Webinar: Webinar: Survival or Growth? Navigating Farm Size Decisions in Tough Markets

Hey folks. Welcome to the October 2nd edition of The Cutting, the, I'm sorry, the, uh, extreme Ag Webinar series. We've got a great one for you today. A lot of, you're gonna be watching this on the recording versus live, but I will remind you that do join live. Please type in your questions. We want this to be as interactive as possible because the information flows so much better when you ask your questions, because there's a very good chance somebody that's watching the recording had the same question. So do type in your question down the chat feature. We're talking about five professionals that your farming business requires for success, okay? Farming is a business. Yes, we talk about the lifestyle. We love the pictures of the old red barns and all that stuff, but at the end of the day, this is a business and businesses use outside professional guidance to take them to the next level. You are not a jack of all trade. You might be a jack of all trades, but you're not good at it. Okay? So we're talking to two farmers, Matt Miles and Kelly Garrett with Extreme Ag, who are gonna outline the professionals that they employ to keep their business running smoothly and to be better off tomorrow than they were yesterday. We're going to also have some of those professionals on here. We've got Adam Alrich. He is with a law firm. He's also a farmer in Iowa. We've got Jared Creed with JC Financial Services, uh, marketing services. He's a financial advisor too, farming operations. And we've got Mike Evans, who is with Calibrated agronomy and also the, uh, staff agronomist there at Garrett Land and Cattle. So, I'm gonna start off by saying, if I were a farmer, I would have these five roles filled, because I would say, yes, I am cheap, and yes, I want to be frugal, but there's certain things I cannot do. The first thing I would make sure that I did, if I was a farmer, I would have a very good CPA. There are still farming operations that do not have professional accounting services. When I had a comedy business grossing $90,000 a year, I began employing a certified public account to make sure that I was doing the right things for my books. If a comedian in 1995 grossing $90,000 can justify having an accountant, how can your farming operation not? Have you talked about the complexity of the farming business? Think about that. Of course, the complex business, there's the depreciation schedules, there's the land exchanges. There's so many things, uh, how you can run things over time. Not to mention the government program payments. I would have a really good attorney and estate planner. You know what's really sad? Had a guy on my business of agriculture show a couple of years ago, 77% of farming operations do not have an estate plan in place. Do you hear what I just said? More than three quarters of farming operations, family businesses do not have an estate plan in place. You know, what happens then? They squawk when someone dies and then there's bad blood and then brother leaves because he can't get along with sister. You wanna do that to your heirs. 77% of farming options do not have an estate plan in place. I would have a very good legal assistant. I would've a, a sorry attorney, and I would have an estate planning attorney for sure. I'd probably have an attorney that just handles the normal stuff and estate planning attorney. If I were a farmer, if I were a farmer, I would make sure that I had a tremendous relationship with my lender. You're a business. Sometimes you need operating money. Sometimes $2,000 of income is a big, big deal. Well, another day, $200,000, doesn't matter. You have ebbs and flows, ups and downs. You know what? You're gonna need a good relationship with your banker. I would make sure the professional I have on staff will be similar. Like Jared, a business advisor that helps me with the finances. We're gonna get to one of his great examples of why you need that. Even if you're an experienced farmer that's doing well, there's probably stuff that's dropping through the cracks. Somebody like Jared, an agnostic approach, not involved with your operation day to day, but he is because he's outside. He's basically your CFO for hire. And then I would also have an agronomic expert, somebody like Mike Evans, because I know what I don't know. Yeah, we joke about me and my soils, but let's face it, the array of products you could be using right now, the array of products that exist right now, 1200 biologicals. Then we know that we're over utilizing some inputs because retailers like to sell 'em. What's Kelly's favorite thing to say? No retailer ever tried to sell you carbon because they don't have carbon to sell, but they'll, shell the hell, they'll sell the hell outta nitrogen to you. Can you really trust the agronomic advisor that's also got a iPad and a sale sheet trying to sell you stuff? Those would be the five experts that I would have in my professional employment if I were a farmer. But since I'm not the real farmer, I'm gonna kick it to somebody who is either Matt or Kelly. But Matt always leads us. We're gonna go to Kelly. Kelly. That's my five things. We like this topic because, and we know a lot of people are gonna be watching the replay. They're in their combines right now. They're harvesting, they're, they're not able to join us live. So I might act as one of them and be the question asker. Those are my five. Am I on the right track? Yes, I think that you're on the right track. You know, my five would be a marketing person to, to handle that board of trade, handle that brokerage account. 'cause I don't have the time or the ability to pay attention and, and have the level of expertise they have. It would be a CFO for the farm. I used to think that my banker or my CPA was the CFO and they both have different perspectives than what I think the CFO Farm should have. So now that's a different person. So marketing A CFO, I agree with you on the lawyer, a state person, and then also A CPA. And then the, um, the, the sales agronomist like Mike Evans. Uh, we do need to have a tremendous relationship with our banker, but I don't think that's one of the five people. 'cause at the end of the day that banker's working for the bank and you're a customer, and, and when things are tough or when things that banker doesn't represent you, he represents the bank. You need to hire people that represent you. That's why you need A CFO. That's the one that I think a lot of people miss, in my opinion. That's relatively new to our operation And your CFO, which really means the person that's looking at your books comes from creed's firm. And that's the person that you have to, obviously many farmers don't wanna open up their books and you all cagey and don't anybody know this. When you're doing that, you're withholding information. It's kind of like the computers only do with the information you put into. It's the same situation. Jared does that. Yes. Uh, Jeff Jansen is the financial analyst that works for CRE on the farm farm and things like that. And I used to say that the two most important people here on the farm were not me. They were Mike Evans and Jared Creed. Well, now, creed's not that important. Jeff Jansen is way more important than Jared Creed because he's the CFO. So Mike Evans and Jeff Jansen are the two most important people here on a day-to-day basis. And Janssen being the CFO of the farm and filling that role force, things like that, not only is he the CFO for the farm, he gives, when we have $3 85 cent corn like we do right now, he gives me many therapy sessions that I'm not gonna go broke and make it. So that would be number six. As a therapist, when you have $3 85 cent corn, Our friend Matt Miles sometimes needs a little therapy sessions, even no matter what the commodity prices are. I mean, we've been there for him. I wrote down therapists. I, I didn't even think about therapists, but that, that probably fit in the top seven or eight for sure. Creed. Um, somebody that's watching this is gonna say, Hey, I don't know, man. Um, how do I find this person? Like Janssen and I, I don't know. And again, farmers, I know 'em, I've been around 'em for 50 some odd years. I've been around