00:00 We are talking about cover cropping cover cropping strategies cover cropping methods why you would 00:06 cover crop the benefits of cover crop what happened in the soil? What is the proper plants to put out as cover crop? 00:12 And what can you expect when you get going with this besides being judged by your neighbors? 00:19 Welcome to extreme ads cutting the curved podcast where you get a guaranteed return on investment of your time as we cut your learning curve with the 00:28 information. You can apply to your farming operation immediately extreme AG, we've already made the 00:34 mistakes so you don't have to managing. Your Farm's Water Resources is a critical component to a successful and sustainable farming operation Advanced 00:43 Drainage Systems helps Farmers, just like you increase their yields up to 30% with their technologically advanced Water Management products 00:52 visit ads pipe.com to see how they can keep your business flowing. Now here's your host Damien Mason agrees and 01:02 welcome to another fantastic episode of Extreme Ice cutting the curve. We're gonna lead off this conversation with temple roads, temples 01:08 and affiliate with extreme AG. He's in the eastern shore of Maryland. That's right. They do have agriculture out there. If you're 01:14 like from the great Midwest you're saying what Marilyn grew crabs out there. Well, no, he's an agricultural producer and 01:20 he's doing good at in fact, he's a had a very high placing recently. The announcement came out from an 01:26 actual corros Association. He's like number one in Maryland and like nationally ranked number three or something. He can tell us all about that. We're 01:32 not here to talk about Corner. We're gonna talk about cover crops but as it fits in his operation, he's gonna be our lead off before we 01:38 let him tell you about his operation and using cover crops Kelly Garrett area in Iowa. One of the founders of extreme AG has some pretty 01:47 slopey ground out there. So he's a cover crop guy and generally, you know till guy Matt Swanson. Another extreme act affiliate in 01:53 Western, Illinois. Matt is He says been doing cover crops since he was in high school which dawned on him has been almost 20 years. So anyway, he's the youthful member 02:03 on this podcast. I've been hearing about cover cropping since I was a little kid Temple. I wanted to be an agronomist. I went to the 02:12 FFA national land and pastor and soil analysis competition in Kansas or in Oklahoma as it were like man, I'm gonna be an agronomist and 02:21 I'm like, you know what we need. We need to have cover crops out here holds the soil keeps things like from the dust bowl from happening in richest 02:27 stuff prevents erosion. That was 1987 here. It is 35 years later. We are still not doing cover crops. 02:37 Like I thought 35 years ago. We should be doing more of what the hell happened. Why are we not doing it talk to us about cover crops from your perspective because you've been doing it the longest 02:46 thirty years there in Maryland. So out here in Maryland, he kind of got up. I'm not gonna say he got pushed on us, but they had an incentive 02:54 program that started in 1993 how I came up with that number because I didn't know exactly what it was. My father keeps a daily log a daily 03:03 Diary of everything. So I got him to go back and he went back in the first cover crop program that he pulled a check out of that the state of Maryland did and 03:12 it was just on the Eastern Shore. It wasn't on the western shore. It was just in or specific watershed area for the Chesapeake Bay. They were 03:21 trying to reduce the nitrate in the phosphate that actually they thought was going in the bay so they came up with a program and they incentivized it 03:30 for us, you know very much like, you know fooling with carbon credits all these things kind of play together with each other. So the incentivized 03:39 that years ago, it wasn't very much money and it's gotten to a point. It's grown over the years and we've tried a lot of different 03:47 A lot of different ones. We've tried click Clover cover crops cereal green cover crops. Rye wheat and we've tested all of them on each 03:56 other and took all of them to yield. What we've found is, you know. A cover crop program for us and 04:05 our specific soil type what works the best for us is a Serial grain cover crop mixed with like a little bit of a legume in there that seems to 04:14 give us our biggest bang for a buck. We get the most return out of that. 04:18 It pays a little bit better on our so we are incinnovation on ours. It's kind of like it's a stair step 04:27 program. So it's it's a base payment that you get and then for doing different things you get paid a little bit more. If you plant prior to a certain 04:36 date you get paid a little bit more depending on your biomass that you get put out there. You also can get paid more in our area if you 04:45 kill it later. So if you kill it off after me first, yeah, you can actually get a bigger bonus for that. So we got 04:54 a big bunch of different programs that we use. We've even got cover crop programs where if you put up to three different mixes in 05:03 there and then you cover crop it and then you put cattle on that your livestock of some sort. You can get a 05:12 bigger base payment on that as well. Now it's a three-year lock in so there's a lot