Financial Fundamentals for the Beginning Farmer
10 Nov 2337 min 23 sec

Farming is a business with high capital investment and historically low margins. Successful farming depends on more than just high yields — navigating the financial aspects of the farm is crucial, especially when the farm economy tightens. We owe it to Ag’s next generation to prepare them with the financial fundamentals to succeed. Nutrien Financial’s John Maman discusses farm finance for the beginning farmer in this episode of Cutting The Curve. If you want your farming legacy to continue, please share this with the next generation! 

Presented by Loveland Products

00:00 We're talking about money, finances, and the future of farming. And the young farmer in your life that you want to continue the legacy Up next 00:09 in this episode of Extreme Acts, cutting the Curve. Welcome to Extreme Acts Cutting the Curve podcast, where we cut your learning curve with insights you can apply immediately to your 00:19 farming operation. This episode is presented by Loveland products. When it comes to crop inputs, 00:25 you need products that are field proven to deliver both results and value. For more than 50 years, 00:31 Loveland products has been providing farmers with high performance value driven product solutions designed to maximize productivity on every acre. 00:39 Visit loveland to see how their innovative products can help you farm more profitably. And now, here's your host, Damien Mason. Hey 00:48 There. Welcome to another fantastic episode of Extreme Acts Cutting the Curve. I've got John Maman with Nutri Financial on, 00:54 and we're talking about the business side of farming is a little bit of a subset here in the extreme ag cutting the curve. 01:01 We're talking about bringing the next generation in. Everybody talks about the lifestyle, the legacy. Oh, I want my sons and daughters to do this. What about the money? You know, 01:09 this is a business, and John just told me before he hit the record button that a young farmer, at least 20% of their income or more, comes from off the farm. 01:21 How are you gonna do this? Interest rates are high. The capital requirements to get into agriculture are prohibitive to say the least. We've got $15,000 farm ground. We've got eight and a half, 01:33 9% interest rates. We've got equipment, uh, prices going through the roof. This is an expensive endeavor, but there's a way to do it, 01:41 and that's why John Maman is here to talk to you. Please share this episode with someone in your life that you think is going to be the next generation. Maybe they're 18, maybe they're 16, maybe they're 25. 01:54 Hell, maybe they're 35, and they need a little refresher on how to make this all work. John, thanks for being here. 02:00 Thanks so much. All right. Thank, be here. So we, before we hit the recording button, you talked about who you thought this was appropriate for, 02:06 and I actually think you were being a little restrictive. You said, well, I'll talk about the, the next generation. 02:12 I wanna talk about the kids that are in F F A. I wanna talk about the kids that are getting outta college and coming back to the farm. I'm not sure it's just for them. I think it's for everybody. 02:19 So start me off. Uh, you said I gave a present. You said I gave a presentation. I gave a presentation on this topic. 02:26 What did you tell the people in your audience about this topic? Well, this topic really started a couple years ago. 02:33 I was a guest presenter at the F F A National Convention, and it, it resonates with me. When we look at, at the future of farming, 02:41 the future of farming is, is not, it's not me. It's, it's those individuals that are in the F F A program that are in college, that are actually out in the world after graduation, 02:53 that are building their, their base for their, their goals to be in production agriculture. And we, we talked about some stats, you know, the U S D A did a study and, 03:03 and those that are beginning farmers are 20% more likely to be dependent on off-farm income. Well, 03:09 that's 77% of the off-farm income for, for beginning farmers versus 56% of income, uh, is off-farm. For an established farm. That's a, that's a big number that goes to show that, 03:23 to your point, Damien, whether it's a, it's a brand new, I'm outta school, I wanna start farming, or it's an established farm. 03:30 There is a very large base of income that's dependent of off-farm income. And so when we look at the goals for, for young, 03:38 young farmers and individuals that wanna build their careers within agriculture, uh, so much of what you do, and you bring light to in, in, 03:46 in extreme ag in your podcast is, is around agronomy fundamentals that generate agronomy results. We're looking to hone in the business fundamentals that generate business 03:57 results for those that are ambitious and, and want to bring their careers into, um, production agriculture. We talk about it, uh, and, 04:08 and I've done this within the extreme ag thing where I say, I know that farm people love bushels, uh, 04:16 pounds of gain, uh, you know, uh, how to, how to get more outta that acre. That's great. It's why we're here. But there's the money side of this, 04:27 and we have to realize this is