these people. They're very cagey about what they share, what they divulge. So I think there's gonna be a reluctance to bring in somebody and call them my hired consulting chief financial officer. What do you see? There's, uh, a whole bunch of different people out in the, uh, countryside in the industry that can provide those services. Uh, it's not, it's not really all that hard to find somebody that is at least keeping up with the books on a day-to-day basis. Some farms are blessed with the individuals who are doing that, but that might just be the day-to-day transactions, and that's where it starts and stops versus taking that information a step further and really creating some analysis of the direction that the farm is moving and trying to avoid stubborn or toe. So I'm drawing a blank here on the, uh, a fractional CFO, you know, there's a whole bunch of different fractional CEOs, CFOs, COOs out there in all sorts of industries today. If somebody, I mean, I think you hit the nail on the head. Everybody's in a combine right now. It's October. Uh, everybody's busy and there's a 30 60 day stretch in the spring and the fall that a lot of stuff goes to the wayside. And without somebody monitoring that, uh, there can be a lot of opportunities that come and go in the fleeting moment that if the, the, the CEO of the farm, the farmer was actually, uh, privy of what was taking place at that point, it might've created some different business decisions that would've, uh, legitimately made a big difference to their bottom line for that year. So it, it's almost, you know, relinquishing control, as you mentioned, Damien, I think is probably one of the biggest challenges for many, many different businesses, not just agriculture. Um, I, I think it kind of comes down to just admitting that there are certain things that individuals are really good at doing and certain things that individuals really hate doing. And finding what those weak points are, finding what those strong points are. And, uh, it, you know, just pairing it all together, building the team around you that can be internally, like I said, there are a lot of farms that are blessed to have that internal team. And then there's a lot of operations that, um, obviously have to source that out, um, from a third party. So you got somebody like Janssen, that's the financial advisor. That's the, and, and we're not talking about where you should put your stock of investments. We're not talking about financially advising you on where your 401k goes. We're talking about breaking down your numbers. And that's exactly Kelly, what you talked about the beginning of this year. And, uh, when you went to your old man and said, it's cost me $900 to put out a acre of beans course, your old man said, how the hell did you get $900 an acre of beans? He was right by the old way of thinking about it. He counted seed crop inputs and maybe even a little bit toward equipment, maybe, maybe not, I don't know, maybe cash rent, you said no, there's also the depreciation, schedule, storage, et cetera, et cetera. And you didn't use to think that way. Janssen made you think that way because there's a whole bunch of fixed costs that really need to be rolled into a per acre base, uh, a per acre allocation, right? Absolutely. You know, when I started working with Jared, I was getting ready to go back to a 50 50 corn soybean rotation after being heavy corn for many years, uh, because we had such, so much better corn yields. And Jared said, well, that might be the right thing, agronomically, but it's the wrong thing financially, you know, the way crop insurance works, the marketing opportunities, things like that. And, and then the cost of soybeans that people don't understand that they miss. And I, I remember making the statement, there's not, there's not many other farmers here locally other than maybe Adam Ridge that I would say can run the numbers as well as I can. And I was $200 off, $250 off. And after sitting down with Jeff or Jared and seeing that we went, we went very heavy corn. It's like this year we only had a hundred acres of beans on the whole farm, uh, next year. Now, because of some research and things like that, we'll probably go back to a few more beans, but, but we went very heavy corn because of the financial reasons. And that also brings up, uh, another good point. You need your experts to be able to communicate and get along. So Jared says, financially, this is the best thing to do. The next thing I did was went to Evans and said, this is what we need to do financially. We need to figure this out. And then the communication back and forth between Jared, Jeff, and Evans was paramount to the success of us going that heavy corn because of the intense management it takes. Evans, Mike Evans, Kelly said that you are the one of the two most important people on the farming operation. This is as high of praise as I have ever seen heaped on you in the four plus years that I have known you and been involved with the relationship between you and Mr. Garrett. Can you even talk after having that? I mean, that's, that's like, it's like, it's almost hard to accept that kind of price. I'm gonna go buy my lottery ticket after this, Damien. So What do you do that makes you so valuable? By the way, you're not just a hired, you're not a consultant. Creed's a consultant, attorneys are consultants. Uh, financial advisor, consultant as Kelly's point, bankers don't even get paid well. They get paid from a bank from the interest that you pay them. You're on staff. A lot of these farm people are gonna say, I can't afford to hire somebody like Evans on staff. There's plenty of versions of people like you that are doing the fractional thing, meaning on a consulting basis. So kind of get into that. Yeah, it's, uh, a little more unique situation, what we have here with Kelly and, and I, um, being more, uh, being kind of a consultant outside and being in, uh, uh, involved heavily in the farming operation for him. So it, it allows a lot of different things. Um, it's a unique opportunity. I'm always blessed to be doing it. And, you know, it allows us to, uh, and from a, for me as a consultant, what being so close and being able to do a lot of things with trials and stuff like that allows us to have a lot more confidence in the, the practices that we're trying to bring out to the market or any other grower out there that we, we bring 'em out at Kelly's farm a lot and use 'em there and see firsthand, um, a little more intimately before we try to roll too many things out to say like Adam or, or any other else, uh, growers that we work with. Um, so it, that's kind of a unique avenue, but I think we always talk about it for like growers. They need to have something like that, um, in some fashion and taking, you know, Kelly always talks about taking 10% of your acres and doing some kind of trials on 'em and being able to look at what, what needs improved, what works, what doesn't. Maybe this doesn't work or as things change, Adam, you're the guy that is a farmer and also an attorney. Um, by the way, I named, I named an attorney as one. I said even two types of attorneys being my professional staff. So am I right on that? You need a state attorney, then you need the transactional, the contractual, uh, maybe like, you know, you get mad like at a soybean and smack somebody, probably somebody can get you off of like some sort of, uh, you know, assault and battery charges. I mean, how many attorneys do I need? Well, it depends on if you're gonna go full tilt on the assault and battery, then you'd need three. Almost happened in your dad's basement. It did. It did. That's a great story. Uh, we'll, we'll leave that for another time. Uh, Well, we can go with it right now. Five big tough American farmers, big tough farmers. Let this guy annoy the p**s out of everybody for an hour and a half. The 177 pound kid, that's not the big tough farmer finally had to take care of the extraction. I think it just points out here, there are people that get things done. You know what? I think it really comes down to maybe I should be somebody's professional service provider. You need something removed, call Damien. Yep. Yeah, you could, uh, pass road. You do shoot, you do shoot at your neighbor. So