00:00 Hey, we're talking about combine contemplations at Garrett Land and Cattle. It looks like there's gonna be a big switch in the type of soybeans they plant. 00:06 Come 2024. Welcome to extreme Ag Cutting the Curve podcast, where you get a guaranteed return on investment of your time as we cut your 00:18 learning curve with the information you can apply to your farming operation immediately. Extreme ag, 00:25 we've already made the mistakes so you don't have to. Managing your farm's water resources is a critical component to a successful and sustainable farming operation. 00:36 Advanced drainage systems helps farmers just like you increase their yields up to 30% with their technologically advanced water management products. 00:46 Visit ad s pipe.com to see how they can keep your business flowing. Now, here's your host, Damien Mason. Welcome to 00:55 Another fantastic episode, extreme Ag. Cutting the curve. I'm talking to my man, Mike Gro, 01:00 who works with Integrated Ag Solutions alongside Kelly Garrett at Garrett Land and Cattle, 01:05 and there's some big contemplations going on in fall of 2023 about some methods and some product changes for 2024. This is what I like to do. 01:13 I like to get with the guys. When the combines are rolling. We call it combine contemplations. What are you seeing? What are you thinking? 01:20 And what are you contemplating making different for the next season? You know, this is when it's fresh in your head. Come February, yeah, 01:26 you've had time to maybe go through some numbers, et cetera, but right now it's fresh in your head and there's a reason it's fresh in your 01:31 head and there's a reason you're like, you know what? By golly, this is gonna happen. 01:34 So maybe a big change going from one type of soybean to another. And we're talking about the chemical, uh, compatibility, 01:42 which you guys know a lot more about than me. So, Kelly, you told me this is one of your big changes. 01:46 You're pretty sure you're gonna make because of the combat combine. Contemplations, what are you doing? 01:51 We're gonna switch from enlist soybeans to Dicamba. We've been using liberty as our chemical for six years. Uh, this year. The water hemp was challenging to say the least. 02:01 Some of that had to do with the dry weather, you know, the residual didn't hold, it wasn't all the liberty, 02:06 but Wind Grove is advising us that we need to switch up the program to something different. You know, it just gets stale after a while. 02:11 All right. Mike Gro, you're sitting there. Um, is this a simple matter? You're the agronomic guy. Is this a simple matter of herbicide resistance? 02:21 Yes. So, um, obviously Kelly said he's been, um, and less beans last six, seven years spraying with liberty, and we've been throwing a residual in and with the dry weather, 02:33 it's been a struggle. Liberty's obviously contact only, but we've been adding a residual in and, um, of moisture wasn't letting the, letting the, um, 02:47 What the residual, Letting the residual, um, activate and hold. So we were trying to rely on the straight liberty. Yes, we got a great kill, 02:58 um, for the first 10 days, but that waterhemps got so many, so many growing points that we just gotta get the residual to kick in to kill 03:08 the growing points. All right, so lemme get this straight because there's a lot of stuff that's that, that, uh, we're talking about here. All right, so you've been with it for six years, 03:15 it's reasonable that after six years you'd have some herbicide resistance or some, some, some tolerant, some some tolerant weeds. Kelly's nodding his head, 03:23 yes, that's reasonable. Is this happen? Did it take, do we have tolerant weeds of Roundup within six years? We really didn't, or did we? I 03:32 Don't think the roundup within six years, it took longer, but that, that's the problem with Roundup. 03:36 Now that's probably the reason Dicamba came out. There's some roundup resistance stuff now as well, you know, diseases in people in cattle, uh, weeds in plants, you know, it's, 03:46 it's just evolution. Things are gonna figure out how to beat the system. Yeah, there's no question. Okay, so I didn't know this. So the liberty is a, 03:54 is a contact only. So speaking of Roundup, it, it, it only kills, it only kills what it sticks to. Yep. 04:00 Yep. Liberty and Roundup or contact work the same way contact Has zero residual in the soil. So to, to get past the resistance, 04:07 you're starting to see in your six wing grove, you said you started sticking in a spiker in the herbicide mix that had residual in the soil and it still didn't do enough. 04:17 Yeah. Um, we, we were just so dry, we never had the moisture to activate it. You know, a lot of those residuals take a, um, certain amount of rain. 04:27 Different products have different requirements, I guess. And, um, when we applied 'em, we just did not get the, 04:33 get the moisture to activate the chemist chemistry. All right. I wanna go to the chemistry and then we'll talk about the decision on the 04:39 chemistry. Uh, going to dicamba, this is something that I've been hearing about. You know, I got, I get around a lot of ag circles. Um, there's been, 04:46 I think since the second year of Dicamba being a product, then there was people griping about dicamba. What's the concern? It's volatile. 