of different programs and wait 05:18 Wait, wait your time by all these programs and you know what, I get notices from the Farm Service Agency how my brother works with a farmer Service Agency. He's not telling me that there's 05:27 all these programs where you get money for when you plant how many different species you plant. How late you terminate. Is this something 05:33 that nobody else knows about or is it specific to the eastern shore of Maryland? It's specific for the Chesapeake Bay Watershed and 05:39 what about the rest of this Temple? You know, so, okay. So let me tell you this. So remember we 05:45 talked about the carbon credits. We had a carbon credit, um cutting the curve podcast and we talked about that and Kelly gets incentivized for 05:54 cover crops and different things through the the carbon credit program. Well, we can't do that. I can't play in both pools. They 06:03 that automatically gets cut out. So all these things that we have been doing that they put in place for us and our and our you know, Watershed our 06:12 area or whatever you want to call it. We can't play in both both ends. So I I Well, actually a couple of quick fire questions just do 06:21 cover crops go on every acre at cmf. Definitely our Farms hundred percent. I never said you cover crop everything. Okay. Let's go over to Matt's house. Matt Swanson. 06:31 You said you started doing this. Normally I'd go to Kelly. He always has a lot to say but I figure I'm gonna go to you because you are not in your head there for a couple 06:37 of reasons when you're listening to Temple You've been doing this since you're in high school, you didn't even you probably didn't even want to be in a groundless like me. 06:43 You probably even go to Oklahoma and the FFA thing and you probably like just think. Oh, yeah, like I already know this. So anyway, give us your vast knowledge, you know typical millennial. 06:53 So tip. So what we were doing when I was a kid was we were using them as a feed source for our stalker cattle. So over the winter any fee 07:03 that you can grow. You don't have to buy right? So you put you put crop on at time of harvest 07:09 meaning if you harvested the field and October you got something growing on it and the idea was then you have some vegetation you can put stalker cattle out there for most 07:18 of winter and they can be eaten for free. So typically well see typically what we would do is we would Ariel see that in the standing corn. 07:28 And then take the corn off you'd have a little bit of growth. You may have about a month where that grows kind of unmolested. 07:35 While we're getting new groups straightened out and things like that and then we would turn them out over the winter and that wouldn't be there entire food source, that would be a supplement. Right? 07:44 So turn them out on stocks now, you know typically in the past that would be just stocks. Well now you've got some oats growing or you got so basically did you use oats? Is 07:53 that what you used? We use oats, we've used cereal Rye we've used for the kale. So those ones I've heard about and that you 08:01 can go Ariel and the person that says wait a minute. This is crazy because I've heard about it and everybody's call has but there's probably someone 08:07 listening right now say wait a minute. So you're talking about going out there like in September end of September August. Usually 08:13 yeah August. Yeah. So what we want to do is catch a rain and get it established and it won't get very big but it'll at least get going. All right, this might sound 08:22 silly by the time you're going out there in August and our part of the world and you're in Western, Illinois. 08:27 Corn plants great big you're talking about putting oats oats weigh 30 pounds of bushel. I would think that an 08:33 oat would fly out of an airplane and then hang out on like one of the leaves on the corn plant until a bird 08:39 landed and ate it does it actually get to the ground? Well, I might but you're gonna rain a lot of it's gonna get down and then you're gonna win every time 08:45 it rains You're Gonna Knock some of that off and see it. So it's kind of like doing a Broadcast application with it with a spreader. 08:51 You just don't have the option to incorporate until till the corner comes off Ariel application. I 08:57 don't know like seven bucks an acre. I think's the number in my head if they go out and put fungicide on a field they charge more than that to broadcast seed something. 09:06 I have to look because it's been a while since we've done it. I think it's 10 12 now to do it Ariel and you still could justify doing 09:12 it putting this on but that was getting animal feed out of it. If you didn't have animal feed would there still be a payoff? Yeah. So 09:18 for us in my area where we have a combination of the black prairie soils and the timber soils Timber soils really respond to having roots and carbon 09:27 in them all the time. And it's probably not unlike what tint temples dealing with in his Souls out there. I would guess I don't know that I'm just 09:34 speculating but having those living Roots going all the time or as much of the years you can. 09:41 Can it just does wonders for soil porosity and water infiltration and a lot of thing erosion? 09:49 Excuse me on those hillsides, especially where you have beans the year before because beans don't have a lot of stubble. 