PODCAST: Early Season Prevention of Corn Nematodes & Crown Rot
28 Mar 24

Do you know whether your fields have a corn nematode problem? Have you experienced crown rot? Chances are, if you have had these two yield robbers on your farm, you didn’t know about it until you made a pass with the combine. Preventing this two problems involved detection and / or selecting the right mode of protection. Historically protection has come from crop rotation, genetics, seed treatment, along with a dose of luck. Now you can address these problems early on by applying products in-furrow along with your on-planter fertility program. David Reif, agronomist with Vive explains chemistry and solutions to address crown rot and corn nematodes at springtime - before they can cause yield loss.

Cutting The Curve is presented by CLAAS.

00:00 Do you have your early season detection, protection, and prevention of corn nematode and crown rot? Figure it out. That's 00:07 what we're talking about in this episode of Extreme Ag Cutting the Curve. Welcome To Extreme ags Cutting the Curve podcast, 00:13 where real farmers share real insights and real results to help you improve your farming operation. This episode of Cutting the Curve is brought to you 00:22 by cloths where machines aren't just made, they're made for more with a wide range of tractors, combines, foragers and hay tools. 00:30 Cloth is a family business just as driven, demanding, and dedicated as yours. Go to cloths.com 00:36 and start cutting your curve with their cutting edge equipment. And now here's your host, Damien Mason. 00:42 Hey there. Welcome to another fantastic episode of Extre Ice, cutting the curve. I've got David Rife, he's 00:47 with a company called Vibe Crop Protection. We're talking about corn nematodes and crown rot, which he's actually going 00:53 to explain crown rot to me because I gotta figure out how this whole thing works. But the main thing here is if you wanna maximize your corn 00:59 yield and a year like this, you're gonna wanna do everything you can spend as little as possible to get as big of a bang 01:04 for your buck in a challenging environment like we're facing. How are you going to do that if you have disease issues? 01:10 We talk about early disease and detection, protection, and prevention of, of these, uh, two things, David. Uh, before we hit the record button, you said, 01:19 I wanna really concentrate on corn nematodes and crown rot. So tell me a little bit about what the, what goes on here. 01:26 Um, if I have these problems, they've probably already cost me yield before I even know it. 01:30 So you said, uh, do we need to talk about detection? So, detection, protection, prevention, corn, nematode, crown rock, get me started. 01:38 Right. So, um, By the way, David, Dr. Is with is with Vive Crop Protection. He's an agronomist. He's also a farmer in Michigan from the Saginaw Bay City. 01:48 Uh, the area where the, the big huge pin, uh, anyway, it's farm ground that a lot of people are like, they farm up there. 01:56 Yes, they do. Quite successfully. Go ahead. Yeah, it's, uh, it's a great area. A lot of, a lot of great farm ground. 02:01 Um, I grew up on a corn, soybean sugar beet, uh, farm and, and still help out there today. 02:06 So, um, always good to get in the fields for sure. So, we'll, we'll, we can start with crown rot first as a topic. 02:14 And, um, a lot of farmers seems like, as I go across the Midwest as an agronomist, I cover anywhere from, you know, Michigan down to Kentucky 02:23 to Nebraska, up to North Dakota. So I cover pretty much the entire corn belt. Um, as I'm working with farmers, I hear more 02:30 and more about crown rock problems, uh, whether it's university extension talks or just, you know, talking to farmers in the field. 02:38 Uh, usually what that looks like is farmers are, they'll, they'll typically see ghosted plants later on in the season. 02:45 So you start nearing those later season r, stages R five, R six, and you start seeing some, you know, 02:53 basically white plants out in the field and that are dead. And if you have a early dying plant, what's that mean? 03:00 Cost and yield, right. So, um, typically that can be a, a problem with crown rot or some type of stalk rot, uh, earlier on in the season. 03:10 And, you know, it, it shows up as a late season problem in terms of ghosted plants and lodging, um, which is no fun to combine down corn. 03:18 But that infection really starts in the first half of the season. And usually your, your stress plants, 03:25 your challenging planting conditions, you know, here in the Midwest, uh, cold, cold soil, cold soils, wet soils, um, you know, who waits, who waits for the ground 03:35 to be 55 degrees, uh, to go plant corn. Uh, I know some growers that were planting, uh, April 12th, uh, last 03:42 Year, wait, in Illinois. Wait, you're part of the world up there. You know, you got Lake Huron, you got the, all 03:47 that damp weather, I think even in July. Your soil in Michigan isn't 55 degrees. Am I right? That's true. Yeah. It's, uh, I, I have these conversations 03:56 with my brother every year. It's like, oh man, the weather's not right. But, uh, you know, it's, it's May 10th. 04:02 The calendar says, go plant ground, go plant corn. Um, and So, uh, is, is is soil temperature, time 