00:00 Are you maximizing your fertility investment and the impact of your dry fertilizer? That's what we're talking about in this episode of Extreme Acts, 00:07 cutting the Curve. Welcome to Extreme Acts Cutting the Curve podcast, where we cut your learning curve with insights you can apply immediately to your 00:15 farming operation. This episode is presented by Loveland products. When it comes to crop inputs, 00:22 you need products that are field proven to deliver both results and value. For more than 50 years, 00:27 Loveland products has been providing farmers with high performance value-driven product solutions designed to maximize productivity on every acre. 00:36 Visit loveland products.com to see how their innovative products can help you farm more profitably. And now here's your host, Damien Mason. Hey 00:45 There. Welcome to another fantastic episode of Extreme Acts Cutting the Curve. We got Chad Henderson coming to you live from his combine. And Steve Sexton, 00:52 who is a Loveland Inc employee, uh, and agronomist, he's been on before. And last time I talked to him, he was riding around a bus in South Dakota and I was, uh, 01:03 being beamed in to talk to a bunch of customers, uh, maximizing your dry fertilizer investment Right before I hit record. Steve, I wanna start with you. 'cause Chad says, 01:13 this product that you were even talking about using is been around for a long time, 01:18 but the problem we seek to solve is getting more bang for your fertilizer buck. And before we hit record, I said in the old days, it was cheap. 01:25 You compare it to atrazine, take me down that comparison. 'cause everybody's familiar with fertilizer. 01:29 What they're probably not familiar with is how to maximize it by putting a treatment on it and getting more bang for your buck. 01:34 But let's go down the road of the history here. So Damien, uh, and uh, I'm glad to be on with Chad too. You know, I'm a baby boomer and, uh, 01:43 we started fertilizing in this country post World War ii, probably in the early sixties. And when we put out, you know, 01:50 a hundred pounds of urea, or a hundred pounds of triple super, saw some amazing yield results started out with atrazine, 01:57 half a pound the acre. And as the old timers would say, that field's as clean as a hounds tooth. Hmm. Well, when, uh, when the, when the weeds became, started to become resistant to atrazine, 02:10 what was our response? Was it trying to figure out why they were becoming resistant? No, we have to race Chad Double race one time. Yeah. Double up and catch it. Yep. 02:19 So, and I know some people, You know, what's interesting is by the way, that you don't have to be a baby boomer to know that Chad's Chad's younger than 02:27 you. And he knows that, that for years it was, well, if it's not working, put more on. 02:33 Exactly. It doesn't, They don't call me. They, they don't call me. Send it for nothing. Yeah. So Chad's all about send it. 02:40 So what you talked about there through atrazine is, you know, historically referenced and that, you know, 02:45 products like lasso or dual or whatever, we used to go out there and just, you know, open up the barrel and let her let her rip. Um, fertilizer, 02:52 fertilizer historically has been pretty cheap. Uh, companies that sell fertilizer like to sell it, they don't have huge margins on it. 02:59 So the way they go about it is sell more fertilizer. And I gotta tell you, I don't think that a lot of farm guys that I know treat their fertilizer. 03:09 So are we, are we wasting fertilizer money? I'll go with Chad first. Are we wasting fertilizer money by not treating it? 03:17 I don't, you know, I I would say there's always availability and, you know, the world we live in now, 03:23 when we talk about efficiency and sustainable and, you know, words we're supposed to use now and things as a farmer, you know, we look at, 03:30 we like, well, well, you know, we're trying to do better. And you know, like Steve said, you know, potash has been around since the fifties, 03:37 I guess it was, you know, but nobody thinks about, you know, and I've done it, I've done it when I started, you know, I've put out, you know, 03:44 a lot of potash trying to build soils and, and they would say, oh, we got it in the bank, if you will. But if it's not available, 03:50 it don't matter how much you got in the bank. You got a big bank over here, but you can't ever draw out of it. 03:55 It doesn't really matter how much it's in the bank and product. When we start looking into, um, product, 04:04 it's, you know, and when we start looking into it, you know, we we're, we're making availability. And this is a low cost and, 04:12 and low amount first comes to my mind ton. You, I've about like a paint per ton. Like if a paints good, let's put a gallon on. But that's not the way it works. It's about availability. 