Farming Video | Kevin Matthews on Smarter Nitrogen Use and Root Growth

00:00:00 So here today with, uh, Scott Lay with Gerson. I got him from uh, where you? Colorado? Texas. Where you at? Oh, Bloomington, Illinois. Kevin 00:00:09 Bloomington. Boy, I missed it. Didn't that goodness. Es man, I appreciate you coming out here, Kevin, it's a pleasure to be in North Carolina 00:00:15 and get a chance to see what's going on here, How you like us here. Soil that fine soil there. 00:00:20 Well, again, as compared to Bloomington, Illinois, what we see on our farm, it's a little more red. It's a little more, a lot more clay. 00:00:28 Uh, but dirt's, dirt and look like we're raising some pretty darn good corn. So far. It, it is doing good. But you would be amazed 00:00:34 with the bricks we can make with this stuff. It is unreal. So this is our field day plot. Yeah. And um, so a lot of people wanna ask, you know, 00:00:42 what kind of yields that we had. You and I discussed that. So when a non, this is gonna be irrigated. Yeah. 00:00:48 This is a drip irrigation. But in this particular farm, prior to putting the irrigation in was generally 130, 00:00:55 140 bushel corn ground and a 40 bushel soybean ground. Yeah. But with the intense management and the irrigation water, 00:01:03 water can make a bad farmer look really good. So that water really makes a huge difference on this farm. So we'll see some really good soybean yields 00:01:11 and we'll see what I think are exceptional corn yields. Yeah. Unless I mess something up during the process, I've been known to do that. 00:01:19 You know, cleaning sprayers out is a tedious job. So what we have here is, um, we've got a plot here and we will pick out A-N-C-G-A out of this more than likely. 00:01:29 And our extension agents will come and weigh it. And we'll compare this to our grower standard and we'll see how it works. 00:01:36 And when I say this, so what we done was at planning, we applied a product called Infinity in our two by two, which is a 24 s nitrogen product, kind 00:01:45 of universal people put stuff like that in their, in their side by side. This was at a 20 gallon raid is 00:01:51 what we ran actually 25 on the irrigated, 20 on the dry land. And I believe we added a quart 00:01:57 to the acre, if I remember correct. Of infinity. That's right. This is a treated one. And then this is untreated 00:02:03 and what you see a little bit more root system. And I broke a lot of these roots off on both plants trying to dig them up. 00:02:10 'cause this is what I was digging with. It was a little on the damper side. I understand. And uh, so it was kind of a challenge. 00:02:16 One thing I always like to do is try to, you know, for me as a young grower was learning to grow stages of the plant 00:02:22 and I read the books and everything. So we got this, this is kind of some say v when You said when you were a young grower, 00:02:28 were those wrote in stone tablets or how did you get those? I, you might have one on me on there. I don't know. 00:02:34 We got our first collar here and that, that is what I call V one. Now, as this corn grows, 00:02:40 that's gonna disappear, it's gonna fall off. You're not gonna see it. So you're basically gonna start with V two when you're walking your field scouting. 00:02:48 And that collar needs to be completely, fully wrapped around that corn. So we're at V three, we're at V four now. 00:02:57 This one's not quite there. So the V five is just not there yet. Give it A couple days. Right. So 00:03:03 give it there. So it, you know, something outside of infinity, let's say we're doing a herbicide application 00:03:08 and there's a height restriction on that corn. One thing we wanna remember when we're spraying is that height restriction is on your tallest horizontal leaf. 00:03:18 That's not this baby sticking way up here in the air. It's this one. That, that, that one right there, you'll measure the air from the ground. 00:03:25 Just a little bit of agronomy tips there. Just, you know, that's one thing gerson's really big on is they're wanting you to know that when 00:03:31 to use their products infinity, you put this on, you can put it in your wide drop application. Yep. And in this situation, I wanted it at planning 00:03:41 because I wanted to build this root system as early on as I could. Yep. Because we don't have the greatest soils. No. 00:03:48 And so the goal with this is I can reduce my nitrogen if I want to, but I chose to leave it the same 00:03:56 'cause I wanted to see does it have an extra benefit. Yep. When I was reading on reading on the product and trying to understand if it's something I wanted 00:04:03 to use on my farm and if it was gonna be a hindrance, it certainly is not a hindrance. 'cause the compatibility with the fertilizer is no problem. 00:04:10 Yep. Correct. I was reading, we got three modes of action. So we got, it's, 00:04:15 it's just a little bit more than your average off the shelf product. And again, it, it, it, it swims in the same pool, so 00:04:21 to speak, as the other nitrogen efficiency products on the market. Which, uh, again, there's a handful and, 00:04:26 and some are, are are having a lot of success where this would be different infinity. Kevin. Two things. One, this, the tank's mixability. 