04:08 and planting, um, in a reason that we get into things like crown rot? It can, it can be a part of it. 04:16 So it's, it's about, uh, it's about stress on the plant. And cold soil attempts basically means that corn is going 04:23 to grow more slowly, germinate more slowly, take more gdu to, to germinate, take more gdu to get above ground, 04:30 and it's just gonna take longer for that plant to get established and get growing. Part of the, part of the thing with corn, it's, 04:37 it's got a fast growing root system. Um, however, cold soils, you know, low phosphorus availability, low nutrient availability at 04:45 that time, that's why you see a lot of, a lot of that purling of corn leaves. Um, it just, if you have a slow growing plant, 04:53 those fungal diseases in the soil, because it's a soil disease, can infect the plant. And, uh, they, they basically harbor themselves in the crown 05:02 and roots of that plant. And as the plant grows up later on, um, they start to cause these, these, you know, stock 05:10 and crown problems that lead to lodging more ghosted plants later on in the season. So, you know, you might think of, 05:15 you don't see it till the end of the year, but, uh, it's a, it's an early season problem. Um, you know, when you, when you, when you, uh, 05:24 contracted it or the plants got it, basically. Okay. So you talked about then that's, that's what happens long term and what the yield drag on this, 05:32 I mean, are we talking It's probably safe to say it, it probably doesn't. You're talking lodging and dead plants and, 05:38 and, uh, just 20%, what's the yield drag? Yeah, I mean, it, it, it varies on how severe, right? Um, uh, I mean, it can be, I'm sure a couple percent, 05:48 couple bushel to, yeah, 20, 30 bushel. All right. Um, detection, you just told me how I detect it once, it's already obviously cost me yield 05:58 and there's no grain going in my grain tank in my combine. Um, protection and prevention. 06:04 Uh, when we said we're about early season disease and pest protection, it sounds like this is one of those, uh, an ounce of prevention is worth a, 06:11 a pound of cure kind of thing. So preventing it from happening is what we're looking at doing, I presume. 06:17 Yeah, so like I said, uh, plant stress is a big thing. Um, it seems like a lot of the literature I've been reading is just keeping, 06:24 keeping healthy plants, so having good foundational nutritional programs, um, and also targeting, uh, 06:30 things like fungicide applications as well. Um, pretty much all of our car crown, or sorry, pretty much all of our seed goes in 06:37 with fungicide seed treatments. However, fungicide seed treatments only last a couple of weeks, and you can still have a period of infection, 06:46 you know, up until it's probably up until that soil and the, and the, it gets warm enough to where that, that 06:52 that corn is growing fast enough to grow through any type of problems. Um, so sometimes an overtreatment of a, uh, fungicide. 07:01 Um, so vi vi offers one like called asteroid FC 3.3, and we've seen good results and, and from farmers and, uh, from university folks, uh, of 07:12 that product helping protect against crown rat or at least reduce the symptoms of it. Got it. So, uh, by, by the way, if you're listening 07:23 to this, as most of you do, you, you're hearing some really good stuff. Again, he is an actual farm guy. 07:29 He worked for one of the large, uh, chemical companies. He's been with five now for three or four years, and he's got, he's got actual in the field credentials. 07:39 Here's what you're missing if you're listening versus watching, we're talking about corn specifically. He told me we're gonna talk about corn. 07:46 His backdrop is soybeans. His video backdrop right now is a soybean field. So why David did this, I don't know, 07:54 but I encourage you, if you wanna see sort of, uh, this, I think it's to create this sort of, to create this sort of 08:02 conflict, like we're talking about corn, but the viewer keeps wondering, but why are there soybeans in the background? 08:07 It's because it's probably the best picture he had on his computer anyway. He had, Yeah, they're happy beans. 08:13 Yes, they look happy. Anyway, David and his wife just had a baby, so that's another thing. Congratulations to him. Um, early season disease 08:19 and PE protection on corn. All right, we're talking about this stuff. Corn nematode and crown rot. 08:26 Um, what, what can I do historically? Seed treatment, right? Well, historically, nothing, you know, and then 08:35 after that we started, how do, how do I, prevention of these two things has essentially been genetic or seed treatment. 08:43 Am I right? Yeah. Um, yeah, genetic hybrid. Hybrid, hybrid traits, or not really traits, sorry, but hybrid selection and, 08:51 and seed treatment has have been about the only two options. Um, you know, crop rotation, uh, can kind of help. 08:58 However, uh, typically your crown rot is a complex of diseases. So it can be zoia, it can also be part of pythium. 