09:54 So having something growing to open up the soil to get it in. Good. Well, that's one question and you're part 10:04 of the world. The soybeans are gonna come off three weeks sooner than the corn. Let's say I'd give you three weeks of germination. Why 10:10 wouldn't you just cover crop the soybean Acres? As soon as the combine goes through have a drill running behind them. You're not paying 12 bucks 10:19 an acre for aerial application. You can get a Serial type of a crop growing in there quite a bit sooner seems to 10:25 me that if you're going to cover crop not every acre wouldn't it be smart to just follow the combine after the soybeans? Well, 10:31 the problem is the cover crops that guys are a little scared of growing corn and cover crops and for valid reasons because I've had it work really well and I've had to go very very badly. You 10:40 mean the following meaning the next year and the next year if you don't have something that winter kills or you don't kill it in advance. We've tried planting Green in 10:49 the cover crops corn in the cover crops and sometimes it works really well. 10:53 And sometimes it doesn't work so good. So why? Typically, it's a nutrient tie up situation where the cover crops taken up a lot of the available nutrition and there's 11:03 since they're all since they're all grass plants. It's it's kind of too similar. Is that the thing? Well, it's it's guys attributed to Alley pathy and 11:12 there's you know hear that word a lot around corn and cover crops. Especially usually right you're gonna explain 11:18 that word to me and at least half of our listeners. Basically what it means is you have two grass crops and one grass 11:24 crop pisses off the other one doesn't grow very well. Yeah, so essentially the cover crop pisses off the corn crop doesn't grow very well. 11:30 Reality, what we have seen is it's typically a nutrient issue. Like you have a cover of growing crop that say first to make and get pretty big pretty fast. 11:40 And it takes up a lot of the available nutrition and if you don't have nutrition on your planter. 11:45 You know that corn plant is setting yield very early in its life. 11:49 And if you has low nutrition it's going to respond to that low nutrition. Even if you're gonna get to it later. Kelly you are a cover crop guy now, I 11:59 think that you've been doing it the least longest, but you've got the biggest need for arguably with the sloping less Hill type ground out 12:08 there in Northwest, Iowa. And you obviously are bought into it enough. You're now producing your own seed. You're growing some oats just to be used as cover 12:17 crops. So kind of give us your cover crop Journey. You know used to be my dad said it was hard enough to grow one crop let alone trying to grow too and he didn't want to do it and that seemed to 12:27 be a logical reasonable statement to me as a young man. Then, you know, like in 2015 we started growing wheat and then 12:36 we started, you know using that wheat as a cover crop because at that time there was a lot of talk about different species 12:45 of plants and things like this and you needed to mix up a lot of stuff multiple species. I kind of felt that as long as something was growing it 12:54 was it was better than nothing and we would just save some of that winter wheat seed used as the cover crops, you know, and then in 2016 after playing around with it for a 13:03 year or two. We we tried to be a hundred percent cover crops in our Northern latitude. It's hard. That's the reason for 13:09 the aerial seating here. You know, like by the time I harvest some 113-day corn you're gonna have a hard time getting it a cover crop to germinate. Yeah, you know, but but 13:18 now now we especially in our soybean Acres where we desiccate the soybeans and we're taking them out right after Labor Day we can get tremendous fall growth and we 13:27 well yeah, wait, wait just go to what what do you call it? Alopecia Allie? Allegory Alan Beal. What's the word again 13:36 Swanson? allopathic aliopathy if you're putting in I actually knew that and if you're putting in. A wheat after your soybeans that makes 13:48 sense. A lot of people plant wheat after soybeans, but then you're coming back and doing crops. I'm sorry a corn crop. No, don't you then run the risk of? 13:59 Matt Matt is correct, you know the weed suppression that things that go on there, but we do have fertility on our planet and we've we feel 14:08 that as long as we can get to cover crop killed. Terminated they don't like to use the word guilt get the cover crop terminated that it's okay. But Matt Matt 14:17 is correct. If you didn't have fertility on your planner, it can be a struggle. We one mistake we 14:23 made early on is we switched from wheat to Rye and we would plant like 40 50 pounds of rye and then all 14:29 that comes up in the spring and you're like, holy cow, you know that can be hard to plant through now. That's the reason we added the 14:35 oats the oats grow more in the fall and they don't come back. So we're two-thirds oats one third Rye so there are only be and we planted like, 14:44 oh we planted about 42 pounds. So there's only gonna be hopefully there'll be about 14 pounds of Rye growing instead of 44 pounds of ride growing and it 14:53 will be much less of a struggle to plan into in the spring of 23. I it has been a journey and I you