00:04:34 Correct. You can employ it with, uh, liquid fungicides. Liquid fertilizers, herbicides, crop protection products in furrow two by two. 00:04:42 Now hold up so they can put fungicide with this. Absolutely. That's A very good point. 'cause 00:04:47 normally we do not want put Fungicides. Yeah. And and that's where it's, it's different. Again, this is driven by metabolites, 00:04:52 not necessarily live microbes. So it has more amenability or flexibility in terms of what you can mix it with. 00:04:57 Um, and, and again, that that lends itself to, or as we move into the modes of action, again, a lot of other products, several others, 00:05:05 a fixed atmospheric nitrogen, we think that's certainly a part of the equation. Oh yeah. We believe nitrogen efficiency is larger than that. 00:05:12 The second mode of action that we talk about, and we we will talk about it or show evidence of it Yeah. Is recruitment of native 00:05:18 and fixing microbes that are in, in the soil. Yeah. Last but not least, which maybe we don't have as much potential here, but, and that's the, 00:05:26 or organic pools of nitrogen. Yes. As you grow or increase organic matter in CEC, you have greater pools of organic nitrogen and that's great, 00:05:35 but you know what, the plant uses inorganic NH four. So it aids in that liberation or freeing up of organic nitrogen. 00:05:42 We, we think that will translate. And we've seen it over the last several years across a wide range of crops. 00:05:47 Wide range of growing conditions mm-hmm. Will, will translate to results. Yep. So you talked about the organic matter. Yep. 00:05:53 This, this farm here, you know, when I told you when I bought this farm, we was sub one. Yeah. And now we're over three and that's, that's huge. 00:06:01 That's trending in the right direction. That's huge. That's huge. And you would not believe how much less water I need to irrigate with that. 00:06:07 And when we talk about that, that shows nothing to do with infinity. That just shows what organic matter can do for your soils 00:06:14 and the flocculation of it and the ability for it to water to move. But when you hit a stress dry environment in some 00:06:22 of this dry land corn by this attaching and helping create that organic matter, it kind of reminds me of some of the other products you guys have 00:06:31 to help get through those stress periods, those drought stress. It's kinda like, I guess I'm asking the question now. 00:06:37 Did you just put kind of all those different modes of actions together to come up with this? 'cause it's a pretty good idea to do it at one shot. Well, 00:06:44 And, and again, it it this this is a byproduct of something we started six, seven years ago in terms of research. 00:06:49 And we started at the top of the funnel and said, look, if if we wanna create something that that increases natural pools of nitrogen, you know, 00:06:57 what are the levers so to speak, we can pull. Mm-hmm. And that's how we arrived at fixation. Liberation of organic end 00:07:03 and recruiting of of, of end fixing microbes. So, you know, it's not a replace a hundred percent replacement for nitrogen we're No. 00:07:09 Can use it just like you said, in concert with a full rate of nitrogen. I think we think that's a great way. 00:07:15 But there are also opportunities, uh, where you have greater organic matter, maybe when you have high carbon 00:07:20 and nitrogen ratios, a corn on corn environment, um, or places frankly, where you might be overlying nitrogen, where you can, uh, responsibly reduce by, by 10 20%. 00:07:31 Uh, and that that infinity will supply more natural forms of nitrogen to make up for that. 00:07:37 What, what's being applied less? So our growers that's, that's wanting to experiment and try this. 00:07:42 Like what I wanted to do this year. The, the one thing that I showed you right off the bat was, you know, there wasn't a lot of difference in the roots. 00:07:50 But the one thing when you look down this route, this is the treated and I got many more fibrous hairs along this versus that. 00:07:57 And you, you explained to me that the way it creates the plant to it, the root to its crete, that it just makes a 00:08:04 more friendly environment. It Does. It does. So Kind of tell me a little bit more about that because well, I don't know all that 00:08:10 and the average grower don't know it either. 'cause I'm below average on a lot of stuff. Well, let's be honest here, a scientist, I'm not, 00:08:16 but I'll, I'll try to put it in in, in in language. Both you and I can understand. That's what we need to know. That's what we need to know. 00:08:22 You know, as, as the plant ingest the material, the infinity and the plant grows, we're now about V four. That plant or the roots are emitting root exudates. 