09:05 Uh, generally people focus on fusarium as the primary driver, which there's like eight different fusarium species that can, can infect, uh, for crown rot. 09:15 Um, but soybeans are a host for fusarium and r Actonia and pythium. Um, you get up to, to the sugar bean country, you know, 09:25 Okay, rotation doesn't prevent us. Not totally, no. Okay. Not totally. It can help a little bit, but 09:32 There becomes the issue of, uh, sometimes genetics, I can change seed that maybe has more resistance or maybe has worked better for me 09:40 or worked better for the guy across the road, whatever that should be. And then there's seed treatment. 09:44 But seed treatment does have its limitations in that, um, a seed treatment doesn't, it doesn't hold the, 09:53 it holds the promise of prevention. It doesn't hold the reality of season long prevention. Is that a good way of saying it? 10:00 Yeah. Well, I, I'd say I put it like the seed seed treatment protects the seedling. So you're talking, you know, small corn, um, there's, 10:08 and then there's that window from there to to V five V seven, where you still have opportunity for infection. 10:15 And, uh, this is where an overtreatment of an infra fungicide, like asteroid from five crop protection, um, can help 10:24 give you extended protection and residual there. So is that what we're talking about, um, is the i is then the tank mix. 10:32 And that's what we're gonna get into is, 'cause you're talking about doing this at the time of planting, I mean, 10:36 we're not talking about going over the top. You're, you're, uh, you want to talk about a preventive measure that can be done 10:44 on May 10th when I roll those planters, or on April 23rd when I roll those planters. That's what you're telling me we're gonna do. Right? Right, 10:51 Right. It's a ear, it's a, it's an early season problem. All right, well, I wanna hear 10:55 about preventing it in the early season. Before I do that, I wanna tell you my dear friends about Nature's. 10:59 Nature's is a company that actually, uh, David knows about, uh, and you should too. 11:02 You're one of our business partners here at the business of, I'm sorry, at the extreme ag cutting the curve. 11:07 And they're one of our business partners at Extreme Ag Nature's is focused on providing sustainable farming solutions and helping maintain crop genetic potential 11:14 for today and future generations. Nature's high quality liquid fertilizers powered by nature's, by Okay. 11:20 Can be targeted at specific periods of influence throughout the growing season via precision placement techniques as a means to mitigate plant stress, 11:27 enhance crop yield, and boost your farms. ROI go to natures.com. So anyway, the answer is if I can do something at time 11:34 of planting and it, and it, and it does more than just seed treatment, it gets me to the V fives 11:41 and the v sevens of the, of the crop cycle cycle. Um, and you've got a solution that is done at time of planning, 11:50 and it goes in my fertility mix, it goes in furrow. Right? Right. And I actually wanna focus on the commercial you just just said, because with with nature's other 12:00 That sounded co commercial, Paul Harvey. Paul Harvey did Wells Lamont gloves, and it just sounded like he was really, uh, a big fan 12:07 of Wells Lamont gloves, but it was actually commercial. Mine didn't sound like a Wells Lamont gloves commercial by Paul Harvey. 12:13 That's before my time. I know, I know. You're 33 years old. Paul Harvey is like, uh, dead 12:18 and gone by the time you even am radio. You even know what that is. I know what that is. I know what that is. 12:23 Anyway, so David, go ahead and give it to me, um, focusing on, um, what I just said about nature's 12:29 and then bring it forward to our, our big topic early season protection and more importantly, prevention 12:35 of the nematode and crown rat. Right. So you, so you talk about precision placement of, of, of nutri nutritional products in the furrow on the seed, 12:43 so it's ready and available to reduce plant stress. And we talked about how plant stress is a big piece of getting, of, of, of keeping that plant, uh, resistant 12:54 to infections of fusarium, oc, and pythium. 'cause a healthy plant, in my opinion, is a, is a more resistant plant to those problems, no question. 13:02 Um, with fertility, it can be challenging to add additional products. So the one reason farmers haven't used a lot 13:10 of crop protection products in furrow other than a few, um, you know, there's only a few out there 13:15 that are like L-F-R-L-F-C type compatible products. And so, you know, your, your f your options are vast, but your in furrow options are few. 13:24 And when it comes to fungicides, especially for corn growers, there's like, well, there's, you know, yeah. 13:30 Very, very few options on the market today. Um, and that's because fertility is exceptionally challenging to mix with. 13:38 And this is where Vive crop protection has helped solve a problem. Um, all of our, all of our products, 13:43 because of our patented, uh, nano polymer technology, allows us to mix our products with our fungicides. Our insecticides are nematicide with your pop-up fertility, 13:54 because I've been on a farm, I've plugged a planter. Uh, and, uh, it's not a fun day. And there's usually a, usually a couple, uh, curse words 14:02 that are involved with that. So, anyways, By the way, I, you get nervous when you start talking about throwing stuff in the fertility at time 14:12 of planting mixture, because yeah, like you said, if this is gonna make it like syrup, is it gonna make it so that all of a sudden this stuff can't, you know, 14:19 we are gonna hold this up. And as you said, when it's finally go time, even if the soil temperature's not at 55, you know, 14:27 the next week's, next week's weather forecast is amazing, by God, let's get those, let's get those planters rolling. 