a business. And, uh, you know, the, the kids that you, you're talking about, you went to an F F A national Convention, fantastic, good for you. Uh, 04:39 and I've spoken to f f A audiences as well, and you wanna tell 'em, like, that's neat. And yes, it's a lifestyle. There is no lifestyle, 04:47 but there's not the business being out here producing the crops, you know, 04:52 propping your feet up and drinking a beer on the porch and looking out over the fields. That does not exist unless there's the business side of it. 05:00 And that's why I, I love this, this thing that you're doing. So a young person getting into it, what do they, what did you tell 'em? 05:05 What do they need to know? I would start off with, with the end in mind, if, if one wants to really become that full production farm operation, 05:15 there's a lot of sacrifice. And, and it starts with, with, uh, finding the mentor, understanding five C's a credit, 05:23 but really understanding at its core, the further one gets in their career, the more they manage people and the more they manage money. And as you said, 05:32 Damien, to be able to sit with your feet up on that porch have a beer, is, is a, is a rite of passage after many years of sacrifice in an industry to be able to 05:41 get to where one's at, to be able to enjoy that, that that sunset, if you will, with that, with that cold beverage in your hand. 05:48 And the money side of this industry changes so quickly. If, if you look at, uh, buying a car or buying a combine, uh, look at the change in how, 06:01 how quickly automobiles have risen over the last few years. Look at how fast interest rates have risen. 06:07 And so it's really understanding at a core what you need to ask for and how your story is perfected when you go in to be able to secure the 06:16 capital you need to be successful. And it could be a balance, very, very, um, clearly could be a balance of off-farm income and on-farm income to get started 06:26 as the number one, uh, part to recognize. But it's really around the five Cs of credit and how one prepares themselves for that conversation to be able to secure that first line of 06:38 capital. Alright. So, uh, again, we, we, we, we have to, it's almost like we have to preface it and we say, this is important, this is important, this is important. Why is it that if, 06:53 if you were at, um, if you were at, uh, business school, if you were at any other thing, 06:59 you wouldn't need to emphasize the importance of understanding the financials, but somehow in agriculture it's like, oh, yeah, I don't like that. 07:08 Maybe I'm wrong. There are a lot of entrepreneurs that don't, you know, that don't like concentrating on this, John. Uh, yeah. 07:15 I don't really like talking about money. I just wanna be creative. I wanna be a graphic designer. I want to be an artist or whatever. 07:21 And we kind of have that same problem here that the, the people in agriculture, I think if you went to that f f A convention and ask 'em their favorite 10 07:29 subjects, none of 'em would talk about finance. They would all be about, Or, or money, or, or managing people. Right? Uh, you think about the most 07:39 awkward class you could take that years later, I think is most important. And it's, 07:44 it's some of those communication courses where you have to give up and give a, give a speech. Yeah. Um, but yeah, as, 07:50 as somebody who has a soil science degree, Yeah, I can say that when you get through school with your, your hindquarters on fire, ready to get out and, and use those tools, 08:04 and the further you get, the more you're expected to be able to use those tools and be proficient in agronomy, plant pathology, soil science, 08:15 everything that you went to school for, you need, it's critical to be proficient on the, on the money, the capital, the people side, 08:23 because that's where a business transformed into a successful operation around, 08:29 Well, you said, you said something that's so accurate, and I do hope, and again, I hope our listeners are even sharing this with the next generation, 08:36 the further in your career you advance, generally, the more you move into a position where you're managing humans and people, I mean humans and money, and that's an interesting thing. 08:51 Like we just, we just recorded with, uh, Kelly Garrett, uh, one of the founders of extreme Ag. Does he, does he know how to drive a combine? 09:01 Well, hell yes. You know, are you talking about, uh, agronomically, whatever? But when you get to a point where you have significant amount of acres, 09:08 and you also have a couple of other businesses, you're managing a business, you're, you're managing people, you're managing the money side of it. Yeah. And, 09:17 and it's kinda like you just said, it becomes the cost of admission. You better understand the agronomics. That's like the cost of admission. 