I will have to give you credit for that. I take care of problems. That, that, that's, that was a, a good problem that I've taken care of. Uh, yeah, I mean two, sometimes two different attorneys. I, it, it really depends on the firm that you're at. Uh, a small firm. It, it may be one, uh, that's a little harder to do because you've gotta find that attorney that can do the contractual, uh, reviews that could create an LLC. And that is, uh, is good at estate planning. There are a lot of attorneys that do estate planning. Uh, there are a lot of attorneys that do estate administration. So you have the planning and then the administration when someone dies. Um, you wanna have the expert though. Uh, Jim Lowman is a partner here with me. He is, he's the one that brought me into this firm. And he always said, you're, you're better off to specialize in something than, than to be a general practice attorney. Now that doesn't mean general practice attorneys aren't good at what they do. There's very a lot of good ones. Yeah. But what what we try to do is focus on what we're good at. And, and so for us, we focus on business organizations. We focus on contracts, agricultural law, uh, taxation, estate planning and administration. And so I think, uh, you want someone as a farmer who, you know, when that farm bill comes out, you know, you're gonna work with a guy like Creed. Um, but you may also want to be working with an attorney that knows what's in the big beautiful bill. What, uh, changes are there, not only from a tax standpoint, you know, the CPA, but from, uh, a farm bill program. What, what's the new farm bill gonna look like? What does that mean to me? What's, how does that affect my depreciation? Uh, these are heavy hitters depreciation on that tax return. You know, should I buy equipment? Should I lease this equipment? And, and these are things that are in flux all the time that I think a good attorney, uh, that focuses in those areas, uh, can really help with, You know, you just did just, you just, you just took, here's the thing that even in my little business, there's crossover between this person's role and this person's role to make sure, in other words, you're not an accountant and you just talked about depreciation. You're supposed to be talking about tort reform or, uh, or litigation or, or, uh, a language of a contract. Instead. You're talking about that. So there has to be crossover between all of these rules. There certainly is. I'm an attorney you'll never see in the courtroom. I'll testify, uh, as an expert, usually in a estate planning or an state administration trust administration, uh, or taxation area. But other, i, I won't litigate because that's not what I'm good at. Um, I've had plenty of people that, you know, I need a divorce or, you know, I might, somebody fell out of the window or whatever. That's not my area. So I refer those folks to someone that's good at that area. Biggest legal mistake, biggest legal mistakes. You see, a farmer comes into your office and probably already too late. Biggest mistake, agricultural people make, give me a couple. They don't, They don't have an estate plan. You, you said it at the onset, 77% no estate plan. I, that's a fact I I wasn't aware of. Uh, but I think you are far better off to have an estate plan that is 90% of what you want than to wait around and him and haw and, you know, think about how am I gonna get this thing to be a hundred percent Yeah. 'cause it never gets done. It, it's, it's like, I want every one of my soybean acres, uh, to, to be 90 bushel beans. Well, I, I might, I might hit hit a home run and hit that on one field. I, that's, I hope, but 80 comes first and 70 comes before that, and we gotta hit those before, before we can hit the 90. Right. So The point you're making right there is a good one. It's a very valid one, obviously. So the excuse is, I'm not handling my affairs, I don't have my estate planned on, but it's because, well, my wife and I quite haven't figured out, uh, what we're gonna do about this thing over here. It's like, no, you're using that as an excuse to procrastinate to not make the actual decision. You're pretending that instead if that was really what the problem was, still go and get everything done. And then there's this one little dangling thing that's not, it's not a deal breaker. So I appreciate that. All right. Miles, Damon, to piggyback on what you and Adam were just talking about there, when you guys are listing off your five most important professionals, I think those might change periodically throughout the year, throughout the years. I would make an argument right now from firsthand, um, recent experiences from family, from close friends, and even clients. There's so many poor assumptions out there of what they think is going to happen versus what the realistic, uh, or the reality is. It might smack them in the face. Mm-hmm. And there are numerous times that, uh, I've caught myself doing a few things that Adam has friendly chastised me before. Like, no, no, no, no, no. It stop. It's not my expertise. And it's one of those deals. Like I have questions that I need to ask Adam about, uh, you know, just family stuff here in the next, uh, coming, coming, coming weeks. It's a reality right now with the current landscape in agriculture. I would make an argument that, uh, that an attorney is arguably the most important person on a farm, uh, in the here and now. Got it. By the way, um, like you just said, the what you have these professions do changes during, over time and also what you need them to do, period, over the course of your life. What Kelly's needs are now are very different than what they would've been 20 years ago when he was in his first five years of farming. And then, I mean, obviously, but, uh, Mr. Miles, um, I wrote down some of the farmer excuses. We just talked about the procrastination. Well, I don't know exactly how we wanna set this up. We're gonna have to figure that out, which of course then it lingers for 5, 10, 15, 20 years. And as Adam's point, you don't even have, you don't have any estate plan, let alone you would've been better off to have had 90% of it done right. And 10% of it. That's maybe still a little bit of a moving target. Most people have the procrastination. I'll give you another one since you said all the people I hire, I can give a positive ROI, 'cause the next excuse is gonna be, well, I don't do all that because I'm not a big farmer like Matt. I can't afford that. And, and, and there's, there's some truth in that. If you're a smaller farmer, it's hard to, it's hard to justify. It's just like what, what deer was talking about on, on corn versus beans. If it's a higher production crop, there's more money there to give to these other things than soybeans. You know, soybean is the, is the dog of the bunch. So it don't have the budget that cotton does. So, you know, our cotton budget may be $800 an acre and soybeans may be 400. So there's a lot of money in that $800 an acre that you can, you know, that you can do things with. But you waited 23 minutes before you let me talk. So I'm gonna be long like temple. I'm just gonna tell you that right now. I, You told me I could go last with you because you're gonna sit there and take notes. And now the floor's yours, buddy. I've got the note. So, so my first comment is, what does a farmer want to do? Grow crops. A farmer wants to farm. Yep. He don't want to deal with attorneys, he don't wanna deal with CPAs. He don't want deal with marketing. He wants to farm. Yep. You go to, if you go to a conference and you've got two meetings there, one of 'em is on agronomy, which Mike would probably teach, and one of 'em is on the different tax credits you can get and different things you can do with your business. 90% of the farmers are gonna pick the agronomy. Yep. That's the biggest mistake is, is doing that. And if you wanna be really smart, and somebody alluded to this earlier, surround yourself with smart people because you can be a really dumb ass like me and surround yourself with really smart people like, you know, like Jared and, and Adam and, and Mike and you, you look really good. But your list and my list was pretty close the same. But if you don't hire these professionals, if you're doing this yourself, you're gonna be very biased to what you're doing. 