14:33 Oh, we can't because, uh, junior stuck something over here in the fertility tank, and now we've got a bunch of, uh, maple syrup. 14:41 Yep. Right. And yeah, it's, that's not a fun day. Like I said, I've been there. Um, anyway, so, so survive crop protection, 14:50 we've actually been able to help solve that problem. So we're bringing new products and tools for farmers. Again, we've got, we've got stuff that can help farmers 14:58 with, uh, crown rot. Um, we've, we've teamed up with some other farmers and done trials. Like, uh, I was at a field in Ohio this year 15:05 where we placed a trial. The farmer gets crown rot like year after year in this field. And he's like, man, if I could find 15:11 something that could help me here. And we did an asteroid trial and he is like, you know, I went out, I, 15:17 I physically saw less, fewer ghosted plants out in the field at harvest time. And I was, I was shocked at how well it did 15:24 for just keeping a crown of that plant healthy, the stock of the plant healthy. 15:28 And he said, again, it was a, it was a new option for him to help manage his crop a little bit differently than he, 15:34 than maybe he had been able to do before. Um, but if we wanna switch gears off crown rot and, and start talking about nematode, 15:40 'cause that actually can play into, in, into that as well. So, I mean, the way you, some 15:47 fun fungus can infect on its own without an A wound, right? Um, but what nematodes and, 15:55 and seg corn rootworm, for example, what do they do? They're, they're, they're chewing, they're chewing on your root system, which also opens up 16:04 an opportunity for fungal disease. I'm Sorry, you were asking me the question. I'm sorry. I was Your listener. I just missed that. 16:11 I'm sitting here drinking my ice water, uh, glancing down at my notes and I'm like, wait a minute. Did David just ask me a question? 16:18 I'm not the agronomist here, I'm the question asker, but, okay, so your point being that something that's fungal versus something that is in the, in the, 16:30 in the soil degrading my root structure, probably you need two different, completely different applications or treatment styles 16:40 or, uh, modes of action, I think was where leading with that question, am I right David? Right. And it just, if you have bugs munching on your root 16:49 system, it can open, it can open that plant up for infection. Um, you know, if you, the other 16:54 Weak the plant, and then once you've, once you've weakened the plant, you've degraded, its, its flow of, of nutrients, et cetera. So, okay. 17:01 Yeah. And, and listen, I Don't mind you asking me questions by the way. I mean, it's, uh, it's, it, it makes it, it, it, 17:07 it makes it more interesting for the viewer and listener when you ask me questions. That's fine. Yeah. It's like the inter interview, 17:13 the interviewee kind of thing, right? Yeah. So, um, what do you got here then on, on, uh, on nematodes? 17:24 You're still talking about if we can do something in the tank mix at time of planting. 17:31 Does it, the good question that the listeners are gonna have right now is, alright, well, we already talked about seed treatment 17:36 not having longevity. How is it you're telling me that you're going to handle this and have longevity? 17:44 I think that's gonna be the, if I'm playing the naysayer or the devil's advocate, 17:48 that's the question I'm gonna come out with. Yeah. And I'll, I'll I'll go one step further if you don't mind, because, um, growers are, it's, 17:55 It's your, it's your air buddy, it's yours, it's your air man. Well, growers are pretty, pretty familiar 18:00 with soybeans as nematode. You know, that's pretty ubiquitous across the, across the us and every farmer deals with that in some form or fashion. 18:08 Corn nematodes, on the other hand, are much less well known. And they, it seems like the more conversations I have, 18:16 the more fields I get into, the more problems I see from corn nematodes becoming more and more of a challenge. 18:22 Um, uh, one of our old, one of our sales managers in the Midwest, uh, he, he used to sell counter insecticide back in the day, 18:31 you know, or Daniel ffa. He is like, you know, I bet we sell more, we sold more counter in one county of Iowa today. 18:38 Or sorry, we sold more counter in one, uh, county of Iowa, uh, back when I sold counter than we do in the entire 18:46 state anymore today. And counter is actually really good nematicide. So it's not only corn rootworm product, 18:51 but it's actually a nematicide. And, um, so just the reduction in organ phosphate use, carbamate use has, I believe, 19:00 helped bring some other challenges to the surface. Like corn nematodes, they've always been there, they've just been suppressed for several years, 19:07 and now they're, you know, coming back into the fold. Right. Um, and they can, cause again, it's one of those things that 19:15 you don't know you have it until you figure out it's a problem. Yeah. And Then you've already lost, you've already lost yield. 