Will Biologicals Replace Synthetic Fertility and Chemistry? | The Granary

00:00:00 Will biologicals replace chemistry and synthetic fertility in the future of American agriculture? That's the topic in this special episode of "The Granary" with XtremeAg. 00:00:11 You ready for a conversation with some real farmers about real issues? And the best part? You're invited. 00:00:17 So pour yourself a drink, grab a snack, most importantly, pull up a chair. Welcome to "The Granary." 00:00:27 Hey, guys. All right, guys, you heard the topic. It's a great one. I'm sitting here with my friends from TidalGrow. This is Kurt Neitz. 00:00:38 He is a TidalGrow guy. TidalGrow AgriScience is the sponsor of this episode. If you want to learn more about their seafood-derived products, you can go to 00:00:46 tidalgrowag.com. They are a cool company. They got some neat stuff, and we're doing a second year in a row of an experiment down the road here at one of my fields. 00:00:53 He is joined, Kurt is, by Trey Kutts, who is a PhD level agronomist here with TidalGrow, and we are joined also by 00:01:01 Adam Ulrich. Adam is our friend from Iowa. He's an attorney, he's a farmer, and he's a friend of Kelly Garrett. So you've got a lot of thoughts on this that came from our Time to Commodity 00:01:10 classic. You obviously got a lot of thoughts about this because this, in my opinion, came about mid-career for you. 00:01:15 You worked in academia, then you came back to corporate, and then for a young guy like our friend Kurt over here, you've not seen an agriculture in your 00:01:22 career that didn't really have biologicals. I've heard all the thing. What are they? How do they work? How are they made? Do I have to refrigerate these things? Is it snake oil? 00:01:33 It's been over, and over, and over, and over again. So I guess let's start at the beginning. Define, in your opinion, what a biological is, what a 00:01:39 biostimulant is, why a biopesticide. They're all different, so give me the things. Just maybe start with the difference between biologicals and anything 00:01:47 else. Super interesting because all you were saying was biologicals, right? And we're talking about a very diverse set of products that are, 00:01:56 yes, biologicals, which are living microbes and biology that go into the soil. Or you can have biostimulants, which could be inerts or peptides or things meant to stimulate growth 00:02:08 in the plant versus actually being a living organism. Okay, just because I'm not a chemistry major, it could be inerts. You mean like an inert ingredient. 00:02:15 Inert. What's that mean? So- Or a molecule, a non-living molecule. Okay. That stimulates growth. 00:02:20 Sure. So yes, it's a broad category. And by the way, if I'm confused, I'm guessing there's a lot of other people that are confused, and I've been out 00:02:27 here working with XtremeAg for five years. I get it that there's this whole category. They're not synthetically made. They're using live... 00:02:37 Help me. Yeah, some of them... Well, actually, yeah, some could be synthetically made. Biostimulants, ultimately what you're doing is you're either stimulating 00:02:47 plant growth, plant defenses, plant hormones in some cases, whereas biologicals, it is 00:02:55 a living organism that either has some of those functions, right? Okay. So 00:03:02 you're a farmer. Do you use these things? Yeah, we've started to use them. It's fairly new to us, but where we've seen a good response, and I'm 00:03:13 not as good at naming what it's for, is in the crop residue, right? Yeah. 00:03:18 So we're trying to grow just a massive corn crop, and with that comes almost like a tree stump of a corn stalk. 00:03:27 Yeah. So to get that broke down has been a real challenge for us, especially on a corn bean rotation. 00:03:33 Uh-huh. So to break that stalk down, to get that residue managed so that we can get in there and plant beans in the next year, 00:03:42 we've seen a good response on the bio side of things from that. Frankly, I wish we'd done it sooner. 00:03:48 Right. And I wish we had it on more fields. I love that example because it's a good segue. I think everyone can understand residue breakdown, right? 00:03:56 And you need soil biology and microbes- Yeah ... to do that work, and we're just using that, an additional additive to accelerate that- 00:04:05 Right ... with additional microbes. One of the places I think that could have a lot of value in our area is we have some hills where we don't 00:04:13 like to get out there and till that up. FSA office doesn't like us to get out there and till that up. Right. 