04:24 Alright. So I think the challenge here is reducing dry fertilizer tonnage, uh, per bushel produced. 04:33 And that's really where we're gonna be challenged. And Steve, I want you to talk to this. 04:38 We can't go out and fling atrazine around like we once did because of some regulatory environmental issues. I think we're gonna get there on fertilizer. 04:46 Uh, it's already happening in places like Temple up in Maryland because of the Chesapeake Bay. 04:50 And it's happening in Ohio because of the phosphates that got into the Lake Erie and caused an algae bloom. I think that there's regulation coming, 04:58 and this is probably a key to that, is figuring out how to reduce our dry fertilizer. Am I right or am I onto something or No? 05:04 No. Damon, you're spot on. Because the, the phosphorus calls that algal blooms, just like we have with the nitrates and potash, you know, 05:11 people don't think about pot ash, but it can be leached outta the soil profile just like nitrates. If we don't have the C E C, which is your gas tank of your soil, 05:20 your cat on exchange capacity of your soil, and then they not only need to look at their c e c, you know, we hope it's nine, 10 and above to hold more pot ash. 05:30 But if your base saturation of potash is a half a one or 1%, there's not many exchange sites that that potash can hold onto. 05:38 And so I see growers that want to just pour on the potash without regards to their soil's ability to hold it Damien. And they're losing it. It's, 05:47 it's gonna leach out. So, very concern. So speaking of leeching out, when I was in Alabama this, uh, spring, uh, Chad and I did a episode about cation exchange capacity. Is, 06:00 is this issue with getting more bang for your fertilizer buck a bigger problem for him because of low CECs than it is for Kelly who has good CECs? 06:09 Well, uh, Chad manages his, he stripped tills it, he puts it next to the seed and he may even put out a side dress, uh, of a potash. People most think, you know, side dress, I'm just, 06:20 it's nitrogen pertains to nitrogen. Oh no. When you have, when you have single digit CECs or low base saturation of potassium, uh, 06:29 then you have to put out potassium two to three times. You have to manage it like you do nitrogen if you're gonna get efficient use of it. 06:37 Okay. Chad, you've used the, uh, a fertilizer treatment that comes from their company, Titan XC by Loveland. You said before we record, this is not even a new technology. 06:47 You've been using this for a while. Why we talking about it now? You know, last year we done a trial on it. They said, you know, we, 06:54 we was searching for things to make dry fertilizer more available. You know, we're strip tilling and what can I do to make it more available and then cut 07:03 back more fertilizer. Is this, am I advocating right now? Oh, we gotta cut back. Oh, let's don't put out a fertilizer. No, I'm not. Um, I think, 07:10 I feel like we should use our soil test recommendations and, and plant uptake recommendations. And I think we stay on track with that to, 07:17 to build the crops that we need to build and to build the soils and, and everything to keep everything on target. But the answer is not either. 07:24 It's not about going out here and just putting a lot of dry fertilizer out. So this products, you know, 07:29 run at the pint per ton and you know, it just makes things more available. We started out and we was at around 200, 225 pound acre with a strip till rig. 07:40 Now we're down to 150. I've seen me running some at 75 or a hundred next year with this product. The last couple years we've shown great results. 07:49 'cause we're stripping these fields and we're stripping like 24 rows with it. 24 rows without it. 24 rows with it. And we're doing this on mass acres. 07:57 This is not a trial that's one or two acre deal. You know, we're stripping them, we're stripping a hundred, 200 acre fields like this, 08:03 and this is a second year row. We've seen positive results from this. I'm gonna, I'm gonna be like, Steve, you know, 08:09 I'm gonna quit trialing this stuff because you cost me money by trialing it. You know? 08:14 Yeah. So I you, and you kind of started going down the road. I was gonna say, is it that you're using the same amount of dry fertilizer and getting way more 08:22 yield? Or are you getting more the same yield with less fertilizer? Or is it even the best of all worlds less fertilizer and more yields? 