04:53 It's, is it the new version of Banville? Uh, which you talk about in the eighties and nineties. It picks up and blows a a township over and kills somebody's stuff. 05:01 You're a hundred percent right on everything you said. That's what everybody worries about. Okay, so how you gonna manage that? Or, or can you, 05:09 The, When Dicamba first came out, people were quite worried about what you just said, and we have never gone to it because I was worried about that as well. 05:18 But now so many people are spraying Dicamba products, you know, different products like around that, that you almost, I feel that I almost need to switch to Dicamba just to, 05:30 for a defensive reason because it's drifting from other places and it, it has caused arguments and things like that. I've never been involved with one, 05:37 but you always hear about, well, somebody killed me with dicamba drift, things like that. 05:41 But you can't even prove where it came from because it could come from anywhere. It can come from so many miles away. 05:47 I like it. Basically, it's kind of like in the old days, if you're gonna smoke weeded, 05:52 do it at a dead concert because nobody's gonna be able to find where the weed smoke is coming from at a Grateful Dead concert. Um, by the way, 06:01 there was a banville, uh, situation just, uh, up the road here for me. So I, I'm a little bit familiar with this. Um, answer me this, 06:08 aside from that part of it, which has some environmental people going crazy, but, uh, from a defensive standpoint, uh, 06:17 if everybody's using the stuff around you, that means that now you're not gonna have something that's dicamba intolerant, getting whacked by Dicamba. 06:24 But then do you think that we're gonna face this same thing in three or four or five years that we have a herbicide resistance thing with Dicamba? 06:31 Very potentially. We could, yes, because everybody's using, this is a great, this is a great analogy. If you can't beat them, join them. 06:38 We're finally joining them. And you're right. In six years or, or five years or seven or whatever it could be just like the roundup. And, 06:46 And, and hopefully, you know, by that time, the seed companies, they're, they're making all these flex beans, um, and less flex extend, 06:54 extend a flex. Um, I, I foresee in the future these seed companies just having all the traits in one, so we won't have to worry about the drift. 07:03 Alright, so speaking of seed companies, you guys are fairly significant, uh, acreage, uh, if a seed dealer loses somebody that's got 50 acres, 07:11 big deal. If they lose your acres, you, when somebody hears what you just announced to me via the Kaiser Curb podcast, there's gonna be a lot of people chasing you to try and make you reverse this 07:21 decision. Your decision's not fully made yet. Would anybo, would, would anything make you not stick with this, 07:27 this new idea you're gonna switch? Oh yeah. I mean, if somebody comes up with a viable option for a residual that we think could be dependable, we, we could maybe stay where we're at. Mm-hmm. 07:40 And we're not unhappy with the seed. The seed is fine. It's just, uh, and, and actually, you know, like it, 07:44 it's probably a little bit unintelligent to say the Liberty's the problem. Like Mike said, we had a good kill. 07:50 We just don't have a good residual program and we haven't been able to to come across one the last couple years. And this seems like an easy fix. 07:57 Yeah, we, It does seem like an easy fix, but that's what I wanna talk about. Wing Grove. Besides changing a seed, which then means a different, uh, 08:06 shuttle of chemistry is in the barn, what else needs to change? The person, the person that's listening to this is saying, you know what, 08:15 I've got the same problem that, uh, they're having there at Garrett's. I've been wondering if it's time to make the change and they're saying, 08:20 but what else do I have to change besides the seed brand and in a different shuttle of chemical? Is there any other change? 08:28 I, if I could make it rain when I wanted it to, that would be a perfect change. Yeah. Besides the weather, which you can't, 08:35 is there a compatibility thing when I start, when I start rolling around with Dicamba, does it change every other practice or every other product I use in my mix? 08:42 Or is it all the same? It's All the same. It, it will, um, with the dicamba will have to have to have a drift, um, drift agent. Um, 08:51 they have different requirements, so for the most part it will be all the same, but we'll just have to make sure we go by the label and cover ourselves for the, 09:00 for the ad drift complaints. And wait, Wait, wait. That's not to say that we don't always go by the label. Is it Wind Grove? Don't we always go by the label? 09:11 We, we do. I mean, if we did it, we would've strayed Liberty more and ke kept killing them, but we hit our maximum for our yearly, 09:20 so we just had to wait till desiccation to kill the weeds. Okay. Kelly, I always talk to you about money. Is the money the same? 09:28 Basically it's negligible. Okay. So the, the reason we're doing this is, is strictly a weeded thing. Do we think there is an actual yield drag? 09:37 We know that there are some problems and you know, you talk about this, waterhemp obviously is a very, very, uh, detrimental can be yields. 