'cause it's your farm. It was probably your dad's farm, maybe his dad's farm. And some of the decisions you're gonna make are gonna be emotional because that's what my dad done or my grandfather done. Mm-hmm. When you hire these professionals to help you market or help you estate plan, you know, I went through a death of my dad and there was zero estate plan. Today I'm 56 years old and I have an estate plan that's ironclad. You know, that's super important. And you and I, when you told your five, you know, I had five or six, that was the same way. But don't forget too, that, you know, you need to be more involved in the, in the governmental side. So you need to have some friends in the government, whether it's a senator, a congressman, a governor, or whatever, that you can go to and find out things that you're gonna really need to know for later on. Hang on a second. We, we, as a disclaimer asterisk, we said, these are people that we give money to to get something in return. Matt is not saying that he has senators on staff. He's not saying, I mean, remember the Godfather had senators on staff. I don't think we're quite there. I mean, you're a pretty big time down there in the Delta though. No, But you have to have a, you have to with everything's controlled by the government now, you know, we're, we're getting sucky prices, we got high input. So what's gonna happen? The government's probably hopefully gonna prop us up. But you need to know those people that are making those decisions that they're gonna prop us up to, to kind of advise them on what's going on. Right. Well, there are government programs. The point is some of like the crop insurance that Creed talks about, it's really a combo of understanding the government programs and then maxing it, mix, meshing it with your crop insurance program and then your marketing stuff. That's one of creed's big thing, right? I mean that's, that's a big part of it. That's exactly why you need people that are, that are doing that. You're trying to farm. You need people that understand that and know how to commingle all that together. You know, I was toying between agronomist and a financial, a marketing guy or a financial planner or a lawyer, you know, what was my number one? You know, and, and the traditional side of the farmer wants to go to the agronomist, but that may be the least important thing that we hire in today's world. No offense, Mike. 'cause we have to have 'em. But there's so many other moving balls now besides just making the yield. I seen you did a, y'all did a grain ring. You were talking about that earlier. You know, is it all about yield or is it about some other stuff too? You've gotta co-mingle all those things together to make a, you know, a perfect scenario, which none of it's perfect, but you know what I'm saying? Yeah, I was actually gonna throw another one in there too. My life coach, like when you just give advice to people on how they should live. And the thing is, I've been doing that for 50 years and I've never gotten paid for it. Uh, people have taken swings at me a couple of times when I say things like, you're really a dumb ass. And then like that. To me, that's guidance. But they don't take it as such. If you made $90,000 in 1985 cracking jokes, you're probably doing okay. 1995. Yes. Alright. Um, I wanna remind you, speaking of conferences where you attend these conferences, if you want to focus on the agronomic or the business, we got an option for you. We have both. We are going to, for the first time ever, give the data conference from extreme Ag. We're gonna do that on January 25th and 26th. That is, I'm looking at the calendar for next year, the last Sunday and Monday of January. You're not gonna be farming during that time. Come to Davenport, Iowa, Kelly, Garrett's gonna be there. Some of the other guys are gonna be there. I'm gonna be there. In fact, I'm gonna be a speaker on Sunday evening. We're gonna have you come in, gonna welcome you. Gonna have a little cocktail time, gonna hear from me. I'll make some jokes, and I'll also give you some outlook about where ags going and how you can fit into it. The next day is gonna be all about the data and the agronomics. If you're an extreme Ag member, it is free to attend this. Meaning the hotel is free, the meals are free, the sessions are free. You gotta get there. You gotta get to Davenport, maybe kick around and go to the John Deere place over across the river in Moline when you're there. But the point is, come and put this in your calendar right now. Stay tuned for details. We don't have all this, uh, up on our website yet, but we soon will, uh, from our friend Will, and you'll be getting emails from us to, to make sure you are reminded of this January 25th, 26th, the 2025 data conference, where we'll be covering everything that happened this year and then look ahead to the next year. It's gonna be a great one. Put it on your calendar. All right. Uh, Jared, I I'd say that, um, the one thing about the cost of production, et cetera, et cetera, and there's gonna be somebody that's a naysayer saying, I already know my cost of production. Why do I need this? I was in your office once in Dunlap, Iowa, and you ran through a scenario where someone thought that they were doing fine and you ran through another scenario where you grabbed, I, I can't, the number was pretty shocking to me. You just ran through a couple scenarios on the, on using marketing, crop insurance and what you do, packaging all that as an expert, professional advice giver to these farmers. And I think that you just gave me two scenarios from, uh, a client, what they thought they should do and what you had them do. And the, the spread was, I swear, I think was like $170 difference per acre. Help me with that. That was more so of a crop insurance conversation. Um, I mean, this is just kind of a sign of the times with how many things you're changing. As you and Adam had alluded to earlier about the big beautiful bill, what is exactly in that? And take it a step further, how is that going to have an impact on the timing and process of transitioning from the senior, uh, senior operator of the operation, uh, down to the next generation? And I have to say this, like put big asterisks around this that I get it, that ag is tough right now, uh, especially compared to the last five years. But I would make an argument that with all of the programs and the safety nets that are around us today, uh, and the increased subsidies to those, uh, uh, insurance products, they can be purchased by the farmer as well. That the bottom is not gonna drop out, right? The bottom's not gonna drop out and increase subsidies to younger generations. Specifically referring to the beginning farmer rancher program. This might be the time when, again, I get back to that attorney conversation that somebody needs to start kicking that, uh, kicking that operation to the next generation. There are, let me just throw it out this way. Let's just say I'm a 90 million acre corn farmer, one farmer, 90 million acres across all the us and I have three, four children that are coming up in the operation. And I'm gonna start that transition in due time instead of kicking the can down the road. Now might actually be the time because of the changes that happened in the big beautiful bill to support the up and coming young producers in the us. So the situation you are referring to there, Damien was, uh, you know, a, a larger than average Iowa farm that with all the payment limitation question marks that are out there in today's safety nets and the increased subsidies, beginning farmer rancher per 1700 acres was basically going to save worst case, 170 grand for that operation. They had four individuals, uh, that was controlling basically the 10,000 acre farm, but they have five individuals below that who are ready to step in. Mm-hmm. Last time I checked five times 170 grand on annual basis is not exactly chump change to a 10,000 acre farm. Mm-hmm. So there are so many different moving pieces here, all absent of marketing. I mean, I'll throw in one piece here with the changes in a big beautiful bill that Adam referred to changes in crop insurance. It's creating