08:31 Both. Both. You're exactly right. Damien. Both, like, we know that we can use the same amount of fertilizer and get the, get the yield, you know, back by using this product. I'm doing that. And, 08:42 you know, if they want me to try all that way, you know, me and Steve will start saying, well, all right, how far down can we go? 08:47 How far can we go? And I'm sure they've done this. Like I said, this is a 10, 15 year old, 10 or 12 year old product. Mm-hmm. Like they know it, 08:53 the ins and outs of it all the way around. But yes, I think I'll be down another 30 or 40 pounds of fertilizer with this product applied with it, you know. 09:04 Okay. So going back to Steve then, uh, you know, the historical, I think we're still there. I think we're still over fertilizing. Uh, 09:12 Kelly Garrett said in one of our recordings a year or two ago, when fertilizer dry fertilizer prices spiked, I mean, absolute huge run up. 09:19 And I don't buy fertilizer every day that we, you know, Chad does. But I know there was this huge spike in fertilizer prices and Kelly said, 09:25 unfortunately it took the economics of prices of fertilizer to make us realize we weren't being economical to begin with. 09:32 We were overusing the stuff because it was, it was fairly affordable. Are we still overusing it? 09:38 Yes. You know, Damien think how many growers are still fertilize in their fertilizer budget? They're budgeting one pound or one unit of nitrogen for one bushel of corn. 09:48 I don't know where Chad is, but I'll bet you Chad, somewhere at 0.6 to 0.7 units of them per bushel corn. There's some growers still at 1.2. Well, 09:57 let's take that to phosphorus and potassium. Yeah. How many are over applying that and then, and and they're not using it efficiently. Efficiently, 10:06 Yeah. By the way, on a money, from a money standpoint, Chad, how much are we talking about? You know, like if you're, 10:12 if you're at 0.6 or 0.7 pounds of in, for instance, for a bushel corn versus 1.2, that that's half, that's like, that's cutting your nitrogen by half. But you're probably not quite there, 10:22 are you? Yeah, I mean, we are on our dry land acres. We average in there around, you know, on a good year. 10:29 Like you come in there last year and I cut 60 bushel corn. Oh no, I'm not half, you know, I'm at 1.2. 10:35 But that's a drought this year where we're cutting a lot of corn. You know, a lot of averages in the field are coming out from that one 90 range, 10:41 that two 15 range. We are, we're, we're somewhere right now around 170 on that 200. So where does that put us at? Like 0.7 0.75 this year. Yeah. You know, but, 10:53 but if you pull, like I pulled a couple NC GSS out of there the same fertilizer and pulled 'em out, you know, that's a, something that's a standard, you know, 11:01 and we will be well over 200, you know, in those areas on up in, you know, mid two hundreds. So that gets it down there where it's really nice. 11:10 Alright, so let's go back to then the, the, the p and the K, the product that you, you, you used, uh, that Chad's been, you know, 11:18 been around for a while and he says it's beyond being a trial. You can go out there and do a massive field, a hundred and some acre field, 11:24 do a 24 rows with it, 24 rows without it, it doesn't do anything for the nitrogen, it's for the P and the K, right? Correct. Correct. You know what, Damien, that's correct. Uh, 11:34 Titan has been put on over 75 million acres. So people listen to this podcast thinking, okay, here they are flogging another product. Well, 11:42 you're people aren't gonna be Guinea pigs 'cause people like Chad have trialed it on their farm. Yeah. Growers, growers are the, you know, in, 11:49 in the Bible they talk about doubting Thomas and he was a twin. Well, who was twin? Everybody in agriculture we're all doubters, we're all skeptics. 11:58 And guys like Chad put it through the paces. The very first trial we did, Damien, was in 2010, uh, 12:04 eight fertilizer prices were higher than they were two years ago. And the grower said he had 150 pounds of p and 150 pounds of 12:14 K. He said, you're welcome to put it out, but I'm not paying for it. So instead we cut, we cut out three pounds of p and three pounds of K. 12:24 So he had a 80, 80 actual 80 p 80 K made. And the 77 77 with Titan made him 17 and a half more bushel. 12:33 So he cut out a little bit of p and k that would've been tied up or lost anyway and got 17 more bushel of corn. And that's what it's all about is, 12:42 is efficiency and making our growers more money All. So the point is, Chad, Chad, why are you That's where we landed, Damien. 12:50 Yeah. I wanna hear, I wanna hear the, I wanna hear your results. That, that's where we've landed at. That's exactly where we've landed. 12:56 We started out and the first year, you know, I just applied it and put it on there with it and with a strip tail, the way the pins and a ton tonnage worked. 