know, I hesitated a couple 15:02 times you bend your head against the wall in a field with some struggles like Matt talked about but we kept with it and 15:08 I I think it's gonna be okay now, it's it's tremendous. Cattle feed. We actually just Chase cattle on Saturday off of a cover crop field and more pleasure 15:17 to talk about the the mix and I got some some stuff that I've read and I want to get your perception perspective on that before I do that dear listener and viewer 15:26 to Extreme as kind of curve. Did you know that corn stalks retain up to 80% of the potassium 40% of the phosphorus and 30% of the nitrogen that you applied to 15:35 last year's corn crop. Think about that 80% of the P. Okay, 40% of the p and 30% in the end is 15:42 out there still so With these kind of fertility prices, why wouldn't you look at how you can save money and boost your yields by extracting last year's 15:50 fertility for this year's crop. How do you do that by applying extract powered by accomplish to your surface crop residue exclusively 15:59 available from nutrient AG Solutions. And agerson is a great business partner of ours and you can get their products at nutrient AG Solutions. If you want more information about this contact your local 16:09 nutrient AG Solutions crop consultant about extracting resources from last year's corn residue. All right about all right. I 16:18 got something I'm gonna follow that up. I'm glad you brought that up. 16:22 So we're talking about cover crops and we're talking about the green root system and and you just brought up extract. 16:28 You know, it's a residue breakdown type of product. We need to talk about that. So we produced all of this Stover. 16:39 We I have a cover crop tool that I built which is basically a turbo to hook to an air seeder and I blow it 16:48 all on it one time. When we get done, we put a product like extract on and we're breaking down that residue and we're up. 16:58 We're trying to get it broke down put it into the cover crop and then when we're gonna when we you know, 17:04 terminate that new crop, we're gonna take that crap off because it's easier to turn that back into an organic form. So that 17:13 next crop can take it up and if you use products like these residue breakdown things these actually can I mean, this is some of 17:22 the things that we've been doing to help promote yield. This is a way bigger deal than people realize now going 17:28 back to what Matt and Kelly we're talking about, you know, some of the decrease yield to follow 17:34 in a grass crap on a grass crop part of that what everybody it's not just nutrients it is disease. You know, will you have a corn disease and 17:44 you have all this stove out there and all winter long? You've got this disease that's building and it's there. It hasn't gone anywhere that pathogen just 17:53 found another host that host is your cover crop. So in the fall Kelly and I've had extensive conversations about this when that crop, you know, 18:02 when you terminate that crop the cover crop and you're getting ready to put your corn crop in that's part of the decreasing yield, you know, 18:11 you think part of it is just it's it's grass crop on a grass crop. That's true, but it's not all that there is disease pressure that's in there that 18:20 we don't even realize that we have because when that pathogen goes from the host of the cover crop, it's gonna find a 18:26 new host. Well guess what it is. It's your corn. So if there's something that you can put in there like pre-axle or in your burn 18:35 down when you're terminating that cover crop that will help alleviate that go in yield. 18:43 Here's one of the things hold on Damien before you get started what to piggyback on what Temple just said essentially what you've done 18:49 by putting that growing cover crop in there is you've kept your soil alive for the that next to those 18:55 six months Okay. So we've actually done trials. Well, we've gone out and pulled temperatures on cover crops soil temperatures. I'm talking about uncover crops 19:05 versus bear ground or just stubble. And you get into a March and those soils are fortified degrees warmer under a good cover crop than they 19:14 are in a bear in a bear soil situation and that's all coming from biology by the way, so isn't that good? Because if it's 19:23 five degrees warmer, you're getting soil biology working earlier in the season. Yeah. So that's one of the great things about a growing cover crop in the season is that biology 19:32 is already going on those roots. So once your next crop gets planted, it really just has to move. Okay, you're not trying to restart that system in April 19:41 or May when you've replanned that crop. That same biology that that match talking about is also the same biology that's going to 19:50 help break down all your residue all throughout those winter months. So he's right that green root system is doing 19:56 a lot more than just save some nutrients wind erosion. There's a lot of things going on by keeping that soil alive. Like Matt said, 20:05 oh, I want to throw it out there that that thing that Kelly said I'm of the opinion like right now on my Acres 20:14 all have something there's either Alfalfa or the corn Acres got a tritical product put on them, which will 20:20 be chopped off for silage for that my operator and I was at the opinion I'd really have something