19:21 And when you're discovering that is when, when do I, David, when do I discover that I've got a nematode issue? 19:28 Usually it's, well as the first time farmer, it's probably the, when you're going through with a combine and you see, you know, corn that's half the size 19:35 of everything else, and then the first thing you do is either blame it on the, You're talking about the plant, you're talking about the 19:38 ear, you're talking about the ear is half the size. It's, it's Ear is half the size. 19:42 It's, well, stunts the ear, but also stunts a plant. It does, it does both. I mean, a stunts a plant, which in turn stunts the stunts the ear. 19:49 Okay. Um, but as a, as a farmer, the first thing you think of is not nematodes and corn. 19:54 You think of fertility, you think of disease, you think of corn rootworm, you think of other problems, not nematodes. 20:02 Yep. Um, and the, the best way to test and detect is if you've got some hotspots in your field that you just know are, you know, typically sandy areas are, 20:12 are, are, uh, a good source for nematodes, but they don't always have to be in sand. I would target, you know, you look at your end 20:19 of year yield map, and if you've got some hotspots that you just, you, you just, no matter what you do, you cannot seem to get those things to yield better. 20:27 I would, I would start looking at nematodes. And the best time to sample for that is sometime when that corn's around that, you know, V five, 20:34 V eight timeframe, um, you know, it's 40, 60 days after planting. Um, we Talked about detection, and that's not really your thing. 20:42 Vibe doesn't do a, your, your, your company doesn't produce a detection, uh, method. Is that what I, how do I detect for nematodes? 20:49 I, I'm trying to think about how do I, how do I know if I have them at that, even though before I thi before the combine runs, how do I, 20:57 what's my detection method? Yeah. Soil sampling. That's your, that's your best, that's your best method. Um, so go to your areas of the field 21:04 that you know are stunted shorter, look a little bit rougher. Uh, you take, take soil cores at the base of the, the plant, 21:12 so in the row, um, and you, you gotta send, send those off to, you know, a, uh, handful of nematode labs across the country. 21:19 And, and that's how, you know, but you know, for that season, you're, you're too late to do anything. 21:24 So, um, you know, if you're confident that you have nematode problems, uh, there, there are things like seed treatment. 21:30 Again, they only last so long. Um, and, and so survive, again offers a, a, we do offer a corn infer and nematicide called Everland fc. 21:39 And that, uh, that corn growers have been really happy with that. So growers in Nebraska, Colorado, Kansas, North Carolina, 21:47 South Carolina, um, those are generally the hotspots that we think about for corn nematodes. Um, Georgia too. 21:54 But, uh, uh, again, Iowa, Indiana, Illinois, uh, the more fields I go to, the more, and we dig samples and, and send 'em off to a lab, the more times than not we find, 22:05 we find levels that are moderate to high. And, and that's about when you are going to have, you know, some, some yield reduction 22:14 and it can be, you know, three bushel to 10 bushel to, to more severe cases. So that's interesting. 22:21 So we're starting to see it everywhere, um, as far as the, the prevention goes. All right. So, and, 22:27 and we're not, we're not in any way doing commercial here, but we're talking about, you've got products 22:31 that go in my at time of planting and your confidence level and your farmer. If you had to go to your brother's, uh, your brother, your, 22:41 your, your business partners in the, in the Michigan farming operations, say, I'm telling you, use this stuff and it lasts year long. 22:46 There's gonna be a, there's gonna be a BS meter, there's gonna be a, yeah, great. I don't believe you. There's gonna be a, 22:54 there's gonna be a, I don't know if I need it. There's the first one. Um, how, why do I spend this money? I'm not sure I even have this problem. 23:01 And there's gonna be two even if I use it. I'm not sure that it's still gonna be around in July. I think that those are the two things 23:06 that my skepticism would, um, go to first. Am I right? Yeah, for sure. I mean, and, um, no product season long. Um, if, if there was such a thing, it would probably, uh, 23:19 not be approved by the EPA. Um, alright. So, you know, if you, we think about yield at the end of the year. 23:31 Yep. Uh, for, for any farmer that's, that's working on these contest fields or, or pushing their yields as hard as they can, they know that, 23:39 they know that yield starts when they plant the seed in the furrow. And where I'm going with that is, is 23:45 that if you have problems, 'cause nematodes are, nematodes are a problem before July, that's when they are a problem. 