13:06 This deal is a $4 5 cent an acre. And I was like, well, I'll just cut back like eight pounds or whatever it is, you know, for $4. I don't really know the math on exactly what $4 an acre would be, but, uh, 13:19 we cut back, we cut back a little pound. Well, this year I'm like, heck, I'm not gonna cut back. I'm gonna cut back more than that. You know. 13:26 So where we was running somewhere around that 200 pound range, like I said earlier, we was down to one 50. Okay? 13:31 We cut back 50 pounds fertilizer, we picked up 12 bushels and we was $4 inputs. I wanna go through this 13:38 Economic much. You do. Gimme, gimme those economics again. You cut back by how much you cut back by how much, and then what was the result? 13:45 We cut back, we cut, we're down to 150 pounds on our dry land acre. We're at 150 pounds of fertility. And that's just p and k in the fall. 13:55 And we're putting a pint of tighten, tighten on it, which is about $4 to five bucks an acre. Four to five bucks an acre. And we, this year, this year was a 12 bushel last year, 14:05 it average 17 bushel on our trial this year. We went across the whole farm with it and we stripped, I mean you, you, you gotta say that we went across the whole deal, 14:13 but all the other farms got it. We stripped one field. Like I seen a return last year, said, I'm not just trialing this on a little bit, 14:20 like we stripped one field to to verify, but, but what But our whole, the whole, all the strip till acres I had had it applied on fertilizer. 14:29 Okay. So the, the results are, are there, the question that, uh, somebody might be asking is, how does this work? I don't, I don't know how to, 14:37 I don't know how to put a, I don't know how to put a fertilizer treatment on fertilizer. I just, I call the co-op and they come out and spread the stuff. How does it work? 14:47 Liquid Ahead, Damien, in, in the soil microbes have to, they don't have mouth parts and they have to break down their, uh, the chemical compounds in the soil to access their food. 15:01 So they secrete metabolites and enzymes. Very powerful bio agents. That's what we capture to put in Titan. 15:08 So a titan is actually got the metabolites on it. The phosphatase enzymes to, 'cause we're spreading phosphorus in a form plants don't use. 15:19 We're putting it out in P 2 0 5 and it has to get to p o four before the, it binds with the hydrogen before the plants can use it. 15:27 And that's what, what's in titan to help convert it to P 2 0 5 to P oh four. Um, and it works very quickly. Okay. Now potassium, we're spreading the salt. 15:38 Wait, So you explain, you explain how it works in the soil. It basically, it, it allows, it allows digestion of the fertilizer by the microbes in my soil. 15:46 Yeah. 'cause we're slinging rocks, right? We're slinging, uh, salt crystals with potassium and rocks with, uh, 15:53 map or DAP or mezz or m e s 10 or M E S Z, it doesn't matter. We're slinging rocks. So the nutrient in that rock has to be made available to the plant 16:05 before it's the plant can use it. Okay. Then that's the, the chemical side of how it works in the soil. How's it work to use it? Chad, you don't go out there with a, a spray can and, 16:16 and spray this on dry fertilizer. How do I even, how do I, how does it practically happen? 16:22 Well, your, any of your fertilizer distributors, you know, they have a, a spray set up there while it's going up the ramp, you know, in the mixer, 16:30 either, either in the mixer or they have a spray sitting there and it's all, you know, scaled and, and, uh, 16:36 calibrated to where they just spray it onto the fertility, I mean onto the fertilizer, you know, the liquid form, 16:42 it's sprayed on the field and it starts that breakdown because these, right, I mean, the problem is that's why people back, you know, 16:48 we've always applied fall fertilizer, you know, it's fall. It's giving it that breakdown for the spring. You know, 16:54 some places you can only apply in the spring, you know, but where we could years ago, you know, you always applied the fertilizer p and k in the fall, you know, 17:01 spread fertilizer out there. Yeah. So then that's the next question. Is there a danger of getting this, uh, fertilizer out there and getting it broken down? As Steve says, you know, we're, 17:11 we're, we're flinging rocks does it because it is it, if I do it in the fall, and I don't really need that fertility until April or may have I have I used it 17:20 too soon. You know, it's so good. It broke the rock down. And they run in, they, they just run right through the soil. No, that can 17:28 Now, now down the aquifer. No. So there's danger. There's, I mean, even in your soils, you've got some sand, you've got some, 17:35 you've got some stuff. Chad, is there a danger of using something like this and then getting your fertilizer is all used up by, by May? 17:42 No, no, I haven't seen that at all. No. No, I haven't. You know, and Steve's gonna give you the exact details on exactly how it works, works. 