growing out there meaning one crop is better than just bare soil. 20:29 But now he's doing Kelly is doing a one third two thirds, right? Oh mix Gabe Brown wrote the book dirt to 20:39 soil all about regenerative agriculture. I've read it and I agree with a lot of his assessment about you know conventional agriculture 20:45 is working against what soil wants to do and one of his big points is if you let an area of soil 20:52 Grow, it's gonna have not one species. It's not going to be a mono culture. It's gonna have multiple things and that's better. Should we now really be 21:01 talking if we're going to cover crop? Three species five species seven species. What should we be doing? So I mean for me personally, let's 21:09 get the one right first right? Because it's this is a this is a management step and it's a big one right to get management because you're 21:18 saying most people just Harvest and then come back in the spring and that's it. Yeah, you got it. So you're saying a whole other thing to your system right starting with something like 21:27 oh, it's like Kelly's talking about especially fall planted oats. That's kind of an that's easy button, right because the 21:33 oats are gonna die. Right you want to do anything with them in the spring as opposed to kale Rye or wheat, which now, you've got to terminate 21:40 them come spring right? And if you go out like this is a mistake that we made early. So we you know, we grow tritical for cattle feed and we're gonna plant that at 21:49 a hundred to 110 pounds. Well, guess what you plan a hundred to 110 pounds as a cover crop and then try to deal with it. That's a 21:55 problem. It's a really just thick is all good out. Right? It's five feet tall and it's gigantic right? It's not a good situation and I've planted beans into 22:04 that into five foot tall Circle and it does work and it works really well, but that is a gigantic management leap that 22:10 I was scared of to be asked the first time I did by the way you did that. Did you run through plans it and then spray it and kill it immediately or 22:19 hit it already been killed. And we I can't remember we either spray it right before right after but it's I mean, 22:27 it's something because I that's the first time I did I did it was somebody else's planner and he actually got a little ticked because we rubbed 22:33 the the paint off of the front of the toolbar. Yeah from it running over, you know, running the Rio. Yeah. Okay. So 22:39 now here out here are minimum requirement is that you can put it on your cover crop is two Bush was an anchor on zero range. 22:50 So it's a heavy heavy dose. Wow. What I was getting that is if you're gonna do this 22:58 Your note till gain better be strong. It's Point Blank period like you have to be strong because 23:08 It's that or you're gonna fight chemistry cold weather you can't get the kill that you want you can't get the burn down. So our first day that we can terminate 23:18 our cover crop is March 1st. So we try to go as hard as we can and we put as many products in there as we can 23:27 to make that system or burn down system really really hot to get the best burn down that we can because it is something that you're gonna fight 23:36 and it is not fun. These guys are right. So you're trying to work. I don't know you're trying to terminate as close to March first as possible. 23:45 So then they're actually is something that's not living in that soil. If you don't plant until mid lane April you got six weeks of no living 23:54 it's because it's so hard for us at 120 pounds for acre of zero green like wheat, it's so hard 24:03 to plant through. It's almost impossible now, there is some guys out here that have done it but 24:07 Their cover crop game is really strong. You know Kelly knows all the tools that have to be put on planners in order to make this thing really work. 24:17 Well and it and it does work well, but there is a lot that goes into it and a lot of battles that you're gonna have to fight. Alright in order 24:26 to get to this might sound just completely silly. But what if you use cover crops for the benefit of overwintering but 24:32 then you spring tilled I assume that first off the programs don't want you to do that where you are, but it would still work right? I know Matt and Kelly. 24:41 It's not that easy. No, I'd rather not tell them future. Yeah, so one thing you know, we'll kill yeah. 24:52 it go ahead Temple. no, Kelly was getting ready to say something good Kelly, you know kind of like 25:02 if we tear up a pasture that's been in brome or something like that and you try to tear up that sod I would rate rather 25:08 terminate it with chemical and no-till into it. I'm gonna have way more success with like seed to soil contact and things like that then trying to kill it it'll take 25:17 to to do it right in my opinion. It takes multiple passes of tillage across the field and we're defeating all the purpose. We're 25:23 doing with the cover. I I wanted you just I would think not to mention as you said you've got clumps of of Assad and a layer that's just 25:32 not gonna do it. Matt you were getting ready to say something about that point. Yeah, so there's actually I read a couple 25:41 of his books. There's a guy in Wisconsin that he's a hard till no till guy. He's also an organic guy now and one of the things that they've been working extensively with 25:50 