00:04:18 But we still got to have it broken down in order to get good contact with the ground for the next year and to get a good, healthy, 00:04:26 even emergence. Yep. So we like it, not as a replacement for a tillage tool, but in a way, in some of those hills, it's certainly effective in that area. 00:04:36 Yeah. So this is all one product specific, breaking down residue, which if you're tuning into this show, you probably understand, okay, what's 00:04:44 he talking about? Yeah, after the harvest is done, you've got all this stuff out there, especially like you said, for corn because it's a massive plant and it's got 00:04:50 all that stuff out there, and you want it to cover the ground. It's good for soil erosion, but you also got all those nutrients that are inside of 00:04:55 it still that you want to get back into the soil. Keep the cycle going. Give me a more 00:05:01 thorough rundown of the difference between all these. Your company has begun using a term biosolutions. Right. Yeah. 00:05:08 So like space-age polymer. You understand what that means. Yeah, absolutely. 00:05:11 In the old days- Yeah ... when they had some thing you're supposed to sell, like on one of those call 1-800 and all that kind of thing, it's made of a space-age polymer. 00:05:20 Nobody knew what the hell it was, but they knew it must be cool because it was a space-age polymer. 00:05:23 Right. Yeah. Is a biosolution a space-age polymer? It can be. It can be. Biosolutions is kind of a catch-all term. It's basically using 00:05:33 bio-based solutions, so whether that's something we derive from biology or biology itself to solve issues that we previously used 00:05:44 chemistry to solve, right? If we think about the traditional model of agriculture, it's based on chemistry, right? Because we could measure chemistry. 00:05:55 Yep. It was simple. We knew chemistry. We didn't really have the tools to measure soil biology and plant biology very well in the past. 00:06:07 Now that we have those tools to measure ... this biological activity in the soil, on the plant surface, inside the plant, 00:06:16 we can actually manage that, right? So that's where these biosolutions come in, is that we can manage what we can now measure. 00:06:25 Now you're touching on the fertility part and the aspect of it, which I think is a very much more complex, 00:06:34 let's say environment and paradigm to have nutrient release, figure out how to manage nutrient management. 00:06:39 Right. But your question earlier, can it replace synthetic chemistry from a crop protection standpoint, right? And I guess I go back to, yeah, if you think about molecule discovery and how that 00:06:50 has really slowed down, yes, there's a demand for biologicals from an environmental standpoint and sustainability, but it's also the new frontier in just 00:07:00 molecule discovery, so that we have additional modes of action and can maintain IPM programs, right? 00:07:06 Yeah. IPM programs? Integrated pest management. Okay. Thought you were a farmer, Dave. You're using a lot of industry-specific vernacular. All right, so here's the thing. 00:07:15 Biosolutions is a catch-all term. Everything's underneath that. What's the difference between some of it? It's what it's supposed to do. 00:07:20 So it's biologically based versus synthetically based, right? Correct. 00:07:23 And it's supposed to do this thing. It's supposed to either be a pesticide or a growth... But I'm going to give you the straight, and I want to get to my farmer right here. 00:07:30 One of the knocks on some of these products has been, I'm not saying yours, it promises everything. It's like the magic elixir where the guy is 00:07:40 out there next to the Conestoga wagon, holding up his thing and says, "That's right. And if you buy this," remember Outlaw Josey Wales, "If you buy this, it'll 00:07:46 take out tobacco stains. It'll also make us get rid of warts, and it'll also improve your sex life." I mean, there's a lot of promise that goes with some 00:07:54 of these, and it becomes a lot of chaff to sift through in the wind. Yeah. 00:08:00 Right. I'd agree with that. And it is a bit of the Wild West and the industry needs to mature beyond that, right? 