17:49 But you've gotta remember too, what we're doing, we're applying fertilizer, we're putting it in the soil, 17:53 and we're putting it in a soil that's going into cool temperatures. So now Steve, go ahead and explain the rest of that. 18:00 And so in a better way than the, my No, that's fine. So, you know, Titan X exceeds a biochemical, it's a chemical. It's like bt, the BT protein for the corn, 18:10 I call it BT for the fertilizer. And, and it takes a while, Damien, 18:15 to convert that P 2 0 5 map dap or M e s e or m e s 10 or m map, m s d get it over to the PO four form, uh, 18:24 before it binds with the hydrogen, but it's there. And, and with the potash, potash comes in two forms, either potassium chloride, which is a salt or potassium oxide. 18:36 And so what we need to do is break that salt crystal down and, and, and potassium doesn't have to be converted. 18:41 It's k plus and the solar k plus the plant, and it gets caught in the clay layers. But we've done leachate studies, Damien, and in fact, and soil tests and in fact soil tests, 18:52 if people are putting on removal rates, the soil levels of p and k come up with a za titan versus where they don't mm-hmm. Pretty interesting. Yeah. 19:03 So by the way, speaking of the soil, uh, before we hit record, we talked about the salt content. Most people don't, 19:10 never thought about the fact that with the more fertilizer you flinging out there, the more salt you're potentially having buildup. Does Chad have, 19:16 does Chad have a salt buildup problem because of fertilizer? Is is there a compelling reason to use fertilizer treatments based on 19:24 just the salt? Chad? Oh, so, you know, I don't, you know, I've done a lot of trials. I mean, that's why it got me where I am. You know, 19:35 I was doing this stuff before extreme ag, you know, and, and when we started they're like, oh, we need to use him. 19:40 Like he's been trial and everything and I've done what people talk about and well, I'm, you know, I've got some extra money this year. 19:46 I'm going out there and build my fertilizer up and, you know, I've spread in, in, in excess of nutrients, you know, 19:53 in certain fields to do trial work. And I have yet to see it come around. You know, everybody's like, oh, in a couple years it's gonna be really good. 20:00 Well, that was about seven, eight years ago and I still ain't found it. But what I have learned about is salt content. And when you learn about a salt, 20:08 salt content, a fertilizer, you start reading up on it and what salt content is and how much it can take around the seed. And then out from the seed, 20:17 then you'll open your eyes to the kind of fertilizer you're using and what your rates are. And then trying to balance that salt content, 20:25 which led us into the strip tilling, you know, because in that center, I'm not affecting that ground. And my biology can, 20:32 can do as well as it can do for the ground that I have, you know? Well then I'm just only putting salt in an eight inch band. 20:39 So I feel like I'm trying to do the best I can for my soil, you know, by letting my biology thrive in the, in the middles, you know. 20:48 So the salt issue, Steve, is it something we're gonna be talking a lot more about one to five years from now? 20:56 Because I don't ever remember the discussion happening five or 10 years ago. It's kind of, and it's maybe extreme ag or guys like you open my eyes to it, 21:04 but I think it's, it's more of a, a new thing. No, Damien, in fact, this is where our Ozzy and Canadian brothers and sisters are way ahead of us 21:14 because like Chad, they banned all their dry fertilizer in furrow at planting. And they're very keen on what salt can do to, uh, germ to kill germination, uh, 21:25 a seedling at germination. So they're limited by the amount of phosphorus that they can ban in, in, in, whether it's, uh, cereal grains, whether it's canola, 21:34 whether it's pulse crops like chickpeas. They're limited to 30 to 50 pounds of map for the salt. But yes, Damien, as, as we, 'cause we've been blessed here in North Amer in, 21:45 in the United States, don't get me wrong. We've got wonderful soils. We got a wonderful infrastructure that allows us to get a lot of acres planted 21:53 quick, but we've always sort of gone just sling it and let's go. Mm-hmm. Those days are over. Uh, we got the plant as we go, 22:03 You know, and also, I, I wanna brag on our farmers a little bit, you know, Steve, on that, on that manner. You know, we, 22:09 we get to go around in the last few years, I've gotta talk to a lot of farmers, you know, and gotta learn from a lot of farmers. 