23:50 They're a problem. They're a problem in the first half of the season because as the, the top of the soil surface starts to dry out, 23:56 they go deeper away from the root zone and they become less active. Um, so they're most active earlier on in the season 24:03 and in those, in those early vegetative stages. So if you don't get a good, good root system underneath that plant early, uh, 24:10 you're obviously not gonna achieve top end yield. So with Aand FC specifically, we target that, those first 40 plus days, uh, of that plant for, 24:21 for residual standpoint, uh, from nematodes just to kind of help that plant get to a size. 24:27 Again, it's a corn has a big f can have a big fibrous root system to where it grows ultra fast. 24:33 And, um, and if you can get it to a point where it can outgrow the nematode, it's faster than they can have any type of problems. 24:41 Uh, you, you, at that point you won't see yield drag. But before that stunting stunted ears yield drag mm-Hmm. 24:50 So, all right. So tell me about the, the, the problems that you think you overcome of putting stuff in. There's a lot of stuff that's supposed 24:58 to happen at time of planning, David. There's a lot of stuff. I mean, these guys, extreme ag guys, they're putting out 10, 12, 13 different 25:04 things at time of planting. And you just want me to add another one and you want me to add it into my fertility mix? 25:09 Um, your, your, your answer to me is gonna be no compatibility issues. Is that across the board? 25:22 Uh, so we can't make other things mix better, but our stuff will mix with dang near everything you throw in that tank. 25:30 Um, we always say, is That the only way I can, okay, is that the only way I can use your product? 25:33 Is it is the only way for me to use your, uh, corn nematode, um, or crown rot prevention products? 25:41 Is it the only way I can use it to go into my fertility mix at time of planting? Or can I use it subsequently down the season? 25:48 So you can use it in forrow, but also fully early. Um, it's just our, um, I would say our, our, uh, shiny shining star there is the ability to mix 25:58 with your fertility because there's just so few products that can actually do that. 26:03 Absolutely. Okay. And then what products am I putting in my furrow for corn? Uh, nematode prevention. 26:10 It's, it's called AAND fc. And it's, uh, um, again, it's a, yeah, it's just a nice easy to use product. 26:18 Um, so, so planting, it's, it's as much agronomics as it is operational efficiency for farmers. 26:27 So again, growing up on a farm, um, I know what a springtime planting season is like when you've got your window to plant, you've gotta go plant. 26:34 And, and if you have any, a lot of farmers I come across, they, they hate mixing stuff. 26:40 They hate filling up the planter. They hate anything that causes them 30 extra seconds, uh, that can hold them up from getting back in a tractor 26:49 and putting more corn in the ground. Yeah. And that's where bio products really shine, is they can help help with not only usability, 26:56 but also operational efficiency and their good agronomic products. Uh, for the farmer, I know that you're the agronomist. 27:05 Uh, and so maybe we're not supposed to talk about money, but the person listening to this, you and I know farmers 27:10 and we are farm guys, you and I both, they're right now saying, all right, I might have a nematode problem. 27:17 I might be experiencing that yield drag. I might have a crown rot, uh, issue that I've seen before. How much am I going to spend on this 27:25 to go into my fertility mix at time of planning? Um, and as I'm right now starting to weigh the cost benefit. Yeah, that's always a great question. I've been watching. 27:35 I, I don't know. I look at my commodity price app is probably as much as I look at my weather app. And if you're a farmer, you probably know 27:42 how many times a day you look at those. Um, corn prices are, are receding, same as soybean prices. And, you know, uh, there was a farmer sentiment out there, 27:53 or a farmer barometer that said, net farm income's gonna drop by 25% this year compared to last year. 27:58 Yeah. So, you know, pinching your pennies is always one thing that, that we look to do first. And with Vive Crop Protection Products, um, 28:06 I guess first thing I'll say is what's gonna cost you more crown rotten nematode problems or, 28:10 or an input to help protect you from those? And I think we know that answer. You know, you gotta grow in these times and situations. 28:16 You have to grow the, the most efficient, effective crop that you possibly can to overcome low prices and, 28:23 and some byproducts for the right farm can help you do that. Um, byproducts I I would say are also very price very, 28:30 very well to the market. So a lot of our chemical active ingredients that we use are post patent. 28:36 So there, there's some price reduction because of that. And I would say, you know, there's, you know, there's a par, um, 28:45 An AC does $10 an acre get it done, 10, 10 bucks an acre, 10 bucks an acre gets it done, alright, give or take. 28:51 And then when you talk about temperature, this is kind of silly, but are there any other things when I think about, yeah, I'm, I'm admitting here. 28:58 Maybe my detection hasn't been amazing. I haven't dug up the soil and sent it off to one of the sample. 