00:08:09 Yep. And get more to what we think of as synthetic chemistry, like modes of action and all that. Kelly said it 00:08:17 in a previous episode. I think it's a disservice to just call everything, quote, snake oil, right? Yeah. 00:08:24 It's just because we're in early days of the industry- Sure ... and we've got to figure some stuff out. 00:08:28 I remember when MBPT, a urease inhibitor, was thought of as rainbow dust to protect our nitrogen, inhibit nitrogen loss. 00:08:38 And today that's a standard. So I think we'll get there. I agree that we will get there, and so I ask the question, is it going to replace? 00:08:45 Well, what's it going to take? You brought up chemistry. Right. Yeah. 00:08:50 Well, chemistry was always about kill. Right. And what we're supposed to do in agriculture is actually nurture, right? Correct. 00:08:56 It's supposed to be about life. Which allegedly, every farm person, you wouldn't be alive without us. I have a sticker, starvation sucks. 00:09:04 Without agriculture, we'd all star- I get all that. Well, what's the answer always been? Kill. Kill. So- 00:09:10 Right ... I think that the future looks maybe a little less toxic. So take me down the road. 00:09:18 Yeah, absolutely. I think what we're trying to do with these biologicals and biostimulants is to fortify these natural systems, right? 00:09:29 So these plants have natural defense systems, for example, right? So we can allow these plants to defend themselves rather 00:09:37 than having to kill the organisms that are present. We can stimulate biology to help release nutrients that are already in 00:09:48 the soil rather than having to force feed that crop, right? So there's a lot of opportunity there. 00:09:55 I think the old model of kill and force feed is one that's probably going out of business. 00:10:05 Yeah, I think the force feed's a good analogy. So one of the things that we've seen, and Kelly's seen it, is how do we unlock what's there? 00:10:14 Right. So we have a lot of what we need already in the soil. It's unlocking it and allowing that plant to- Yeah 00:10:21 ... take that up. And I'm certainly no expert in how that works. That's where you guys come in. But 00:10:28 agriculture needs that, and I think that could be the new frontier. You must farm in Iowa and not South Georgia Beach. 00:10:33 I'm definitely in Iowa. Yeah. Well, because that's the thing, and that's the discount that they always get is, "Well, you're up there in Iowa where the soil can ruin anything," and whatever. 00:10:42 But okay, does that matter? Does that matter as far as these products go? 00:10:47 Yeah. So maybe these products have more of a place where there's already rich nutrients, or do they have more of a place where there's no nutrients? 00:10:53 That's an excellent point. I don't think there's a definitive answer to that, which I know causes some confusion. But there's probably different applications 00:11:02 for a certain microbe in Iowa than there is in South Georgia, depending on what you're trying to achieve, right? Yeah. 00:11:09 You're not trying to unlock a bunch of nutrients in beach sand. You're trying to feed that crop and make sure things stay available, versus in deep prairie soils, yeah, you got to unlock what's there. 00:11:20 Well, that helps us from a bottom line, right? So if we don't have to go force feed nitrogen to it at $1,200 a ton, makes this a huge difference. 00:11:30 I don't know what it's like in those other places, but I like where we're at, and being able to unlock that's huge. 00:11:36 Yeah, absolutely. So what do you think, you as the farmer, all right, are we going to get to where you look back, you're handing the farm over to one of your kids, 00:11:44 and you're like, "Oh my God, we used to go out here and literally just nuke stuff. It was like napalm. And 00:11:53 now we're not doing that." I hope that's the case because I believe that we've done some damage. 00:11:58 Yeah. I think that's entirely possible. That's probably the most exciting part of this whole conversation, right? Is 00:12:05 we used to go out and nuke everything. We had to. But that was our only option. Well, we didn't necessarily have to. 00:12:11 It was the most productive It was the easiest way to be productive. It was the only way to stay in business, though, right? 00:12:18 Yeah. You weren't going to pull all those weeds by hand. Yeah, right. 