less volatility in the marketplace as of now, which historically volatility is gonna create opportunity. All you have to do is look at what the markets have generally done for the last 12 months. Cash grain prices of the physical commodity produced have really not moved all that much. However, it's been the input component that continues to tighten that, uh, just continues to ratchet higher and higher and higher. So knowing the costs is one side, knowing what that transition looks like here in the future. And in the here and now we have our work cut out for us this winter to, um, politely speed up some of this transition planning for these operations because there's real money to save, there's real money to keep, there's real money to increase safety nets without spending more inside a family operation. And why not keep the money inside the family versus letting it go elsewhere? That's the number one goal. If we keep it in the family, figure everything else out with the CPA, but it takes all these people of all these moving pieces that Matt Miles was referring to of bringing it all together and putting something in motion. Adam, you're nodding your head. Uh, so besides the estate plan, biggest mistakes, you see, my buddy, one of my best friends is an attorney and I always get a mu uh, when we go hunting or play cards or drink beer or whatever, and he always tells me a few of his, uh, fun stuff. So go ahead, give us some, give us some stories. Yeah. So Big mistake. Big, huge costly mistake. 'cause we're sticking with the theme of I can't afford it. 'cause I hear that all the time. Eh, attorney friend of yours told me he wanted this much billable per hour. I can't afford that. I'm like, well, uh, you might not have, be able to afford the outcome by not hiring him also. Yeah. Have 'em show you, they make 'em put their money where their mouth is. Right. So if I'm gonna charge you X, you should receive Y if, if you don't feel like you're getting a big enough bang for your buck, then you know, maybe I'm not the right fit. Uh, so far we haven't run into that a whole lot. I, you know, Matt said earlier, a farmer wants to farm and I get that. I want to go run that combine just like the next guy, but at the same time, it, we are in an agronomic environment Now. The, the ag economy is such where you're gonna have to do something you don't want to do. Right. And if you don't like to do the financial, I get it. But, but then you need to find these other professionals that can help you. One of the biggest things we see outside the estate planning is, you know, people don't necessarily use simple things like an LLC for instance, or, or any business organization, but namely an LLC. You've got trucks running up and down the road all day long. You've got an employee driving this truck, it should be in an LLC, right? We, we you, one of the things that we haven't really mentioned is a good insurance agent, and I don't mean just crop insurance. I mean a good insurance agent that knows your operation, that understands liability and is willing to shop around for you a little bit. There's a huge cost right there. You can save way more in insurance than you're ever gonna pay the, the attorney, most likely, uh, outside of maybe the estate administration. So an LLC would be an an area where, and, and it fits trucks great. Everybody's hauling grain with trucks. So an LLC there, uh, can be a great fit. It can also be a waste of money if it's you that's driving the truck and not an l uh, an employee of the operation. So understanding Andy Al has a question. Is it more beneficial to separate yourself from the business entities by creating standalone companies from one's personal assets? And does that help take the emotions out of decision making? Well, I think we just kind of got into that. Um, obviously some farming operations, I presume, Adam, that you've worked with, and you don't have to be a million acres, I'm sure, uh, a different, a company owns the real estate. I've seen it where a company owns the real estate or the in sometimes real estate's owned individually that way it can be owned by four different families. And then the farm is owned by one, and then the trucking is another. What do you shed some light on this? Yeah, so every operation's a little bit different, right? So we'll use an LLC lots of times for the operational side of things. Uh, trucks I mentioned earlier, you may put the, uh, operation itself into an LLC and I know we're not supposed to focus too much on the estate planning, but it's really, it can be part of an overall estate plan. Let, let's think about the thing that means the most to the farmer, which is, is most likely the land, right? No matter what, we're keeping this land, it's been in our family for a long time. We have to keep the land and we have to make that viable. Well, one of the things that can really mess that up is when the generation that has the land and transfers it is gone. Someday they're gone. So you may have an on-farm air, you may have a couple off-farm. Hes, are they gonna be able to get along? Well, what if in that situation, the family farm goes to, goes to the kids, very normal and a couple of 'em want to sell it, and maybe they don't get along so well and they're gonna force the sale through what's called a partition. There is nothing worse for a family than a, than a partition, uh, on a legal, on a, on a legal side of things. So an LLC, without getting too involved, an LLC can solve that partition problem because it takes away that, right? Mm-hmm. So now mom and dad, it's a simple thing. This doesn't cost a lot of money. Mom and dad put the farm or farms into an LLC. They can still own it. They can still control it, but they may make gifts of the interest in that LLC to the kids over time. And then someday the kids, you know, maybe they have a buy sell agreement in that LLC so that it maybe the whole family doesn't stay in there, but it remains a family farm. It remains with the kids that want to stay with the farm. We, whether from a farming standpoint or from an investment standpoint. All right. Uh, by the way, if you have a question, type in your question, we'll make sure we get answers just like we did with the question from Andy. Um, I'll move on here. We haven't heard from Evans for a while. I just want tee up for that one. Taking the emotion out of it, that was a legal, uh, into the question. Taking the emotion out of it is part of your role when you work not for the Garrett Atlanta account, but when you're in a consulting basis, taking the emotion out of it, is it emotion or economics that they bring you in for? Both. Both. Um, which one's first? I think when you're, uh, a lot of the times we get calls, it's a motion. I got a crop, it looks like crap. What are we, what are we doing wrong? What do we need to fix? So it's, it's a, it's a right now, um, heartache moment. Um, we were talking the other day, I was talking with somebody that, you know, usually you get the phone calls when stuff ain't going right, but when it's, you know, very rarely, not all the time, but you know, when stuff's going well or whatever, there's less calls I would say. But, uh, that's part of being an agronomist is there's a lot of problems out there to solve. So, um, I think the emotion comes up, uh, during the season, you know, and, and then the off season, the economics come in there. And I think that's very important for us, you know, that as far as an agronomist in my position, you know what, with Kelly and then Jared and the team, he has, you know, it, it allows us to know where to go. Um, I think knowing that, um, the financial health of the operations you work with, they're, they're watching it and they know where they're at, um, allows us to be a little bit more, um, uh, pinpoint or, or comfortable with what we're doing. Um, at least for me in a day-to-day basis. And, you know, from my role, you know, what we do and calibrated agronomy and, and is a lot of data focus trials and, and trying to make sure what we're bringing to the table is, uh, viable for the growers that are, are needing the help. I'm gonna go to my farmer friends now with Matt, and I'm gonna give this example, the thing that guys like you and I, since we're both 56, we are