22:15 And I think we have a really great, you know, generation or last couple generations of the last generation. And this generation has done a great job, I think, 22:25 of farmers of being able to not overuse. And we're doing a better job of taking care of the soil. We're doing a better job of seeing these, 22:33 these things that are coming down the pipeline from our other countries, you know, or other fellow farmers that, you know, are being restricted on stuff. 22:40 And we're trying to get ahead of that stuff and understand where our forefathers, you know, the, 22:45 all they view was to spread fertilizer and now we know better. You know, it's not that they were doing wrong, then they had no other technology. Right? 22:52 But now when we do do wrong, now we have other technology. We have products like y'all spent money and invested in for the farmers. 22:59 And so if it's, if we're doing wrong now, it's, it's shame on us. Can we reduce even more? I mean, you're already seeing yield result, 23:09 positive yield result with a reduction of dry fertilizer by putting the treatment on it that maximizes your fertilizer investment, 23:15 which is what this whole episode's about. Are we, as far as we can go or Chad, Chad, are you gonna get to where you're like five years from now saying, 23:24 I thought I'd cut back. Hell, I'm, I was still using 20% more than I needed. Do you think we're, do you think we're there yet? 23:31 Well, well it's, what we'll do is what, what we're gonna do is we'll hone in instead of being a broad spectrum like I did this last year with a thousand or 1500 acres of strip till, 23:41 we'll hone in on per farm basis and then we'll go to per field basis, then we're gonna go to per acre basis, you know, 23:48 and we really start honing in on that every acre as it is, you know, and like saying, Hey, you know, on this acre I gotta have more fertility. 23:55 This ground is thinner, this ground is lower, CCCs, this ground don't have organic matter. I gotta have some fertility. But this ground where it does, like Kelly was talking about, they have, 24:05 they have those things and the nutri and availability. So yes, I mean, the dry fertilizer is something that will be down to not almost nonexistence 24:12 with products like this, but it's gonna take, we're gonna be the, the American farmer will do be on that per acre basis. Yeah. You know, 24:21 You never used to build, well, like you guys are now doing, you know, variable rate fertility, that wasn't something that was done commonly. Yeah. 24:29 And some people still are not doing it. This seems like this helps the, that helps the effectiveness of variable rate fertility. 24:38 That's correct. There's no doubt, uh, Damien, we've done work with v uh, Titan and the V R T and, uh, we, we, they, 24:47 and they're taking units of p and k out because they're putting on pretty high levels of that V R T putting Titan in, 24:55 and they're getting higher yield responses mm-hmm. But 10% less fertilizer and that's not hurting their soil tests. And, and believe me, we base everything on soil test. Damien, uh, 25:07 like Chad just talked about, dialing it down to the, the acre. They're looking at what that soil can hold, what its performance history is, 25:15 what the fertilizer history is, what the soil test says is, is in that bank. Uh, because the, you, you, 25:22 we've all heard this stuff broad spectrum from companies coming out and saying, Hey, you know, cut your fi MP and K 50% and use our magic juice. 25:31 That doesn't work. That's not sound agronomy. We have to base it on. Well, well this is an interesting thing because obviously temp, uh, 25:39 Chad's buddy temple up in Maryland, they're the send it twins. They like to put more stuff out there, you know, they never met a pro, they, 25:46 but on fertility, this is the one thing where they're Absolutely, and cutting back, it's like, Hey, we're not gonna use more. 25:53 We're going to use less and we're still going get a yield bang on this. Is environmental stuff gonna come to Alabama? I think it might. Hell, 26:01 he's only five miles from, you know, the city. Uh, I think that Chad's gonna be having his hands tied also. Yeah. Well, I'm, I mean, I feel like I will, but, but again, I wanna be ahead of that. 26:12 I'm, you know, we wanna educate people on that, you know, because our deal around here next to the city, you know, is a suburban mom, 26:19 you know, uh, we wanna make sure that we're, we're doing a better job on our farms than they're doing in, uh, you know, I don't wanna slam the folks in the landscaping business, but we're, 26:28 I feel like I'm doing a better job on