09:24 That's your ticket, right? But beyond that, now you understand the agronomics, you understand, uh, production agriculture, 09:33 but you also need to manage the business. And that's where it's usually managing employees, uh, and money. Yeah. You have to have that, uh, whether it's virtual or in person, 09:45 you have to have that, that couch where you have to coach people through life. Life happens in, in a business. So does, uh, so, 09:53 so do different financial pressures. And again, it's, it's working through that, that mentoring relationship, really focusing on the soft skills as a, 10:01 as a young adult, building the, the acumen to be able to talk to others, build relationships, uh, 10:09 learn how to properly ask for what you want to gain out of that relationship with, uh, whether it's a, a bank, whether it's a, 10:18 it's a industry company that you're looking to partner with. It's, it's building those relationships and then pouring oneself into those, 10:26 those industry resources along the way that, that continue the educational acumen, but also refine that, 10:35 that soft skill presence one has to be to be successful in building their business. 10:40 Hey, John, I'm a, I'm a 22 year old. Um, my, um, my dad mom just shared this episode with me. I am, I'm, I wanna be in production agriculture. What do I need to know? 10:53 You spoke about the five C's of credit. Let's start there. So the point is, a 22 year old that says, I wanna go on farm, 10:59 first thing you wanna tell 'em is it, it, it takes, it takes money. Uh, you're, you're in a, you're in a commodity business. Um, it takes money. 11:07 What do I need to know? Let's start with the five C's. Well, the first, first thing we, we talked about was that off-farm income piece. Yes. So expect to have another job first, 11:18 and then while you're working in that career building towards your, your production agriculture side of your business, 11:25 understand that the five C's a credit. And that's so hard for a young individual to get started because, uh, oftentimes, um, you're short in each one of these, 11:36 uh, character is really your reputation in the, in the local economy, uh, local community. Uh, that's the one that, 11:44 that hopefully by the time you're 22, you have kind of worked out. Um, capital is is one's personal investment in the operation. 11:52 A young farmer is gonna be very short on capital. That's where succession planning comes in. That's where, uh, again, we talked about off-farm income. 12:03 Off-farm income is going to be that source of capital that is the bridge into furthering the production ag endeavors that one aspires to achieve. 12:13 The, the capacity is going to also be critical as, as one gets older. Um, you mentioned, let's say we're, we're all back to being 22. Well, 12:22 you can dump a lot of capital into things, but as you, as you get older, you aspire potentially to be, um, 12:30 a husband or a wife or a parent and, and raise a family. That capital starts to get spread out quite a bit more than just on the business 12:38 side once, once you mature in, in, in your life as well. And so having that capacity to repay those loans is critically important because 12:47 your character, you know, is, is what others say about you in the community. Your capacity is your ability to actually go back and 12:57 repay what, what your character says you should be able to do based on your, your capital that you, you have in, in your business. Uh, 13:06 the collateral is, again, for a young farmer, very, very thin. You think about property or assets used to secure the loan. 13:15 A lot of farms are, are secured by crop leads. Well, if you're a young farmer and you don't have land, you're renting, um, you're looking to be, um, purchasing equipment for farms, you're, 13:28 you're a lot more leveraged than, uh, what an established farm would be. And so the collateral piece is going to be critical. It's, 13:35 it's important to make sure that, that that first endeavor is profitable. And so if you have to secure land, if you have to secure other assets, 13:44 you have to have assets to be able to secure in the first place. And so that's, that's really the next step. 13:49 And then the conditions are factors such as interest rate, purpose of the loan, uh, you know, a condition for a young farmer. It's, 13:57 it's not gonna be to secure a loan for that fancy boat, right? It's gonna be to source land for farming. 14:06 Yeah. And then other conditions like interest rates, we've mentioned, and we've seen the last, 14:11 the last 12 months have been the highest inflation we've seen in over a decade. And, and the ag sector and just life in general, 14:18 and prices for things that we once took for granted as commodities are now that much more expensive. My wife mentioned to me, boy, 14:27 I remember last year when eggs were 89 cents a dozen. They're four bucks now. Yeah. So everything has, has a cost attached to it, 14:34 and those costs have rapidly inflated, uh, no different than the cost of borrowing. And so again, character, capital capacity, 14:43 collateral and conditions are all of those things that gonna have to understand, because those are the, those are the fundamentals that they're gonna have to know how to leverage to be 14:56 able to have, uh, that vision and story put together of, of what they want to do, how they want to be successful, and, 15:04 and ultimately how they're gonna approach that, that lending relationship when they sit down to ask for that first loan, to be able to cash flow what they believe is the start of a great career in 15:15 production. Agriculture. There's always been this overriding theme from the time I was in F F A when, when I was at a convention that you might've spoken at. 15:27 I was hopeless. Oh, young person can't get in this. And I actually recorded an episode of my Business of Agriculture podcast and refuted all that. And I said, well, first off, 15:36 pretending that a young person can't get in this business is ridiculous. There's U S D A has a young farmer program. They have a beginning farmer loans. 