the last 10 years or so is the is the green manure concept which is basically what you're talking about working it in as a green manure and essentially what they're doing is 26:02 they're using one of the new high-speed Disk type implements. Yeah in it 26:08 for him. It works very well. That being said that's a lot of tillage and he's pretty flat that's not something that I would want to do where Kelly's 26:17 at especially and about half of my Acres that would not be suitable. I think the idea of strip-tilling into a cover crop 26:23 is fantastic. But again, that's another level of management and another piece of equipment man you talked about when I said, you know when I was quoting the book and 26:32 all that, but there is really big A provable benefits to soil biology when you now use three or five or something 26:43 like this five or seven different species and I know a guy that's a cover an organic guy and not because he's a zealog because it makes better margins and 26:52 he does like an 11 species mix of cover cropping. Because it gets you know, you get bigger benefits kind of like synergistic impact on that. But you 27:04 said well, let's crawl before we walk what you've been doing this for 20 years. Why are you not to the point where you're doing seven species because you know our the 27:13 main goal for the first 15 years that was just feed cattle. Right? So we did oats turnips radishes things like that. And then 27:19 they all winter killed right? Probably five years ago. We did the planning green experiment. We did the five foot tall 27:28 soybean planning into thing and a lot of those we had added hairy vets to those as a legume that would overwinter consistently because we're 27:37 here out of that seed, right if anybody's ever messed with Harry b**** when you try to run something with lots of points through a field with hairy vetch on it raps on 27:46 everything. Which is a learning experience. Let me tell you and one that you will only do once I can just like a Vine. Oh, yeah 27:53 the vine and it wraps around everything anything with a point a row cleaner a closing wheel, which if you're a no-till guy, you've probably got spiked closing Wheels. Well guess what doesn't 28:02 work in Harry veg the spike closing wheel or doesn't work very well. Yeah least in its original, you know, okay. So 28:08 so Harry veggies a no no, but we could still be doing a clover and a couple of other things to 28:14 be bringing in the nitrogen aspect of it. So are you gonna go there? Yeah. So one of the things that I'm looking at so maybe to back up a little bit one of the reasons that we're really 28:23 doing it again is we had two experiences. We did that planning green corn experiment in the corn that year was not good because we didn't get the fertility, right? 28:32 The next year we planted beans in that and I could tell you exactly where that strip of cover crops or block of cover crops at because the beans were 10 bushel better and it 28:41 was bright as day square right on the yield map. So that was experience number one and this was a Timber soil. Okay. So Timber swells the ones we have the most trouble with are the 28:50 ones that are most responsive in my area to a cover crop. So that was that was number one. The second 28:56 experience was around the same time might have been the next year. I have a field I had to feel at time. That's mostly Timber 29:02 soil and we planted a cover crop in the early fall as early as we could get it on and then we put in hydros through that in. 29:13 Probably October November November probably. and that soil was so mellow when we were putting on hydrants on so this is one of my harder to 29:23 pull soils as far as volatility open went through that field pulled easier than I've ever remember it pulling in my life. So that 29:30 was the the two things. So one of the things that we're trying to do with the cover crop is ADD more grown carbon into our system 29:41 and the problem with soybeans is that they are carbon negative crop. Right? So essentially we're going backwards in our 29:49 soybean year as far as soil carbon goes. One of the things we can do with cover crops is eliminate that problem. So even if you just go to a wheat, which is grown 29:58 for cash. but you have the same benefit of having that cover crop grown over the winter and what we found in those rotations by adding those things in is 30:07 our soil carbon numbers explode in that situation when you keep 30:12 Those grass or those cover crops thrown in so going forward. What I'd like to do is figure out a clover. That's well overwinter consistently here because that's the problem we're 30:21 gonna have is what can we get to plant that will overwinter and how long do I have to leave it growing to get the nitrogen benefit out of it? 30:30 Okay. I got a question then for probably simple first, but I don't know probably both simple and Kelly as I'm hearing about this first off. I 30:39 didn't know that soybeans were a carbon negative thing think. Thanks, Matt. 30:44 Money if the state of Maryland or the FSA didn't give you money to do this. Can you still justify it Matt just use a real good example. He said I could 30:53 pinpoint where I got 10 more bushels the next year because he attributes to cover crops so cover crops do 30:59 make you yield on your next crop and the average person to say, how would that be right disagree or that will work here? You tell me does it pencil out Temple? 