09:45 Did we actually lose yield this year because of not making this switch or because of finally the resistance built up? 09:51 Maybe a little bit in some severe areas, but again, it, that would be negligible, but you know, the fields aren't clean. You hate to see the problem get worse next year, 10:01 so it's time to make a change before we do see a big yield. Right. Um, and then Wind Grove, you're the agronomy agronomist guy here. Uh, 10:08 doesn't water waterhemp and, uh, Palmer Amreth and, and those, uh, species also exhibit resistance to the dicamba family 10:17 of chemistry also? Yes. Um, obviously weeds are getting resistance to all the cries. That's why we keep trying to improve 'em. But, um, 10:29 not having the dicamba on Kelly's for so many years, we shouldn't have any resistance to that is our hope, I guess. Okay. And then last question, maybe last question. 10:40 Should a grower consider making this change instead of after six years, 10:46 every two to maybe maybe change up the chemistry every two years just to maybe keep the weeds guessing? 10:53 Yeah, I probably waited too long. You know, wind grove to his, to win Grove's credit, he talked about this a year or two ago, 11:00 but I was resistant because everything was working okay. And why make that change? 11:05 And I was worried about the drift and things like that. We should have probably done this two years ago. Got It. Alright, anything, get me out the door here. Uh, 11:13 last statement from both of you we're making a change. It is pretty certain we're gonna do this as a combine contemplation. Uh, Kelly doesn't even sit in a combine all that much, but did you have to, 11:21 did the guys come back and tell you the weeded the weed pressure's worse than it's, than we've had. 11:26 I can see it from holding the steering wheel in my pickup driving by. That contemplation's been going on since before Harvey. 11:32 When I ask the, in wind grove, when I asked the question about yield drag, you, you nodded your head. Kelly says, it's Neville. 11:37 You actually think that there was, did we lose a bushel? Did we lose a bushel of beans? 11:42 It's, he said it's negligible because in the, in the bad weeded areas, um, yeah, there was yield, but I mean, as far as the whole farm average, 11:53 it's not, you know, a big, big factor. But, you know, it's probably a couple bushels though. Yeah, yeah. If you, you add, you add the wheaty spots in that where you're losing bushels, 12:02 then you just gotta have that much more in the non wheaty spots to make up for it. 12:06 All right. I promise you last question, I got my last, last question. Will this change the following year of the corn? 12:12 Does this change your practices or products for the following year on the rotation? 12:17 No. No, not at all. There's not, there's not an issue of being able to follow or months or, or timing or anything like that? 12:24 No. For, you know, the residual package that we'll choose to put with it, we'll make sure that it's okay to go back to corn, obviously. Yep. But yet, no, 12:31 it won't change. We'll make the decision so that it doesn't change anything. The following. 12:35 Have you mapped out what the re what the other, what the, the complimentary chemistry will be, Mike? 12:42 Um, not fully yet In the mix. Not completely yet. We're still working through everything and making sure we're gonna make the switch, but, um, feeling pretty confident today that we're gonna, 12:54 And, and there's nothing that's got a glaring problem with coming back the next year with corn based on timing, et cetera? 13:00 Nope. Awesome. All right. This is a big contemplation because you know what you're talking about, a lot of acres that are getting switched. 13:06 You're talking about changing your seed supplier, which sometimes that doesn't always, uh, happen seamlessly because there's a relationship with the seed supplier. 13:13 We're also talking about bringing in new chemistry and then also changing your practices and changing the mixes. So that's why we're doing this. 13:19 Combine Contemplations, Mike Gro integrated Ag Solutions. He's always a reluctant guest in case you're listening to this and you're like, 13:24 what's wrong with Wind grove? He seems nervous. He's, he's like one of those people that you heard about. He'd rather die than do public speaking, 13:31 but we're bringing him out of his shell very, very successfully. I should add, thank you Kelly Garrett for, uh, for the information. We got another, we got, 13:39 if you like, this episode we're doing compound Contemplations with everybody. Uh, you end of year harvest time, uh, things they're seeing, thinking, 13:47 and doing. And then, uh, if you like this, uh, share it with somebody that can benefit from it and check out another one. Until next time, I'm Dam Mason with extreme Ice cutting the curve. 13:57 That's a wrap for this episode of Cutting the Curve, but there's plenty more. Check out Extreme Ag Farm where you can find past episodes, 14:05 instructional videos and articles to help you squeeze more profit outta your farm. Cutting the curve is brought to you by Advanced Drainage Systems, 14:15 the leader in agriculture water management solutions.