downs spend on the seed. Okay? Yep. I understand that. Did I miss something? No, the, the calcium ide, the insecticide, the PGR, 14:00 uh, the stress mitigation product is five and, uh, then there's a couples Car insecticide you said, you said an insecticide. 14:08 I forgot that. Okay. I said copper. You said calcium. So I got my, my, uh, my both. Yep. And then the product that our friends over here at Corteva 14:16 Agri, uh, biologicals come up with the longest, the longest trade name. The longest trade name in the history 14:22 of agricultural, uh, inputs, Fortified, stimulate yield, enhancer plus, And that and what's it do, Mario? 14:32 Mario, what's it do? Absolutely. And, and what I always tell people and, and we say with a name that long, it has 14:39 to be good Product. Um, it has four, well, three hormones and, and it has two different types of oxen. 14:50 So when people look at the, at the percentages, sometimes it's like, is that percentage really doing something? 14:56 And it's like, you know, is ratio of those hormones is the presence of that relic acid early on. 15:03 Think about you need to have embryo for this relic acid travel all the way to the outer, uh, layer of that, you know, corn able 15:16 to break down the ambulance. So we are helping the plant to be able to do that and spending that much energy. 15:23 Okay. So the, the, the benefit of the, of the product is it's the stress, it's the stress side. It's, that's, that's the, the number one reason. 15:33 It, it stimulates the, the physiology of that seed to be, uh, reacting faster, even if it's a cold weather, uh, even if it's wet. 15:44 Uh, but we, since we don't know what conditions you're gonna have right after planting, it helps a lot to have 15:51 that extra help for the seed. How is your inro different today than it was just two years ago or three years ago about the time you 15:58 and I started working together? It's different now. Is it the same? It's not the exact same mix, right? 16:02 No, we, you know, there there's no, of course there was never nitrogen in it, but there's no NP and K in it, you know, there's no NP and k 16:09 and, uh, we didn't always have insecticide. You know, now we have insecticide everywhere because we have dialed back the traits on the corn. 16:18 And now of course we're, we're looking at changing our PGR to a different, a different grower standard practice there. 16:25 It's constantly evolving. Right, right. Um, what about the spend? I mean, the person that says, 16:31 I don't know if I can justify this on the spend, you say you're getting three times, uh, return, so it's the, it's some of the easier money to spend. 16:38 Um, where, where is your spend now versus two, three years ago, say the same and just reapportioned it or added here and took out somewhere else? What 16:48 It's actually less, it's actually less because of the mpk that we took out, you know, as far as the, uh, the, uh, 16:57 like just one component, the traded corn versus the untreated corn, and the insecticide was $10 an acre, less to put in, 17:06 but produced 18 bushel, $10 an acre less, and, and, and gave you a net of eight more, you're saying? Yes. Yes. The, the, the untreated corn 17:18 plus the insecticide cost is $10 less than the traded corn, and it produced 18 bushel, the, uh, the, the PGR Now, 17:28 you know, now this is my first year with the Corteva product, but the grower standard practice, PGR, 17:33 is a pretty reliable six to 10 bushel. Understood. All right. Mario, get me outta here 17:39 because I, I just, I wanted to make this short and sweet about in furrow, uh, the person that is, uh, gonna start doing this, dabbling into it, uh, 17:47 maybe a little intimidated about it. Uh, Kelly already made the economic case for getting a planter with in furrow set up. 17:54 Now you give me the product and, and the agronomic, um, case for it, uh, in furrow on your planter. 18:01 Yeah, absolutely. And, and, and Kelly said it really well, uh, they, right obviously tied to performance in the field, um, 18:10 research not only even, you know, by, by tel biologicals, but research done by other companies, uh, 18:17 in the precision agriculture side have actually seen, uh, potential Terry Bushel loss if you have 18:24 un even germination in the field. So it pays a lot to put these components to help the plant get uniformity. 18:31 So from the omics standpoint, you will have uniform plants because you're gonna provide the tools that it needs 18:38 to emerge, um, even, and then start developing that root system that is needed in the early stages of development 18:45 and get to a really strong start. Four, if I stimulate yelling, cancer plus four ounces an acre is a no brainer. 18:54 Uh, Kelly's doing everything else. Uh, as I said, just those hormone co-factors, which are nutrients, uh, you gotta, 19:02 you gotta put 'em in there. If somebody doesn't have in Farrow, I will encourage to look into it because it's probably one of the best, uh, 19:10 money spends out there after your planter calibration, which I think is crucial. Uh, before you start planting, 19:17 When did you go to, in Farrow? When, when's the first year you used infer technology, uh, at your Atlantic Cattle? 19:25 17. Okay, so you're, you know, it's, it's not like, it's not like you were doing this 20 years ago. Uh, you know, no-till was 40 years ago you started doing the 19:34 in info thing and you're in your eighth. This would be your eighth plant with it, right? Yeah. All right. His name's Kelly Garrett. 19:42 We talked about some of this stuff before. I'm with Mar Mario Carillo. I said it, I think I, I mean, 19:48 let's face it, I'm an Indiana guy. That's perfect. And I never took Spanish. I, I mean, uh, all, everything I know is just from, uh, 19:54 going to restaurants and, uh, and drinking CVEs. All right, so, so if we'll learn more about the, the product's fortified 20:05 to stimulate enhancer and plus with a name that long, what's the deal, Mario? If the name that long 20:13 Has to be good, it Has to be good. If you'll learn more about that, you can go to Corteva. It is just Corteva and then Corteva, uh, 20:18 on the biological side, I presume. Absolutely. Got it. His name's Mario. Uh, we're with Kelly. Uh, more great stuff, you know, 20:25 and if you want to see this in action, we're doing field days this summer, June 13th. I am going to be at your Atlanta cattle in 20:36 Crawford County, Iowa. And I would like you to be there also. We are gonna be looking at all the field 20:41 trials, all the stuff. We're gonna have a panel at the end of the day. We're gonna talk about what you saw. 20:45 You're gonna take your questions. If you are a member of extreme Ag, which you only have to pay seven $50 a year, you get invited the evening 20:52 before for a dinner, where we're gonna have our business partners, people like Mario might be there, I don't know. 20:56 Uh, and we're gonna go downtown Dow City, and we'll be able to maybe have a beer and catch up with the guys like Kelly and me. 21:04 So anyway, that's June 13th. Mark your calendar. It's the second of our field days. May 16th in Madison, Alabama at Henderson's. 21:11 June 13th at Kelly Garrett's June 27th at Matt Miles in McGee, Arkansas, August 8th. We're gonna be in North Carolina at Matthews Farms. 21:18 On August 22nd, we're gonna be, we're gonna be with our friend that couldn't join us here, temple Rhodes, who is supposed to be on this call today, 21:26 but he's actually running the sprayer and planting today. Till next time, thanks for being here. 21:30 I'm Dave Mason, and this is Extreme Ag Cutting the Curve. That's a wrap for this episode of Cutting the Curve. 21:35 Make sure to check out Extreme ag.farm for more great content to help you squeeze more profit out of your farming operation. 21:42 Cutting the curve is brought to you by Simon Innovations. Don't let your sprayer's limitations hold you back. 21:48 Visit simon innovations.com and upgrade your sprayer's capabilities. Now.