00:12:20 You couldn't farm on any scale. I think what may force us there, Damian, is regulation. And we're seeing this. 00:12:29 Mm-hmm. We've talked about this on other episodes. You've got chemical regulations. We've got chemicals going down the Mississippi into the Gulf. 00:12:37 We've got fertilizer- Fertilizer regulations ... regulations. And it's possible that those regulations really force us into the biological space- 00:12:46 Mm-hmm ... on the farm. Yeah. The question then is, and the lament of the producer is going to be, 00:12:54 "They're regulating this away from me. I can't use it." And by the way, some of that old chemistry's been pretty effective. 00:12:59 Yeah. It was kind of harsh. Yeah. I owned a house in Arizona once that I climbed around the attic, I climbed around it, looked around the whole 00:13:06 foundation. Not one termite. Of all the properties I've owned in Arizona, we had to spray for termites every three months. Whatever they used in 1971, they laid down when that house got built- 00:13:18 Nice ... must've been some amazing chemistry because it took care of termites for 50 more years. 00:13:22 Yeah, and it probably shortened somebody's lifespan when they sprayed that. Well, yeah. Right. 00:13:26 Right. There was no termites, though. Yeah. So anyway, let's admit it. We had some pretty damn effective stuff, but also it had some pretty bad, nasty side benefits. 00:13:35 That's where I think the promise of this is, but then the answers will be, "Yeah, great. The stuff they used in 1971, used it once for 50 years." This 00:13:43 stuff is less toxic, but there's the efficacy. Right. Yeah, and another point to that is that increasing prices of these 00:13:56 fertilizers, these pesticides. I think that's also forcing people's hands into these bio solutions, right? That's a good point. 00:14:05 Yeah. It's about domestic supply. Right. Take Brazil for instance. They're probably 10 to 15 years ahead of the United States in this category. 00:14:12 In biological- Absolutely, right ... utilization and production agriculture. Correct. 00:14:15 I've heard that repeatedly. Yeah, but they also do a lot of on-farm production or localized productions of these products. So if you think about most of our chemistries today coming out of 00:14:25 China and other places, we've got to think about how we diversify our supply chain and switching to a different category that may be easier to manufacture locally and 00:14:36 safer. So where's biological's first category of taking over? On the fertilizer side, or on the herbicide and pesticide side? 00:14:47 I think it's probably both. It's- Oh, for God's sakes man, Stan! Yeah. Well, 00:14:52 the nuance here is that these biologicals, oftentimes the biofertilizer 00:15:01 category- Yep ... is a biopesticide indirectly and vice versa, right? Because it 00:15:06 makes the plant more... Yeah, you're increasing plant health, right? Right. 00:15:10 So any time you improve plant health, you're improving plant defenses. If you improve plant defenses, you're improving- 00:15:16 Disease resistance is correlated obviously with plant health. Absolutely. 00:15:21 I got it. Well, you know what the original biological pesticide was? BT. Okay. 00:15:27 It's a microbe that eats insect guts. Yeah. And they figured out how to put it actually in the plant- Right 00:15:34 ... and give us BT protection. Yeah. So you see it happening on both fronts, but I didn't hear a 10-34-0 or a 00:15:43 12-12-12 fertilizer number on this. Right. Yeah, I think it probably depends on the pressures. 00:15:50 If the fertilizer prices continue to rise like they are, especially nitrogen, I think we will see 00:15:56 the biofertilizer side be the first to- Is it less expensive? ... switch through. 00:16:04 It is in the long run, and it could be in the short run as well, depending on certain factors and of course using the right product in the 00:16:11 right place, right? What's the next thing you're going to use? Okay, you use it for stalk breakdown. Okay, that's easy. And it is easy. And by the way, that's how you're supposed to 00:16:20 begin your experiment with some new technology, with maybe the easiest- Yeah 00:16:24 ... the most rudimentary, or the one that fits you the best. We wanted to start with something that was going to be simple, right? 