15:45 They have like zero interest or 1% interest loans. Go to U S D A and see if you can get a beginning dry cleaners loan. Just go there and see if you can get a beginning. 15:55 I wanna manufacture asphalt shingles loan. Well, you can't. So there are programs because of the capital requirements more than any other 16:04 business. So I, I, I refute this because I get a little bit tired of poor us, poor us, poor us. I'm like, well, there, there ain't no, i, 16:12 I quit my job when I was 25 to be a political comedian. There was no U s d a beginning political comedian program. So there's actually lanes to do this. Um, 16:24 the thing is, it's, it's very capital intensive, and the margins generally are not good. So there, there has to be this understanding. 16:37 And you spoke about then off, off, uh, farm income that's been going on for a long time. I mean, that's not a new thing. So, you know, these, these people will tell you, 16:48 I wanna be a farmer. What do you tell 'em? You have to be prepared on multiple facets of your, your operation, right? You have to expect that, uh, you, you need that capital. And, 16:59 and that capacity to be able to jump into that, um, full bore, it's gonna take time. It's, it's gonna take those other, 17:07 other sources of capital from another, another job, right? To be able to get started. Um, I, 17:15 I also think that, um, you know, you really have to get good at, at locking in your business plan. We mentioned business fundamentals. 17:23 Yep. The minute you walk into that bank, it's, it's not a, uh, it's not a, a friendship relationship. 17:33 You're walking into a professional business meeting to ask for operating capital, which is going to be the lifeblood of your operation. Now, 17:42 these banking relationships are small, small town banks, um, small relationships, small degrees of separation in the community. 17:51 But it's, it's that, uh, it's that go time when you sit down. And so to be able to have prepared financials, 17:58 not something that got ripped off of QuickBooks, you know, making sure you have audited prepared financials, even if, 18:06 even if there's not much to show, have those professionally done, have a story of what you want to achieve short term with the 18:15 outputs and products you're producing alongside that off-farm income and work towards that long-term strategy. 18:22 If that goal is to fully transition to production ag and, and less off-farm income and more full farm focus, 18:30 have that plan. Inevitably plans change just, just like an agronomic plan throughout the year. But the ability to have a vision, uh, alongside a financial plan, 18:42 I think is, is critical, especially for a young person. You think about a 22 year old having that level of strategy that speaks to that character piece. Mm-hmm. 18:52 It shows that he or she has a very vested interest in being successful and a plan to be able to accomplish those goals. 18:59 And that's really that first big benchmark is being able to prepare oneself to have that first big meeting with, with a borrower. Not to mention, 19:09 we meant, we, we talked about, uh, collateral, they may not have any. Right? Yeah. So 19:16 Thinking about the fact that you might need a qualified co-applicant in some cases to get started, 19:23 depending on the scale and ambition of, of that transition into production, agriculture is also important. So again, it's going back to have those groups of trusted advisors and, 19:37 and knowing where you need to pull those resources at the right time to be, to be successful. Yeah. We're, we're gonna give a little strategy on that. 19:47 I want to ask you a couple more questions about, uh, the establishment of credit as a young person. Before I do that, I wanna talk about money and fertility. Now, more than ever, 19:57 you've gotta squeeze every penny's worth of available nutrients out of every acre you farm. Okay? You've got to spend the money wisely to get big return. 20:06 Titan XC from Loveland products improves nutrient availability and increases plant uptake. So you get the most from your dry fertilizer investment. 20:14 Visit loveland to learn more the product's called Titan xc. It's a fertilizer treatment, 20:20 and it'll help you maximize your fertility investment. So the young person, uh, that's coming into this, uh, says, Hey, um, you know, it's okay. I've got, 20:30 uh, mom and dad. I think that we see a lot of folks that then come into it almost like you're supposed to, oh, you know, you're the son, daughter, whatever. 