29:04 You know, everybody has soil samples. Not, not everybody, but most people are moved to the point where they're doing soil sampling, but they're doing it 29:10 for the macros. And maybe even the micros, they're not doing it. You know, one of my things would be, uh, it costs money 29:18 to know and, uh, if I'm trying to cut back, but I don't know if that's a place to cut back because knowing that you have this 29:29 problem out there, then you can manage for it. You can't manage what, you don't measure all that. You can't measure what, you don't manage 29:35 all that kind of talk. Well, you also can't manage for what you don't even know. So what's your recommendation? 29:41 Do we start by, do we go out and say, I've got to be sampling for corn nematode, I'd say is that from a farm to farm basis, 29:49 you gotta do some, you gotta, you gotta do the looking in the mirror test and asking yourself those questions. 29:55 If you, you know, have you had some challenges on some farms that you just cannot seem to figure out? 30:02 Um, because nematodes, it seems like is, is is the route that tends to show up in those situations. Okay. Um, uh, yeah, it is difficult 30:13 'cause you're, again, you're, you know, you're still, you're still talking about adding 10 bucks an acre to your, to your bottom line. 30:18 And we wanna make every single dollar count as, as farmers. Mm-Hmm. Um, so, you know, if you don't have those problems 30:25 or if you're unaware, um, y yeah, you, yeah, you just have to, you have to look at your, look at your field maps, 30:33 look at your yield monitor, uh, look at your, look at your agronomics for your farm. Look at your cropping history. 30:40 You know, could this be a problem on my sandy soils? Could this be a problem on my, you know, corn on corn for 30 year ground? 30:47 Um, and, and just, yeah, think about your operation and how you manage it and see if that's something that you, if you don't know, you already have that problem. 30:55 Uh, you just need to really think about your farming, farming operation. And, and if that could be a challenge, 31:00 What else do I, okay, so you're saying you, you would, I would get the sampling done. You're saying you would do it obviously on the places 31:09 where you are suspicious. Well, that makes sense. Yeah. Right. You're not gonna do whatever. And then once I do that, uh, 31:16 and if I, I think the, the target here is, especially if you've seen seed treatment limitations, because I, I think that that's, if I'm sitting here 31:26 as even the skeptical listener, I'm thinking, you know what? I think that I gotta do something beyond seed treatment. 31:33 And I think that's where the products that you're talking about play. But am I thinking clearly 31:40 Correct. So from a fungicide standpoint, yes. Uh, from a neum side standpoint, um, you know, that's usually, uh, an additional tack on charge from seed 31:49 companies to, to add on a nematicide seed treatment. Um, I'd say from a aland FC standpoint, it gives you, as a farmer more freedom. 31:57 Instead of managing all your totes of seed and, and which seed bag goes in which farm, you can just choose whether 32:04 or not to add aland to your infra mix on that farm or not. So it gives you, in my opinion, 32:09 a little bit easier flexibility to manage, manage the chemical that you put in for the field versus trying to manage all your seed lots 32:16 and your pro boxes and, and that logistical mess. Um, along with it there, You talked about the ease of planting, 32:22 and once it's go time, it's go time. I mean, how many ounces per acre when I'm, when I'm talking about juicing, my, uh, my fertility tank 32:30 that's got so many other things, you know, I've got so many things on, I've got in furrow, I've got the two by two, I've got, you know, 32:36 so much stuff happening on my planter. Am I talking about, uh, a, a huge quantity or how, how, from a, just a logistical standpoint, 32:45 what are we talking about, David? Yeah. For 30 inch row corn, uh, we're talking six ounces of alined FC and 4.2 ounces of asteroid FC in the furrow. 32:53 So it's, it's, you know, pretty low use rate. One Of those, I need one of those, or I need both of those. Well, it depends on what you're going for. 32:59 If you, if you wanna focus on crown rot, plant health, early season plant health, um, asteroid FC 3.3, if you are concerned with nematodes. 33:09 Um, and, and sorry, going back to crown rod as well with asteroid, um, if you are concerned about nematodes, then you, then you want to add in everland. 33:16 If you're, if you're not so much concerned about nematodes, you know, you don't have 'em as a challenge on your farm, 33:21 um, you know, everland may or may not be the right choice for, for your acre. Got it. Get me outta here. 33:27 We talked about detection, protection, and prevention of corn nematodes and crown rock specifically. 33:33 Uh, you, your assessments and you get out there is, it's, it's becoming more of an issue. 33:40 The nematode issue is becoming more of an issue even in, in historically, uh, places that the, 33:46 that it wasn't an issue. Yeah. So I'll just give you an example of this summer. Um, we were in a field corn on corn several year, 33:55 several years. Uh, it was in Iowa, and They do that in Iowa. They produce corn following corn, 34:01 following corn, following corn. They do that, believe That, believe it or not. Yeah. Ever heard You ever heard of that? Uh, 34:06 Yeah. So the grower, you know, you ask 'em, you know, have you ever had a history of nematodes? First answer, no. You know, I don't have a problem. Right? 