old enough now that we can say we've learned a lot of lessons and we paid full tuition for those lessons because the lessons you learn the best are the ones that cost you a lot of money. When I was young and started doing well in my business, I made the mistake of thinking that the CPA was also an investment advisor. The CPA to Kelly's thing about, no, this person's role is this. Yeah, there's some interchange over here, but this person's role is this, this person's role should be to minimize your taxes, to make sure that you're legal by the book and the, you know, certain things are set up as your entity from an accounting standpoint. When this person then brings you some investment advice, be careful about that. I have cost lost money because the professional that hired to do this, I thought also could do these other things. Is that, uh, something that you can share, uh, Matt, that you have also, uh, paid tuition on that lesson? Oh, I've definitely paid tuition on that lesson. And, and you know, Kelly's made this comment before on agronomy, you know, people want to hit the easy button, and I've used that in a hundred different talks in my life after he said that. And the easy button is not letting someone else take control. So when you let easy button is Letting someone else take control. Oh, you Think if you think the easy button is stay in Control yourself, the easy button to a normal farmer is I'm gonna do it all myself. Okay? I can handle all this. And the non easy button is letting people that are smarter than you take control of your business and do different things for you that will make you an RROI. Every one of these things we've talked about, if you do the math on it, you can't do it all. So if you do the math on all these different professionals that you get, there is a positive ROI almost, I'd say 95% of the time to everything, everything that you do with an another professional because they're non-biased, you're gonna be biased. You're gonna have a, uh, a sentimental effect, you know, just like Adam was talking about on these LLCs and estate planning, you know, you have a sentimental a a sentimental perspective, and if you let a professional handle it, he's non-biased. He don't, he's not worried about your feelings or your kids' feelings. He's worried about what's best for the business. And that's where these, all these different professionals return an ROI, Kelly, have you made the mistake? The, the, have you paid the tuition that I've paid where you thought this person in this role, and I'm not this way now, but I sure as hell was when I was younger, if they're in this role, they must also understand this. And I took advice over here on two other categories that was exceedingly expensive to me. Absolutely. Um, and it's, you wanna save money, and so you're gonna work with somebody that's selling you something that, that you know, that they're probably technically an expert in the area, but they're not working for you. And it doesn't mean they're working against you, but they have a different perspective. I, you know, I remember when we started working with Jared, or even the marketing people before that they were representing us and, and, and they're looking at you, you know, then when we started working with Jared and the, the very intimate nature that he understands and gets into the cost with Jeff and understands the budget and things like that, you very much have a person representing you. And then the, you know, instead of working and the CPA represents us, but they, they have a different perspective than the CFO. The bank is working for the bank, and I have a great relationship with my lender, but you have to understand, he still works for the lender. He doesn't work for you. And that's the mistake that is made, is that you want to hit the easy button and be that farmer and not write that check to pay for the person that's, that's, uh, be that person that that's working for you. There's value in hiring that. There is, as Matt says, it's a, a very, a very intelligent statement. There's an ROI on the people that we hire, you know, uh, we, we've done a tremendous amount of succession planning with Adam and things like that. And, uh, dad and I, uh, put Garrett land and cattle into, uh, operation in 2012. Uh, then in about 2018 we did succession planning. Uh, my dad passed away 24 days ago, and if we didn't have that done with Adam, I don't know where I'd be sitting today. Mm-hmm. You know, and I, and so, you know, uh, I, I sit here and think about that and on a day-to-day basis, because of the decisions we make, Jeff, Jeff, and, and Evans are the most important people here. But when I think about the value that it's brought to my family with, with the, with the C corp, that GLC is that Adam set up, and then, then when I think about the succession planning and the security that's brought to my family and the decisions we didn't have to make in an emotional time when my dad passed away, the value of that is infinite. I couldn't even put a number on him. You get the impression, creed, that he's doing this to sort of like, make it a competitive thing. Like, well, here's the first most important, second most important, like, it's like a pecking order kind of a thing. I'm on page six. Alright. I, I mean, I get it. I'm not important. I get it. All right. You've rubbed it in enough. Okay. I don't even, well, I think you made the point when you said you've been a life coach for people you've never been paid. Maybe that shows your talent in that space. I did. I never claimed it was my expertise though. Um, all right, so I'm gonna run around a little more rapid fire now. Um, and by the way, if you got any question, John, So if I can just add one thing. Part of being a life coach is also giving people life ex uh, um, you know, giving them advice when they ask for it. You tend to give advice when they don't ask for it all the time. Actually, that's kind of my thing. It's, uh, it's, it's actually, it's unprompted it's, it's it's unprompted in real life, uh, coaching and, uh, that's, some people take it better than others. That's all. I'll go back to my role now. Go on a little bit rapid fire. If you got a question, type 'em in here because we're not gonna be here all night. We wanna make sure that these, these are all obviously very, uh, these professionals pay for it. I'm gonna go through all the farmer excuses. Um, I can't afford it. I think we've addressed that. There's sure we get it. I don't think this is a farm size thing. Again, it's any business. You've got certain needs and you are foolish to, to try and take them on yourself because it doesn't take long. You Yes. Should you be frugal? Should you question the bill? Yes. Should you make sure that the spend has an ROI to it? Absolutely. Then I, if you're a small farmer, most of these professional organizations base it on the size of the farm. So if Kelly and I are bigger farmers, it's gonna cost us more money. If you're a smaller farmer, it's gonna cost you a little less money. It's not, it's not a certain price. Now, now the lawyers are different, but if you're talking about marketing or different things, they go by the acre more so than they go by. You know, this is a flat rate fee. I mean, which Is like crop consulting Evans, I mean, so I can't afford to have you on staff, but if I'm just farming 600 acres, there's plenty of independent crop consultants. I've done speaking engagements for these associations and they charge on a per acre basis. So what are we talk like, scout the fields, make the recommendations, do the testing, be there for your calls, troubleshooting, consultancy, et cetera. Like nine bucks an acre or something, isn't it? Yeah, That'd be a good average. Uh, I, I'll take nine. Well, maybe you're getting, maybe you're getting more than, uh, the standard. So it, Mike said that be Good. So I mean, they have to be there twice a week, so nine's probably too cheap. Well, and, and I can tell you that, you know, want to go to the illegal part of it, um, you can pay attorneys that are all across the board, you know, the guy that works out of a, of an hourly motel room, or the person that has a, a, you know, an office in, uh, inside the loop in Chicago that's charge, you know, billing $800 an