00:08:30 That's the on, on a nice summer day. You can see the slime. That's that's correct. Yep. 00:08:34 And then, you know, again, as those exudates acidify, the, the, what we call the rise ophere, that area 00:08:39 of a quarter inch in close proximity to the roots, that's what pulls in or recruits those end fixing microbes. 00:08:45 And again, the more, the more plumbing, the more fine root here is you have the more surface area you have in which to pull in those, 00:08:51 those end fixing microbes. That's what we're seeing. So it's, you know, we're, we're not seeing a difference in growth stage. 00:08:56 But that's because the crop hasn't been under stress. No, no. We, we've had excellent conditions unlike last year. 00:09:02 That's right. And I hope we don't have another year, like last year that's, so this might be my last plot. The hope is over time, by supplying that plant 00:09:09 with more forms of nitrogen ni uh, uh, ammonium forms of nitrogen, um, you know, that that tank, so to speak, is more full or more readily 00:09:18 available when that plant needs it. Yeah. Again, we're, we're, we're, we're just, as the nitrogen demand curve starts to spike up about now 00:09:25 or in the next couple weeks, this is where we're gonna see a difference in, in we hope. Right. In terms of how that plant's able to utilize more 00:09:33 nitrogen than the untreated, You know, the first thing that when I hear the song and dance from my salesman, I want to know, okay. 00:09:40 I need to get educated on it. Yeah. So, you know, we've covered education part. Yeah. And they're like, what's this gonna cost? 00:09:46 I mean, the corn prices are in the tank right now. So what's the ballpark average a grower could look at for something? 00:09:52 Well, and again, it's farm gate economics are not good. No. Every, you can't hide that. You can't hide that. It is what it is. 00:09:59 The price per acre, again, you, you referenced it earlier, one quart rate will range in that 17 to $18 an acre range. 00:10:05 Okay. Not cheap understand. But again, the consistency of yield result and the potential, uh, to, you know, 00:10:11 responsibly reduce the rate of nitrogen in, in combination with it. Uh, all the trial work we did last year is about a seven 00:10:17 and a half bushel positive yield response. Uh, we've got a number of instances where we are reducing nitrogen rates, comparing that 00:10:23 to full nitrogen rate. Uh, we feel really good about how it looks. Yeah. The hist, the research I've done on it, I've seen 00:10:29 that we had about an 83% win rate. Yeah. Across. And, and what I liked about the research is, and that's one thing I like about extreme ag, 00:10:37 is we're so broad. Yeah. And all the I states was in it. And then not only the I states, 00:10:43 but we had, you know, the Carolinas, Virginia, Maryland. That's right. And, um, Kentucky, Tennessee, 00:10:51 I mean you got, it's really put some plots out there Yeah. To get us some information. Absolutely. And, and it's what we talked about. 00:10:57 It, it's if if a product, ours or anybody else is gonna work, it needs to be work able to function in a, a number of different zip codes. 00:11:04 Yep. A number of different growing conditions, in this case across a wide range of crops we're looking at in corn, 00:11:10 we think this will be the most logical place or, or the most number of acres we get to, but over time we have confidence we're, we're going 00:11:16 to be able to lower the applied nitrogen pounds per bushel. So I've had the pleasure of planting 30 plus crops, 00:11:24 but one thing I've learned is these, these products like this in a tougher year really show up and show out. 00:11:32 And what I also have learned is in a perfect year, I see less response curve in those perfect years. As bad as I wanna see a big win here, 00:11:43 I really hope we have a really good year and we don't see those big trends that we see in those really tough years. 00:11:51 I understand. And, and the whole US needs that. Yeah. So, uh, you know, we'll see how it works out. We're having our field day here on August, uh, 00:11:59 first Thursday in August. I believe that's the seventh if I remember right. So we encourage you to come out 00:12:05 and one thing we do different, this is NCGA, but we want people to walk through here. We will ask you not to be pulling ears now. 00:12:13 Now Scott might pull some over here on the grower standard part, but I'll, we'll watch him. 00:12:17 We'll make sure he don't do that. But, uh, no, all seriousness, it'll be a great event. We really would like for you to come out. 00:12:25 We'll have, uhon will be here for the first time this year working with us. Yeah. We've got several other companies here, Demco, 00:12:32 John Deere, different ones. Uh, we want you to learn something. We want you to ask questions. 00:12:39 Let us be the Guinea pig for you and let's see if we can't get some of these products on your farm that will make you money. 00:12:45 If they won't make you money. We do not want 'em on your farm. But we do want to encourage you to try a little bit 00:12:50 and see what you can do. Man, I appreciate you coming all the way from Illinois out here, Kevin. 00:12:55 All it was a pleasure. Yes sir. 00:12:56.325 --> 00:12:57.845