20:40 You're gonna come into this. And they kind of get protected. They kind of get ushered in, 20:50 and then you'll see that they're all of a sudden 30 years old, and they're not really anymore business advanced than they were when they were 20:58 18. And you see this as well, well, yeah, I, I, you know, come in, mom and dad are the farmers, and I work for 'em. 21:06 What would be your advice to that person that's ascending into the business? I, I would, my advice would be, you, 21:13 you need to start being involved in decisions by a certain point. You need to start being more than just the kid that's kind of is the, uh, 21:22 assumed employee. What do you tell them? First of all, it's, it's a blessing to be able to have a family that can help transition an 21:30 individual like that. Um, you know, I grew up, um, in, in northern Indiana, nobody in my family had farmed, watched farms disappear from that area, 21:40 and now you'd have to drive an hour to be able to see it. Um, I used to put myself into positions where, um, 21:48 career days at school where you'd walk up and, and I knew I wasn't qualified. I just wanted to see how far I could get in that conversation before somebody 21:57 told me no. Mm-hmm. And, you know, in, in life, you have to get, you have to get used to hearing the word no. But if you can get to a no, 22:06 but I think you're in a much better position and, and starting to understand how to negotiate, how to navigate the noss to, to no buts sooner or later turning into yeses. 22:17 And if you're that young individual that's transitioning off of, uh, off of mom and dad's farming operation into, 22:25 into your own, I think to be a fly on the wall in those big meetings is, is important to understand some of the pressures and challenges that, 22:35 that your parents have gone through to build that farm. The sacrifice to understand that, um, you know, the, that that farm home is there, that barn is there, 22:47 that that ground is prepared because of those that went before you. Uh, understanding what really kept them from being successful, uh, 22:57 at certain times or what drove them to success at other times is, is critically important. Because, you know, Damon, we talked about the, 23:04 the whole goal of this, this discussion is, is helping young farmers during times of, of high capital costs, high interest, low margin, somebody's gonna be successful during these times. 23:16 Why not that individual? And if they have that leg up of, of starting with a family that, 23:22 that is owning that land and has that interest be a fly on the wall. Be, 23:28 be a be a sponge that soaks in every bit of that knowledge and, and invest yourself, 23:35 pour yourself into understanding what makes them, uh, successful. And, and as, as parents age where, 23:43 where you can relieve them and take on more and more of that farm relationship. And really, it comes down again to those soft skills. 23:51 You have to be trusted in those business meetings to be able to interact with those that are gonna help move the farm forward. And that's my biggest advice, 23:58 is refine those soft skills. Because it all comes back, as we said to people in money, once you keep evolving in your career, It's, it is an interesting, uh, assessment because the, the average person, 24:11 you know, that's in ag is listening to this, is saying, I thought it was all about understanding soil science. Yeah, that's fine. That's fine. And it's all about, uh, being a really good, uh, you know, uh, 24:22 operator. Well, okay. But yeah, that's soft skills. Um, from the standpoint of, uh, you and I have a couple years experience where things go 24:36 in the next few years. Uh, we know there's a little tightening. We know that we've had some really good years, uh, 24:43 meaning 2019 till right now we're recording this in the fall of 23, have been really good years in agriculture. Oh, 24:50 six till through oh 13 was, you could call it a super cycle. We've really, in the last 20 years, 24:59 only had about five years that were bad. And they weren't even bad historically, they were average. Um, seems like the other, 25:08 the other shoe's gonna fall, right? So where do you see things going and what would be your input to the young person that's, uh, 25:16 staring down the next 40 years of a career in this industry? I'd start off with embrace technology. Uh, look, look at, 25:27 look at how the business of agriculture has evolved in the last 10 years with respect to technology. Um, human, 25:35 human capital is going to be, uh, a critical enabler. But I think when you look at, at human capital, there's a lot of pressures on that, uh, 25:45 of just getting people to work on the farm, getting truck drivers to be able to haul grain, getting custom applicators To show up to, to show up, 25:53 Right? Right. And then sometimes the, the single most valuable person in that, in that relationship with, with a retailer, is that custom applicator, 26:02 because they're the ones that are driving the most expensive piece of equipment to make the most expensive application on, 26:09 on the most important piece of ground. And oftentimes it's, it's not the one that's maybe making the most in that, in that relationship. 