31:08 Um and in my scenario basically what they pay barely cover seat cost and and putting it in 31:17 so it is most definitely about it for me now if we took that money away. To tell you the truth. I think that it's built 31:27 our soil and every year that goes by of all the cover crop in that that's happened. Every year our soul gets a little better a little bit better. If 31:36 you don't believe me look at some of the yields that are put up in the state of Maryland. We don't have Midwest grounds, you know, and and we're still putting up 31:45 good numbers. So I think that that's all due to the fact that you know, the state of Maryland for the last 30 years and Delaware as 31:54 well. But I mean, they've been really adamant about getting this cover crop program out there. So it's made us 32:00 be better Farmers, you know, we talked about the fact of you know, or nutrient management plan. I think that it's made 32:06 us out here be better farmers pay more attention. This is no different. Can you give me a dollar amount Kelly that you think that because it costs 32:15 you something to go out there and drive around and plant this stuff. You got a hired guy. You've got the Peace of equipment you get the 32:21 diesel. You've obviously got, you know, then the cost of Seed even though well, I grew it myself. Well, if you didn't grow oats 32:27 to stick in your mix, you could sell those out. So there's guys there's cost. 32:31 this cost you know, we're But as far as growing it ourself, when you look at the the cost of purchasing that versus raising it, I don't 32:40 think there's a lot of costs there one versus the other there is a cost to having that drill going out through the tractor The Hired guy the fuel, you know, but the 32:49 long term Source cost of putting 20 of your acres in the oats to become cover crop that could be 20 acres that's producing corn to 32:55 go to the elevator. It there is but that's what I mean. If you look at if you look at what I would have to go purchase the 33:02 oats floor versus the corn. I I don't think it's a lot in what we try to do is put you know, the oats or the Rye or even the winter wheat crop. We try to 33:11 put that on on soils that we think need a little help from a soil Health perspective the more crops in your rotation healthier. Your soil will be the 33:20 better your yields will be so we're trying to do that to put a number on it though. It's him. That's I can't I believe 33:26 it helps. I believe it helps but I can't put enough like man you give me a number man that you say how much is gonna cost me to plant cover crops. I'm gonna do it 33:35 on a thousand of my acres and my talking 25 bucks. You could probably get it done for 25 depending on what you want to spend we and you know in in my area 33:45 and I assume Kelly's as well, you know, we have programs like equip and some of these other things that are still government programs that that 33:51 will pay depending on what you're doing now versus what you're going to try. So okay you that there are 33:57 several. Large Growers around us that have utilized the equipped to get started. Yep. And once they're they quit using 34:05 equip, they continue to cover crop. So I think that probably tells you what they're seeing. Yeah, it sounds like there's there's a bit 34:11 of it. And they're doing there are seating system is the same as as temples. They use a sulfur tool or 34:18 vertical tillage tool with a with an air seeder and have something they have a custom applied. So they're not even doing it themselves. But then they grow like Kelly does they're 34:27 growing their own seed to bring their costume. Well, I just I mean if we do use the number 25 or just say 30 bucks 30 bucks, then my benefit 34:33 is I get 30. I need 30 bucks of gain or thirty bucks of soil Improvement and you know, it's hard for Farmers because soil Improvement means 30 years 34:42 40 years 50 years you're talking about creating a better asset, but it's not gonna necessarily pay you back tomorrow. 34:49 No, it's not but I think in that you'll start to see some results, you know for us. It was year two and that one particular situation, but the tougher the soil is 34:59 The quicker those results are probably going to happen. If you have a beautiful soil. That's well drained. It's gonna take you longer to see those benefits 35:05 in my experience. But all right Kelly in a previous episode. You said the number one. What's the the most yield limiting or money limiting 35:14 statement and agriculture as we've always done it this way. Well baby agriculture as we've always done it this way. I'm going through you little rapid fire here 35:23 because I hear this all time last good for Kelly and Matt and Temple to talk about this, but that won't work admire. Yeah. 35:30 Answer me. I've heard this about everything whether it's cover crops or anything. But yes. 35:36 If you can't take 10% of your acres and do a little research trial, you're already broken. You just don't know. 35:41 Why would they say Matt that this can't work in my area because I hear it all the time. Okay, even our own Matt miles tells you he 35:47 can't do cover crops because it'll get in the way of his flood irrigation or something like that. What's your answer to the people say it won't work. 35:53 Well, I mean there's obstacles everything right? I mean, you know for us it's a it's a what's the Harvest timing? What's the crop going in? Yeah again, 36:02 I know Matt's tried cover crops because I've been down there when he's had some and it's a management practice that has to be managed just like anything else but he's 36:11 also growing wheat and that's okay. I'm an Alberta. I'm our buddy Riley Anderson up in Manitoba, which they still they 36:20 actually pull their combines with sled dogs. I think he's gonna tell you that they can't 36:26 do cover crops because they don't have enough season after harvest. What's your answer to them Temple your smart guy? What should he think about? 