00:16:29 And also- We really couldn't screw that up ... it's pretty inexpensive as well. It was. Yep, if that didn't work, we can go out, till it up, or we could no-till it 00:16:35 just like we have- Yeah ... every other- What's your next biological foray? I would love to see something to replace some of the nitrogen, 00:16:42 or at least allow us to use less nitrogen. Mm-hmm. Less of the synthetic. Through this discussion, one of the things that occurred to me, and I think might 00:16:53 be interesting is, maybe you've got a cost savings. I don't know. Maybe you don't. But maybe you've got an income step-up as well, right? In meaning that, 00:17:05 look at what we've done with carbon, right? Those markets want to see a biological. Not necessarily just a biological- 00:17:14 Yeah ... they want to see something different than synthetic. And 00:17:18 we, on our farm, have captured revenue- Mm-hmm ... because of what we've done in the carbon marketplace. Mm. 00:17:24 So I think it could fit well there. Yeah. Trey, does your stuff make... Okay, does biological equal organic? 00:17:33 No. Okay. Is your stuff labeled organic? Our seafood hydrolysates do have an organic label. Understood. 00:17:42 But our other chemistry that's more nitrogen-focused is not. And it's not even really a biological. 00:17:49 It's not. It's just a molecule and delivers nitrogen more effectively. If I am going to face environmental pressure, 00:17:56 and we all think we are as an industry, I think it starts with fertility because we're already seeing it in Iowa, nitrates in the river, et cetera. Do you have an answer? 00:18:04 Do you have an answer that helps me make it so that I'm not going to be found guilty of letting nitrates get into the Raccoon River in Des Moines? 00:18:11 Look, you're going to reach over and punch me in the face when I start talking science and agronomy. 00:18:15 Probably not. Probably not. But that's what it is, right? It's like we need to figure out ways to apply nitrogen when the plant is growing and taking it up. 00:18:22 Understood. Right? It's not only about application and changing our current habits. Is there a biological solution That 00:18:32 also works with that and makes it, oh, easier now. Look, I think the industry is moving that direction. 00:18:41 I think what's difficult is, one, dealing with live microbes in foreign environments. Have we perfected that? I think in some cases, right. 00:18:49 I think the performance of those have been erratic just because of that factor. The other factor is, if you think about nitrogen fixation, 00:18:58 taking nitrogen out of the air and putting it into a usable form, which is our nitrogen fertilizer, that is energy-intensive. 00:19:05 And whether you're doing it in a factory or whether you're doing it biologically- 00:19:10 Yeah ... it is the same physics. So there's some barriers we may not be able to get around. Can we supplement? I think so, yes. 00:19:18 But we wouldn't be here today if the Haber-Bosch method wasn't created so that we could take our yields and feed. 00:19:26 Yeah, right. And the yield curve just shattered after that. Okay. So some of this stuff, Kurt, it sounds cute on a little Facebook post by 00:19:37 Betsy, the organic gardener. Right. "You don't need to use those harsh chemicals. Just use vinegar, and some copper, and some Dawn dish 00:19:45 detergent, and I don't know, a stick of Wrigley's, and then- Yeah 00:19:49 ... throw it in there." Oh, yeah. And you do that enough, and it actually creates all kinds of imbalances that are out here. That's going to be the next argument against the biological things. 00:19:59 Like, yeah, I get it, maybe we overused atrazine. By God, it worked. And you know what? Now you're using this stuff. 00:20:04 Organic farms, my understanding is there's vineyards that are going to have toxic levels of copper- 00:20:11 Absolutely ... because they use copper sulfate. Yep. What's the grind for us moving forward that maybe you think is a hurdle? 00:20:20 Well, I think the biggest hurdle is actually the people that, in a sense, they go full board one way, in some cases where 00:20:32 they totally get off the synthetic train, right, and they go full regenerative, organic, right? I think you can 00:20:43 cause a lot of imbalances that way, like you said. I think the better way to approach this is to slowly integrate some of these biological practices, like- 00:20:52 Because the concern is you go from overusing this thing to overusing this thing, and now you- 00:20:56 You go from one extreme to the other, and natural systems need transitions, right? So also, though, okay, let's go natural systems, because I think everybody here... 00:21:03 What did Kelly call me? Well, he's called you a lot of things. Well, he's called me a lot of things, and I don't think that's right. 