acre an hour. But there, there's, sometimes you get what you pay for, sometimes you don't get what you pay for. So I think that's, I would say, I would say you get what you pay for if you look for quality people. I will say that, yeah, I pay a little more for some services because I know the person that's doing 'em is top notch. Uh, going around the room here. Quick fire then on these things. What do I need to look for? If I'm gonna hire a crop consultant, Evans, what should I, what do I need to know? Just say you are the farmer, but, you know, reverse the roles here. What are you looking at? What's three questions are you gonna ask them? Well, I think one thing that comes to mind is what kind of team you got around you. Um, I think sometimes, you know, being an individual crop consultant, it, uh, with the complexity of agronomy, um, having, um, multiple people on an organization or a team, whether that's two or three guys that are gonna work together is valuable. Just like we do. You know, I got Clinton, Jared, we talk pretty regularly, Luke, you know, and everybody has a different viewpoint or sees this thing, or we come across something and you know, oh yeah, we've been dealing with that for a year. Here's what you need to do. So it gives it, the experience of that group allows for, uh, acceleration of stuff and it, and checks for us. It's a check of our, what we're doing too. Um, trying to bring the best, uh, consulting out there. 'cause I think sometimes guys get, uh, an individual not to bang on 'em too hard, but, you know, they're an individual in their own mindset. So you gotta have a little bit of diversity in the crop consulting, I think. So the angle here is multiple people on the team, so that way you have, uh, enough, um, exp enough experiential, uh, background that they can say, wait a minute, Evans, I've seen this before. And, and, and all of a sudden you're, you're getting information. So it's an exponential return because it's not just your nain and experience, it's two other guys brand. Daniel, I, I wanna make another comment here. So when you're talking about agronomist, and we have a lot of insects in cotton. So you either have a bug checker or you have an agronomist, and there's a bunch of difference in a bug checker and an agronomist, you know, Mike's an agronomist and there is a different level of agronomy than just a bug checker, but we have a lot of bug checkers around here. Kinda like the example your CPA is not your investment advisor. Uh, same thing. Yeah. Very costly creed. Uh, I'm gonna go to you there's gonna be somebody watching this replay and they're gonna say, Hey, that's neat. Uh, Jared's got an office in Dunlap, Iowa that works great for Kelly. I don't have anybody like that near me because there's this idea that location matters. And I would hope, uh, I do, I hire professional services from people that are nowhere close to Huntington, Indiana. But there's still that thing of, I've gotta have 'em right next to me answer that. Not a pat on our own back, but we have producers from Washington to North Dakota to Maryland, and everywhere in between 20 different states. Today's technology, that's a poor excuse anymore for the farmer. Uh, it'd be nice. And there's certain pieces like Matt and Evans were just talking about. You're obviously not gonna be an agronomist living halfway across the country, uh, for that individual, but for at least a lot of what we are involved in, um, you know, math is math. You're, you're not gonna, it doesn't matter if you're in their backyard or if you're, uh, six states away. But I'm gonna piggyback on what you asked Evans a second ago, what you're looking for in an individual. I, I just can't emphasize it enough that with how many things have changed in the last three or four years, it has spurred additional, um, efforts in our own internal business to be prepared to assist a farmer for challenges that are coming their way by adding different services that we provide. Um, but so many things have changed that your average US producer doesn't have the slightest grasp around really what has changed in front of them. I'm talking from legal, I'm talking from accounting and tax purposes, marketing, drop insurance, farm programs, all these pieces, not going all the way back to just surrounding yourself with that right team. They don't have to be in your backyard. However, you have to have a team that can cohesive work together and everybody has to understand it. You, you, you have to be able to bring it all together because you're gonna drive yourself nuts. If you're dealing with three or four or five different individuals that they are not on the same page, fire in different directions, you're never gonna achieve what you're truly out to. Well, then you see what happens there. It's a little bit like, this person told me this and this person told me a completely opposite thing. It's because they're being competitive to each other and they're actually looking out for their own interests versus yours. And we've all been Yeah, that or just complete lack of knowledge on the subject. Yeah. Okay. Incompetence or, or, um, competition that is, uh, harming the client. You the client? No. Alright. Matt, I was laughing at something. He must have gotten a text from Kelly. But anyway, is there something you're gonna share with us is, you know, it's like when you have chewing gum, you have enough for the whole class. If not, you guys spit it up. I Did have a text from Kelly and that's why I was laughing, but that's, I'm not going any further than that. All right, Adam, what do I need to know? You're a farmer and attorney. Put your farmer hat on. What do I need to know? Uh, in 30 seconds or less, I'm gonna, I, I'm, I, I need to get my legal house in order, whether it's contractual, it's my arrangement with my, you know, my, my heirs. It's my, my, what do I need to know? Yeah, so you need the right person. You know, you can, you can get an agronomist that maybe isn't, they're subpar, right? Well, you can do the same thing with an attorney. So you need to find someone that is not only competent, but maybe you find the guy or gal that some of the other successful, uh, operators in your area have used and have said, you know, this, this person knows what they're doing. Uh, you, you don't want that general practice attorney to do everything from family law to your estate plan, to your business organization. It, it, it just doesn't work. And I, I think if, By the way, my, my friend, it's an attorney has about three specialty areas, and his point is the same thing. He is like, there's an ear, nose and throat doctor and there's a podiatrist for God's sakes. You know, and, and obviously in between all that's a proctologist. But yes, the point is, and, and lawyering is a little less. Um, uh, you like that Jared, in between all that, I went from the head to the toe and in between all that it was, it was clever. That's why, that's why I made $90,000 in comedy in 1995. Matt. Alright, go ahead, Adam. I, I think if, if I put the farmer hat on, uh, you know, successful farmers, uh, the, the people that you're gunning for, right? The, the people that you think, that's where I want to get to. Uh, or, or maybe you don't have that and it's, this is where I want to get to. They're financially savvy and they're efficient with their capital. And I think, you know, my crystal ball's no better than anyone else's, but it sure feels like in the ag sector, uh, there, there's probably more clouds on the horizon than, you know, bright, bright, sunny, uh, blue sky today. Uh, I'm, maybe I'm wrong. Uh, but what are you doing to prepare for that? And even if I'm wrong, even if that's not the, that's not what ends up happening. It's a better outlook. What are you doing on your estate plan? What are you doing with your operation to make sure that it's efficient from a legal standpoint? So if that guy rolls the truck that's working for you, you're not losing the family farm. What, what are we doing to get the kids involved? Not everybody likes to send pictures of their kid driving the combine. I do that, you know, it's fun. But the, the real value might be what, what do those kids understand about the business? I've seen that with Kelly. Kelly knew at a young