26:19 So you're, you're paying somebody, you know, a, a, a fair wage, but not, not a huge wage to be able to drive the most expensive piece of equipment with 26:29 the most expensive product in it, with the biggest implications of the business. Yeah. And 26:34 By the way, it's a very interesting thing. As you point out, farm ground's selling for 15 grand an acre, you've got, like you said, 26:40 a million dollar piece of equipment. You've got, uh, the, the fertility, the inputs right now are obviously pretty high. Uh, 26:49 and, and, you know, you think about it like, wait a minute, that that, that applicator, that's a pretty important job. 26:56 It, it's a critical job. And, and finding the right people there are important. And so whether that's through, uh, a custom applicator, 27:04 whether that's embracing the potentials of what, of what application could be in the future with autonomous equipment, depending on, uh, you know, this, this is happening a lot in California. 27:14 Look at some of the groves. Those are all sprayed autonomously in, in, in most cases versus production agriculture where you're, you're ducking, 27:21 you know, fence lines and, and towers and everything else. Uh, I think it's really important to embrace technology, 27:28 and it's important to embrace, uh, both the agronomic fundamentals that technology is going to bring and it's, and the business fundamentals of how you can improve just the operation, 27:40 operational flow, cash flow of your, of your business through the, the new technology advancements that we'll see in, in agriculture. 27:49 Mm-hmm. Yeah. So, and, and, and all those things, right? There are kind of money when we, 27:54 we kind of preface this is all about establishing credit and, and that kind of thing. But that's, 27:58 that's a piece of advice that's not even really a, it's a not a financial piece of advice. It's just a good piece of advice. Um, your, your optimism is there. So is mine. Um, we are in a, 28:10 gonna be probably moving into a realm of consolidation. The young person that's, uh, in ag that is undercapitalized in an era of consolidation, 28:21 what do they need to know? You know, the, the vast majority of of farms in the US are still owned by, by family. So they're still owned, you know, they're, they're not the huge, um, 28:35 massive, massive corporate farms. I think, um, you know, getting to a point where, where liquidity and, 28:43 and repayment capacity are, or, or one is, confidence in both of those, I think is important. We look at, uh, liquidity in this marketplace, 28:51 it's harder, right? You have rising, rising costs. It's harder to turn those assets into cash right away. Making sure you have that plan, making sure, um, 29:02 you lock in the things that you can early are, are important, right? Locking in your inputs, locking in terms rates and incentives on financing, 29:10 locking in crop insurance, taking the risk out of some of the ebbs and flows of the economic cycle within a year. Yep. 29:19 That's a, that's a big one. Isn't that, isn't that a big one right there? It's huge because then, 29:24 then it takes some of the worry out of just year to year, right? And the, and the biggest, the biggest worries might not be equipment. 29:33 'cause an equipment's gonna be more on a, on a three to five year role potentially, uh, whether it's a lease or, or an installment. It's, it's taking care of the, 29:43 the little things and the big things that can cause the uhoh moments in, in just a normal season. And one, it's locking in prices on, 29:51 on key products, um, with, with the right terms if, uh, because again, a young grower's gonna need terms. 29:58 The other part is really making sure you've got a clear plan for how you want to ensure that for the, for the un, for the unknowns, 30:06 so that your cashflow remains stable. So that when you go into try to, uh, show the bank that you have the capacity to repay, 30:14 that you have the right business fundamentals in place, um, with, um, crop insurance, with, uh, 30:23 other lines of credit that are gonna be s supplementary to that, to that primary operating loan. Because again, 30:31 the bank banks these days may not loan a hundred percent of the, the overall farm needs, you know, 30:36 lenders like a nutrient financial on, on the input side. Um, equipment manufacturers have, have their finance arms to be able to have, 30:47 you know, promotional rates on, on equipment. Those are critical to be able to shed some of that, some of that onus off of that operating line to allow that to work, 30:57 to manage the people and the money and the day-to-day operations of that business. 31:01 And so it's really aligning those business fundamentals with the right agronomic plan on a seasonal basis so that you take the ebbs and flows out of that year, 31:11 and then keep building towards that long-term strategy of, of transitioning hopefully to more focus on production agriculture 31:19 and, and if possible, um, decreasing maybe some of the onus on off-farm income. Because in, in a perfect world, you would be growing enough to say, Hey, 31:29 it's time for me to step back from some of the other ancillary jobs and focus more on, on farming. And that's the biggest, 31:37 toughest thing I think for anybody to do, is to give up the sure thing of a paycheck to transition to what they ultimately aspire to become in that large production, you know, 31:49 agricultural, um, enterprise. Yeah. Yeah. I, I think that's right on. And, you know, we, we talk about making this, uh, sort of tailored to the young