00:21:08 It's a good thing I'm thick-skinned. Okay. So here's the deal. When you're looking at trying to do something, nothing we do in agriculture is 00:21:18 natural. You just said the word natural. Yeah. So let's talk. Let's say I'm a skeptic. This is what Kelly called me, a skeptic. There's nothing natural about what we do. 00:21:27 So if you're overloading with this biological thing, okay, there's nothing natural about fish products being on my little field down the road over here. 00:21:37 That field has been underwater since maybe the glaciers melted 10,000 years ago. So we're already changing things, and it's not really natural. 00:21:44 Then it runs into that risk of, do biologicals have a risk factor of the old lady that swallowed a fly, then she swallowed a this to eat the 00:21:52 fly, and all that. There's that concern that you're messing things up a little bit. It's cleaner. It's not as nasty as atrazine, 00:22:00 but... Go back to Kurt's comment. It's all about balance, right? Right. 00:22:04 Like, yes, I think too much of anything is bad, right? Yeah. Yeah. 00:22:10 But I didn't know you were going to get all philosophical on us and start talking about what is natural. 00:22:15 Well, also, I referenced the little old lady that swallowed a fly, which is like a fable from when you're a child. 00:22:19 Yeah. You're impressing me with your literary prowess. But no, nothing we do is natural. 00:22:26 Right. Right? But we need to, one, protect the environment for society writ large, and we need to protect our farms so they're productive. Simple as that. 00:22:34 Yeah. Yeah, you mentioned it earlier. You said when this farm goes to your kids, well, I think one of the things we want to focus on is just being a good steward of 00:22:42 the land and transitioning to the next generation. Was I able to bring this to a state that it was in a better shape than when I got it? 00:22:51 Yeah. And I think this is at least something to look at in order to help accomplish that, while maybe also helping the bottom 00:22:59 line. I want to point out that in farming, we always say agriculture, about being a steward of the land and leaving it in better shape. 00:23:07 I think we can look at some of our overutilization of synthetic fertility and chemistry and say, well, if you left it to 00:23:13 the next generation somewhere between the '60s and the '90s, I'm not sure that you hadn't degraded it a little bit with overusage of that stuff. 00:23:22 Yeah. I think that's true. Absolutely. Yeah. If for no other reason, maybe that's why you want to look at it. Maybe it doesn't work for you, or maybe you want to start and just try it. 00:23:33 You don't want to go full bore one way or the other, but you at least want to look at it. It could be supplemented, for sure. 00:23:40 Yeah. I think that the difficulty is we're calling it a singular thing, but it is a broad category, right? 00:23:46 Sure. Yeah. So it just goes back to what are you trying to achieve, right? And do your research, and try to pick out products that are going to achieve 00:23:53 that end goal. Yeah. And just knowing that there's a big difference between biologicals, right, which you might be trying to fix nitrogen or do something in soil, versus a 00:24:01 biostimulant, which is more plant-based or could give you an element of crop protection. 00:24:05 Yeah. For us, in that simple example, just trying to break down the stalks, I'm really happy we tried it, because the alternative is you go use fuel, and you 00:24:13 disc it up. Which then you got compaction, you got erosion- Yep 00:24:15 ... you got degradation of- And we've done it that way for a long time ... soil structure. Yeah, degradation of soil structure. 00:24:20 Do me a favor, just do that thing where you said, here's a difference. Biological, biostimulant, da da. 00:24:25 You just said it's It's really in what they do. Yeah, exactly. So in broad terms, biologicals are going to be living organisms, but they're more going to function in the fertility space, whether they're 00:24:36 trying to fix nitrogen or create nutrient release, versus a biostimulant is meant to actually act on the plant and plant functions. There's probably some exceptions to that, but it's good broad 00:24:47 terms. I ask the question, is this going to replace chemistry and synthetic? You say, no, it's going to be a slow integration. 