34:14 It's always the typical response. And, uh, you know, we, and of, I mean, this, this was dark ground. 34:22 It was good lomi soil ground. Uh, the field looked fantastic. It was nice green, and we, we took soil samples, um, just 34:32 because we were like, eh, let's just see what's down here. And, uh, the nematode populations came back at moderate 34:38 to high levels, uh, on the farm. And we actually had an Alan trial out there, uh, believe it or not. 34:44 And, um, you could visually see it on the NDVI maps. So I, I, you know, I looked at, uh, like a climate field view, NDVI map, 34:53 and you could visually see it, you know, from the field level, you couldn't see seeing any difference whatsoever. 34:58 But from A-N-D-V-I imagery map, you could clearly see the difference. And the farmer was pretty, pretty shocked at the end 35:04 of the year, um, when he took the combine through. He's like, you know, I would've never guessed I had a problem. 35:10 And guess what it was costing them, you know, 5, 10, 15 bushels. Um, 35:16 Yeah. So that's, that's one big takeaway here. I said, you're gonna get me outta this. Um, and so when you, when you look at the, the, the, uh, 35:22 product you have here, uh, and the way you go to, you know, you about using this, are you being chased? 35:31 I mean, this is kind of, this is kind of like, there's not a lot of products that go about taking care of this problem this way. 35:38 Am I right? That's very true. Especially a company that's very focused on, on bringing new products here. You know, some, some other companies try 35:47 to dabble in this space, but spend all their time elsewhere. Um, so are we being chased by other chemical companies? 35:53 Uh, yeah. Um, some companies have tried to do what we do and, you know, frankly are just unable 36:00 to do it as well as vibe. Um, and that's just because our technology is so unique and, uh, it's, it's, uh, for the farmers 36:09 that have used Vibe Prep, yeah, I'll, I'll, I'll try to close it with this. Uh, we do a yearly survey of respondents and, 36:16 and what they think of our products, and 95% of the time it comes back as a, as a, you know, four or five out of five in, uh, stars, you know, um, 36:26 and farmers say they'll reuse our products and, and they'll say they recommend 'em to a friend. So it's the, 36:31 the customer satisfaction rate has been off the chart charts, which is, as a farmer myself is really cool to see. And you, you just don't get 36:39 that in the industry every day anymore. I, I like that. And then, because I don't want anybody to think 36:43 that we're out here just, uh, being hucksters, who shouldn't use it. I'm an Indiana farm guy. 36:49 Why do I not need to use it when, I mean, let's, because I think it's very powerful to say, uh, here, here's when you should, here's when you shouldn't. 36:58 Here's when you should consider this. Uh, here's when you probably don't need to consider it. Be honest. 37:03 Mm-Hmm. Yeah. So for asteroid, we'll focus on that. Um, early planting, cold soils, challenging planting conditions, that's when I would use it. 37:13 You know, if you're planting, yeah. If you're planting May 20th and the soil's 60 degrees and, uh, you're late in the season 37:21 and you know it's just gonna come shooting up out of the ground, yeah. Probably not gonna be a challenge. 37:27 Probably, probably don't need to spend the money. Got it. His name's David rif. The company's called Vive. You can find them@vivecropp.com. 37:36 Www vi VIVE vi cropp.com. David, I appreciate you being on here. He is a Michigan Farm guy, Michigan State grad agronomist, 37:47 and, um, just had a new baby. So congratulations to you. Thanks, Damien. Much appreciated. 37:52 Got it. So next time, thanks for being here. If you wanna take your learning to the next level, remember you can become a member of extreme Ag 37:57 for just seven $50 a year. You get direct access to the guise for question and answer platforms. 38:01 We, we go a little deeper on a subject. You get free offers, like you go Commodity Classic, for instance, from one of our business partners, natures, 38:08 who I already talked about earlier in this podcast. You know what else you get? You get data at the end of the year. 38:12 These guys tell you about their plots, their trials, what they did, what worked, what didn't, the rates they used, how they used them, 38:17 the timing, et cetera. So you get all that access to information, seven 50 bucks a year, it's worth it. 38:23 If you farm seven 50 acres, that's a dollar an acre. For God's sakes, you probably can justify this investment. Till next time, thanks for being here. His name's David, Dr. 38:32 The company's called vive vive crop.com. Before you find them, I'm Damien Mason. Till next time, extreme ag cutting the curve. 38:40 That's a wrap for this episode of Cutting the Curve. Make sure to check out Extreme ag.farm for more great content to help you squeeze more profit out 38:48 of your farming operation. Cutting the curve is brought to you by cloth where machines aren't just made, they're made For more. 38:56 Visit cloth.com and start cutting your curve with cutting edge equipment.