36:35 Well, you know moving moving where where there's a will there's a way, you know, if you really want to do something. I don't care if you're Matt down south or 36:44 your rally up north. There's a million different cover crops that you can try and there's a way to put them on now whether you have to put it on earlier in the season to 36:53 get some type of benefit out of it. You know, I'm not saying that Riley couldn't go in fly a cover crop home in July to get some type of 37:02 benefit out of it where there's a will there's a way and we got to think outside the box. It can't be a tradition bound agriculture anymore. 37:12 I'm gonna go because an interest of time here Temple said If You're Gonna use cover crops, you got to make sure you are on top of your no-till game. That's why I 37:21 kind of got from everybody and then from Mass Swanson start with the one thing. Yeah, there might be a argument to be made for 37:27 seven species, but for god sakes, let's start with one or then two and they started because of livestock feed Kelly your thing. 37:33 Then I got those two brilliant statements for them. What's your brilliant statement on cover crops? It's good for your soil Health. It's good for nutrient availability. 37:42 It's good for weed suppression. It's good for moisture retention and you should give it a try and then my last one because I've heard this also, so I'm just going 37:51 with the thing the talk I hear well, I can't get the stuff killed termination is termination that big of a deal man. 37:59 It it needs to be done properly. Okay, there are some steps you got to do it correctly, but it's not that big a deal in my experience and some of 38:08 the stuff dies down when it's done properly, right? There's there's a way to do it. 38:13 but it's not that hard I guess is what I'm trying to get across and then the last ones for you Temple because you got the 38:20 most experience. I've heard about aerial applications like 10 years ago and then all the sudden it got blue over serial to the neighbors field and then they got a lawsuit 38:29 and they said we'll never do cover crops again. What's your answer to them? There there was some of that there was 38:37 some talk about you know, that was how we got Italian ryegrass spray around but there's so much that goes on here in our 38:46 area with the aerial cover crops. I don't do a tremendous amount of it just because if you have 38:52 a really really dense crop, it doesn't matter. If you have a really dense crop of your gay corn worse soybeans. 38:58 It's hard to get a really good good stand and if you can't get a good stand you can't good tillers. You can't get a good 39:07 root system established. Why are we doing this? So I took a stance back and said I'm not gonna do as much Ariel. That's why 39:16 we built the cover crop tool and we take care of it ourself and we get it in the ground right and and plow forward 39:22 like that. So there's again where there's a will there's a way you got to be able to get around that. This is a good thing. Not a bad thing. I think 39:31 it's a good thing. I think I'll agree. It's a good Thing I think there's a good topic. Also. I know when a little bit long it's almost 40 minutes. But you know what dear listener 39:39 and viewer you just got great information from I'm going around the curve here 30 years of cover cropping in Maryland 20 years for 39:48 Matt. And then what at least the last five to ten years in area in Iowa with Kelly Harris you're talking about, you know, 50 plus years of experience 39:57 here in three different geographies. So it's well worth your time. It's been 40 minutes with us as it would be well spent if you listen to any of our other stuff, please go 40:06 back and listen to all the stuff the extreme AG produces videos of these guys on Farm stuff where they're just saying. Hey one thing I'm 40:12 doing right here. It's amazing. It's great information. It's also all free you want to take it the next level become a paid member of 40:18 extreme AG 750 bucks a year. You're gonna get that much information like every week it's worth it. Trust me. Anyway share stuff with somebody you think can 40:27 benefit from extreme egg. Not far until next time. That's Temple roads of Maryland. Matt swanston vill. 40:33 And Kelly Garrett one of our Founders from Iowa. My name is Damian Mason. Thanks for being here. That's a wrap for this. 40:39 Up curve, but there's plenty more check out extremead.farm where you can find past episodes instructional videos and articles to 40:48 help you squeeze more profit out of your farm cutting. The curve is brought to you by Advanced Drainage Systems the leader in agriculture Water Management 40:58 Solutions.