00:24:52 I think the regulation is coming faster than you're even giving it credit for, and I don't applaud this. I'm not cheering it on. 00:25:00 I read a lot. I pay attention. I travel every week of my life, and I look around. I think it's going to be a regulatory or an environmental 00:25:10 force that brings this on, and it's going to happen faster than you probably think. 00:25:14 Yep. I wouldn't take that away from you. Do the economics get hit? Do the economics improve or do they get worse when that happens? 00:25:22 Probably temporarily they take a hit, but I think ultimately in the long run, they will improve. We'll figure out which land 00:25:30 is best suited to support agriculture as well, right? Mm-hmm. So if we take in those cases, we 00:25:38 might would have to take some of the fringe acreage out, which could be- This is that beach sand in Georgia that Trey was talking about? 00:25:44 Potentially, yeah. Well, I hope so. Or we switch crops, right? Yeah. 00:25:49 So we'd start growing crops that might be instead of growing corn in south Georgia, we might stick with cotton and peanuts. 00:25:56 So you're old enough to know in your career when these products came really into... There was always a handful probably back in the old days, whatever, and you always 00:26:04 thought that person was a little bit crazy out there doing it, but it really became a thing, I want to say starting when ag had its big run starting like 00:26:10 2021. All of a sudden, there was money being dumped out here to have these ag biological type companies. 00:26:16 Yeah. Of which you are one. Yep. That's it. I think once the science started getting applied, and you take the model that the major ag chem 00:26:25 companies have, and take a product development mindset and a scientific development mindset, that's where I think it's starting to change. 00:26:32 We're starting to look at specific use cases for specific outcomes. All right. We're recording this in 2026. Take me three years from now, 2029. 00:26:40 These biological companies are, we drive by them, it looks like Burma-Shave signs in the 1950s. 00:26:46 I think we're just going to have to change the way we think about it, and it's not going to become a different category. They're just different modes of action. 00:26:52 And so I think with artificial intelligence, et cetera, molecule discovery, I think has the potential to explode. 00:26:57 How many of these companies are no longer here? Probably 80% of them, which is a natural evolution. Kind of like tech. 00:27:05 Exactly. Car companies, every new innovation. Yeah, 100%. So in the meantime, yeah, we all have to do our homework to understand what works on our farm and what's efficacious. 00:27:14 Yeah. But the industry will mature. And so I did just read that we're talking about new innovation. 80% of the dot-com era tech companies 00:27:23 no longer exist. All right. Get me out of here. The thought that you have on biologicals and as it pertains to Adam Ulrich's farm. 00:27:29 Yeah. We want to use those as best we can to replace the synthetics as much as we can, as long as there's a positive ROI. 00:27:37 There you go. That's why you tune into "The Grain." We hear a good wrap-up like that. I'm talking to Trey Kutts and Kurt Knight there with Tidal Grow Ag Science, 00:27:43 the sponsor of this episode and other episodes. We very much appreciate your support. They're doing some plot work down the road at my farm, and I'm really excited about 00:27:50 seeing it. This is the second year of doing that. If you want to learn more about their product lineup, go to tidalgrowag.com. Tidal like a big wave of water, grow like what you want your kids to do, ag, A-G 00:27:59 like the business we all work in. Tidalgrowag.com. Check it out. Adam Ulrich joined us all the way from Iowa. We appreciate him being here. 00:28:06 If you enjoyed this, also share it around and go check out other stuff. Go to XtremeAg.farm. Go to our YouTube channel, hit subscribe. 00:28:11 It doesn't cost anything. It'll really help our viewability. And if you have a topic you'd like us to cover sitting right here, you know what? 00:28:18 Submit it, and we'll see if we can get to it. Till next time, thanks for being here. I'd say cheers, but you know what? That's Kurt's glass, not mine. So till next time, from "The Grain." 664 00:28:25.240 --> 00:28:25.900