my farm than they're doing on some of the yards that their kids play in. Yeah. Right. But, but you know, that's here, 26:34 here, here, nor there. But, you know, if we all do our part and do a good job, then we can, we can keep this thing going. But you're, 26:41 you're a hundred percent right. Do I think I'll ever quit using dry fertilizer? No, I won't. I won't. I'm, I, it's my job as a farmer and, 26:48 and passion the land on the next generation to get the land in better shape than what I got it in. Yep. Yeah. So if that means some dry to it, that's fine. 26:56 If it's biologicals, that's fine. You know, whatever it takes to do. To go down to wrap pad, 27:02 Steve, when Chad says this is something that you, they've been using for several years, is there a next evolution of the product? Is there, is there something that makes this even better? 27:10 Is there like something where you can say, you know what, the next iteration will do this? 27:15 So, Damien, that's an excellent question. And I think, uh, Maud Hensey and her team at Agri and Sciences is working on this. What, 27:23 what we've identified and tighten the active ingredient is 500 different enzymes and metabolites. Mm-hmm. Now we know the two phosphorus enzymes, 27:34 and I'm gonna sound really smart here, Damien and I even stated a Holiday Inn last night, but well, Actually, what Chad and I are noticing, 27:41 you've got three different diplomas on the wall back there behind, just so you gotta be smart. 27:46 Those are my wiss. I ordered all mine through the, uh, male mailin. Yeah. Uh, but phospho, mono esterases and phosphodiesterase, 27:54 because Damien and Chad, where science is looking at today, they're not looking at the bugs. They're looking at what enzymes in the soil. 28:04 Yeah. Like urease enzyme. That's the second most predominant enzyme. We know how that degrades our urea. 28:10 But we also know phosphatase enzymes are important. Those are in Titan, but there's another one, Damien, this is really cool Now, soil health. 28:19 Mm-hmm. Here's one to remember mm-hmm. Beta OSA days because our soil scientists at U S D A and your Dr. Fred Belos and Dr. Andrew Markot at the, the, the, the, 28:30 the universities, they're not looking at microbes. They're looking at what enzymes they're producing. And beta gluc aase is the key indicator if you have a healthy soil or 28:41 not. Mm-hmm. If you're high in beta gluc aase, it's healthy. If it's not, you don't. And that's what we do. We bring it up. 28:48 Okay. So, and, and this is the fur, you know, that's, we're talking about a fertilizer treatment and you just went down the road of, uh, the, the, the stuff that's in our soil. And that's gonna be my, 28:56 my last subject here for us. Does Chad have a realization right now that, uh, the utilization of too much fertilizer has harmed soil biology? Yeah. 29:07 It's kept your NP and K up. That's all we used to, you know, we learned how to do soil testing, like you say, after World War ii. 29:13 We started getting a little better at this, but we'd only tested for, and now we test for some micros, but we don't have a soil test for biology. 29:22 And it seems to me that you could almost make the case just like overuse of atrazine. Chad, 29:27 do you think too much dry fertilizer as harmed soil biology in the last 50 years? 29:35 I mean, you can't say that it's helped it, that's for sure. But, you know, I don't know if, if, you know, we've harm, 29:41 if I've harmed it with that or if I've harmed it with the, um, sorry, I don't, I don't know if I've harmed it with that or if I, 29:51 I've harmed it with a disc or I've harmed it with a sub. I've, you know, I don't know how, how many times I've harmed it, you know? And then too, 29:58 you know, you gotta remember in the last five years is almost like the wild, wild west Yeah. Of, uh, of me. And you talked about it, 30:05 of soil biology or biologicals, you know, it's like everybody's got one. Yeah. And, and, and they're just now getting where everybody can develop and, 30:13 and know that there's certain algorithms or, or certain things that they can, you know, test them with and it be consistent. And so I, I mean, 30:21 do I think I've harmed soil biology? Probably so. Probably so. But, uh, but, but we're looking to do a better job at it now. 30:28 Yeah. Well, no, it's not like, it's not like you're accusing, I think we all have, like you talked about a disc, uh, a disc, you know, 30:36 uh, we, we've done a lot of compaction. There's all those kinda things. So, uh, get me outta here. Steve Sexton a product that's a fertilizer treatment, 30:44 maximizes our fertilizer investment. You said that we're working on even improving this product. Uh, is there any, anything the person would need to know