age, uh, gene and others taught him how do you run a business? Hmm. They taught him how to plant corn and raise cattle, and they did a good job with that. But he's unique in how do you run a business and he operates it like a business. Hmm. And by the way, we opened up by saying, yes, farming's a lifestyle, farm's beautiful. We love it. I've got bread Barnes and, and all that. And it's great. But also if there's no lifestyle and there's no legacy if there's not business first. And so that's what this is all about, whether it's financial. Oh, I have another comment. I know I keep cutting you off, but you normally cut me off. So we're sitting here talking to Adam, Jared, and Mike, and the farmer has to be open-minded. Neither, none of y'all three wanna work with a guy that thinks he knows it all right? I can guarantee you that none of these three guys wanna work with a farmer that his dad did it and his grandpa did it. And this is the way we're gonna do it. Don't that don't matter. They're gonna look at the people that they're working with, that that hires them. And they may turn some of them down because they're so close-minded, they can't work. You know, if you're gonna hire a consultant to look at your crop, Mike, you agree with this and, and they do everything opposite of what you say, you don't wanna be with 'em. Same thing with marketing, same thing with a lawyer. You want the farmer that's open-minded, that understands I'm not the smart guy. These are the smart guys. That's who I'm gonna work with. Well, By the way, that personality you just described, the know-it-all, uh, type is going to sabotage. They will, they will have do what they were advised to do And then blame it on them when, and that Way it fails. And that way they can go back to the coffee shop and claim that they, they tried doing what Evans told 'em to do, and it just look at that I was right all along. So there's that too. So it does, you no good if you're going to do this, be open minded. To your point, man is be open minded and actually, ha ha have the dialogue and then do what the advice is. Otherwise, you, you, you must just go ahead and be the know-it-all that you think you are. You're going To hire a agronomist and, and he tells you to spray and you wait two weeks to spray, and then at the coffee shop you have bad yield. And you say, well, that was my damn consultant's fault. That's, that happens more times than not. Does it Not, Mike. Yeah, I mean, well not with cotton for him, because, because he, he's in, he's in Iowa. I think it's important, I think it's important that you, when you hire a consultant, no matter which one it is, it's, it's important that you just, as you said, you're not competing with them, that you're gonna listen to 'em. And I, but I also think it's important to hire a consultant that just isn't there for the check and is always gonna tell you yes, it's important to hire a consultant that's not afraid to tell you you're dumb. And, uh, Jared gets his point across to me all the time. Yeah. I'm Constantly telling Kelly no, constantly. Yes, Jared and Adam, Jared and Adam especially, are not afraid to tell me that I'm wrong. And you, you need to, you need to be man enough to, to hear it. And you need to hire a consultant that's man enough to tell you, that's not afraid to tell you the, that's important. If they're never gonna tell you that you're wrong, they're the wrong people to be working with you. It's a little bit like the, the, the history of companies that, uh, were great and then went, uh, went by the wayside because the boardroom got so comfortable just all nodding their head and agreeing with each other that, uh, all of a sudden they, they they got passed right by. But That's your, that's a takeaway right there though. Damien, take the farm hat off. Take the agriculture hat off. Imagine that, uh, Damien, here you go. Here's the keys to a multiple million dollar revenue business and multiple million dollars worth of assets. And you know nothing about the business. And I don't mean that on a slam for any farmer on the ag side. Yep. It's no different. They have to have experts in place if they don't have the knowledge themselves, which there are plenty that do, uh, if they don't have the knowledge to do it all on their own, they have to go get it. That's, that's whether it's a consultant or it's an employee, it's the same concept. Uh, you gotta think bigger than just a farm hat, in my opinion. And, and the ones who keep the closed minded might have, uh, a rude awakening of some of the cloudy days ahead that, uh, Adam was alluding to. I also liked that Kelly said A good consultant is not afraid to p**s off the client, which is why I've been such a highly successful life coach. I have been not afraid to p**s off almost every human that I've ever come in contact with when I gave them unsolicited advice for their life. If that, if the mark of a good consultant is not afraid to p**s off the client, then Jared and Adam are At your level. And I'll say this, you p**s off more people than you don't p**s off. It's, it's, it's, it's just the honesty. By the way, if you want to, uh, come and hear me, not p**s you off, and give you some big outlook on where ag is going and what, uh, the landscape's gonna look like for the future of this entire industry, that's what I do. I talk about the world's most important industry, the business of agriculture. I'm gonna be doing that in Davenport, Iowa at the first ever 2025 data conference. 'cause it's gonna be January 26th. We're gonna be talking about all the data. So if you come to Davenport, if you're an extreme Ag member, it's free for your rooms and your meals and all your sessions. You gotta get there. You don't have to be a member to come to this. You can still come to it. We want you to be there. We're gonna have companies that we work with there. We're gonna have the guys from extreme Ag. We're gonna be talking about all the data, what the trials did, what they learned, and how you can apply that to your farming operations. We're gonna cover a little bit of the business like with me on Sunday evening. And then obviously in the hallways while we're there. It's always a great time. You know, you'll learn a lot. You know, you can take lessons home to your farming operation about your business, about your farming operation, about your agronomics, et cetera. January 25th, 26th. More details are coming. They'll be on our website soon. You'll be getting emails about this. Just stay tuned. But it's January 25th and 26th. Davenport, Iowa. Put on your calendar also, we do this again, our next webinar's gonna be December 4th. December 4th. We're doing this very thing, a webinar. We're gonna take November off 'cause harvest is still going on. On no December 4th. Survival or growth, navigating farm sized decisions in tough markets. Do you expand? Do you take this time to grab some more acres or is it smart just to pare down a little bit and get outta some risk? Gonna depend on what you got going on. We're gonna talk about that at this very webinar with another panel of experts on December 4th. So look for that 6:00 PM Central, 7:00 PM Eastern. As always, if you enjoy what you do here and what we do here at Extreme Ag, go check out our show. The Grainery, uh, been uh, releasing that now for, since January. And it's a great show. All these guys right there get together with me and my favorite building here on the farm and have a big conversation about what's going on in agriculture. So go check it out. You can find out all of our great stuff at Extreme Ag Farm, extreme Ag Farm. Also go to our YouTube channel, it's free. Hit subscribe. We'd love to have you keeping up with all the great videos that these guys produce on their farms and that we do at the Cutting the curve and also with our show The Grain Read. So next time, thanks for being here. Adam Alrich, Jared Creed, Mike Evans, those are your panel of experts. Kelly Garrett, Matt Miles, our producer, will Oste. And if you want to go deeper with one of our experts, you know what you just do, you go to Extreme Ag Farm type in, and we'll make sure we kick the email. Or you can find Adam, Jared, and Mike through any of us. So next time, thanks for being here. 01:02:57.555 --> 01:02:59.325