person. Uh, again, 32:02 we hope that you'll share this with the person that is, uh, you know, an aspiring or beginning or maybe mid-level at some 32:10 point. And, um, you know, there's, there's the ones that, there's the guys that are and gals that are working off the farm and farming, 32:18 and there's the ones that are, uh, moving into a family role. The family role part of it, you talked about, they're just the ones that are, 32:25 uh, you know, doing it. And you said, realize that you're in a fortunate situation because you are, you, you know, you are in a fortunate situation if it's something you, you choose to do. 32:34 We talk about the lifestyle and all that, but it doesn't mean that it's not gonna have its headaches. I mean, it is a business after all. 32:42 One of the most profound things that kind of speaks to this transition of, of off-farm income to, 32:49 to full production farming that I've ever come across. I, I visited a farm, um, in, in Kentucky, and, uh, 32:56 I sat down with the grower years ago to plan and plan their, their input purchases for the year. 33:04 And we went through how we can blend the best terms, rates and incentives for a customer. And he had a little boy sitting next to him with a, 33:12 with a green shirt and retractor on it. And, um, his son was about my oldest age, and he looked at me after we were done and he said, you know, he said, John, 33:22 I didn't know where this was gonna go. He said, my wife and I have been praying over this. We hope that this would go where we needed it to go. He said, I didn't, 33:33 I didn't mention this, but I, I just quit my job at my off-farm income job because I knew that if I didn't focus on the farm, 33:44 I would never get the farm to where it needed to get. He said, in the conversation we just had around capital management and interest rates and 33:53 interest savings, he said, you would not believe this, but this paid my salary for my job that I just left. And we didn't know where it would come from until now. And so, Damien, this, 34:06 this conversation hits home with it, it doesn't hit home in the boardroom of a large pharma can because it's the same conversation around value. 34:17 But this conversation hits home at the kitchen table where, where life is real, and these conversations happen every day. 34:27 And the more our farm community can equip the youth with this information, with the care to help them transition this farm in, into, 34:41 into young hands into the future, uh, of farming, the more these trusted resources, circle of influence that we talked about can help cultivate those relationships 34:52 for what will be the, the future of agriculture in our young adults. I think we're gonna leave it right there. 35:00 That's as good of a wrap up as I could ever put on it. So, uh, thank you very much. We do care about the next generation. 35:08 We are all about that. Guys like John Mammon with Nutrient Financial guys like me, more importantly here at Extreme Ag. 35:16 So share this with somebody that wants to get in this business. Share this with the next generation. More importantly, think about it yourself. 35:23 How can you help facilitate that person? We heard about the five C's of credit. We heard a lot about the, uh, the understanding of the, the business side of it, 35:31 about the financial side of it. And I like that last story about the farm couple in Kentucky. You sat down with them and ran through and, and, 35:39 and planned out and looked at the actual finances. And that guy told you, we've just now made up for the income I had with my off-farm job, 35:47 because it's that important, especially when they were talking about this kind of capital involvement. John Mammon, nutrient Financial, if they wanna find you, where do they find you? 35:55 Find, I think on LinkedIn, you're pretty involved on LinkedIn. Hey, find me on LinkedIn. Uh, I've got one email address and one phone number. 36:03 So if, uh, if you call it, it rings a thing in my pocket and, uh, and, and my email address. But look, look us up on LinkedIn. 36:10 Go to nut NutriAg and, and work with your local crop consultant. We've got a team of, 36:16 of individuals based across North America that can help you with this conversation and be one part of the overall, um, 36:24 circle of trust that you'd have to be able to help your young farmer, uh, be successful in the future. And certainly to an end of podcast, like, 36:31 like what Damian Mason is doing here to help spread the word on, on how the farm community can help help the future, uh, 36:39 of farming be successful. I, I, I, I love it. Thanks for being here. Until next time, he's John Mamma Nutrient Financial. I'm Damien Mason. 36:48 This is extreme nice credit curve. Please share this with somebody can benefit from it. That's a wrap for this episode of Extreme Eggs Cutting the Curve, 36:58 but there is plenty more available by visiting Extreme Ag Farm. For over 50 years, 37:03 farmers have turned to the proven lineup of crop inputs offered by Loveland products, from seed treatments, plant nutrition, adjuvant, 37:11 and crop protection products. Loveland has the complete lineup to keep your farming operation productive, and most importantly, profitable. Check out loveland to learn more.