if they say, you know what, 30:53 I'm listening to Chad. I need to be putting fertilizer treatment on my fertilizer to maximize it. What do they need to know? What, what do I need to know? 31:00 'cause I've never done this before. Well, they need to talk to their, their nutrient ag solutions, uh, sales agronomist, uh, and ask them about Titan xc. 31:10 'cause like Chad said, it goes on a pint per ton. And that's regardless if you're putting out 50 pounds of fertilizer or 200. So talk to your nutrient ag solutions rep and they can help them 31:23 get their fertilizer treated. Yeah. Well, from the math standpoint, if I can, if I can reduce, if I can reduce usage of something and four bucks it, 31:30 don't take it don't take a whole heck of a lot of reduction to make up for four bucks. 31:34 No, sir. And pencils are gonna get sharp, right? Commodity prices have come down, uh, meaning the price for beans and corn and wheat and, uh, 31:42 growers are gonna get a real sharp pencil. And they, and rightfully so, we have plenty of data that shows just a few pounds of P and k add the titan the 31:51 growers doesn't, doesn't cost grower anything. Right. And they're gonna get more yield. So I, I would challenge, 31:57 I would challenge anyone to look at the, what they think the availability of if the MP and K is or the P and k, let's look at the availability of p and K for the first year. They spread it. 32:07 Right. And then look at what tighten cost. And if they want to, I would cut back. 32:13 You could cut back twice the amount of fertilizer that tighten cost. And I promise you, you'll have a R o i. Yeah. You know, bring it call, 32:20 call me if you don't like, put my number up there. Call me if you don't, because I haven't seen it fail. And when we look at, you know, 32:26 nobody wants to talk about the availability, what, you know, and we're not gonna get into that. 32:30 Nobody wants to talk about the availability of how much, what, how much potash is available. First year you spread it out, you know, 32:38 Chad, the Ozzie say that's a dog's breakfast, 20 to 60 percent's available the first year and less than 10% up to 30% of the phosphorus, 32:47 that's a dog's breakfast on your r o i for your fertilizer dollar. So say that again. Say that again. So that, 32:55 That's exactly what I'm talking about. So I just, what did I, what did I do with my $4 investment? Uh, Steve, you mean those numbers? 33:01 Oh, so your, your, your first year efficiency, like Chad said on your applied P Yep. Is less than 8% up to 30%. So you have 70% to, to 90% being tied up. 33:12 Potassium is 20 to 60% efficient because potassium's dependent upon soil moisture. 33:18 Okay. So the point is roughly most, most of the fertilizer's unavailable if you don't have a treatment on it. Exactly. 33:26 There you go. And, And some of the phosphorus ties up, Damien, and they'll, we won't see it in our lifetimes. Yeah, 33:31 Right? Right. Until, until, until, and, You know, Go ahead And, and we get to talk about this with a lot of people, and they'll talk, 33:41 start hollering blasphemy, right? Well, Yeah, because they, they like the idea, you know, grandpa went out and spread fertilizer and it worked for 'em and Yeah. 33:49 And that phosphate that, uh, will never be available. It ends up in Lake Erie and then it caused problems. So, no, that's, that's a real thing. All right. The products tighten xc, 33:59 if you wanna learn more about it, uh, it's Loveland products, right? Yes, sir. 34:03 There you go. Loveland products. Nutrien. His name's Chad Henderson, uh, coming to us from a combine in Alabama. And then Steve Sextons, 34:10 an agronomist with, uh, Gerson Loveland. Uh, take your pick. Nutrien. All of the above. All of the above. My name's Dam Mason. Thanks for being here. 34:18 Until next time, this is extreme ag cutting the curve. Share this episode with somebody that you think could cut back on their fert, uh, maximize their investment and their impact. Because you know what? 34:27 We have hundreds of videos just like this that will help you up your farming game. It's all free@extremeag.farm, extreme ag.farm, 34:35 hundreds of videos just like this with smart people like the guys I'm talking to. Thanks for being here, Steve and Chad. 34:40 Thank you, Damien. That's a wrap for this episode of Extreme ags Cutting the Curve, but there is plenty more available by visiting Extreme ag.farm. 34:50 For over 50 years, farmers have turned to the proven lineup of crop inputs offered by Loveland products, from seed treatments, plant nutrition, adjuvant, 34:59 and crop protection products. Loveland has the complete lineup to keep your farming operation productive, and most importantly, profitable. Check out loveland products.com to learn more.