Podcast: How Soil Pathogens are Stealing Your Yield?

00:00 Are soil pathogens robbing you of yield? Do you even know that's what we're talking about in this episode 00:06 of Extreme Ag? Cutting the Curve? Welcome to Extreme ags Cutting the Curve podcast, where real farmers share real insights 00:14 and real results to help you improve your farming operation. This episode is brought to you by Simon Innovation, 00:21 protect your crops and maximize yield with a full lineup of innovative precision tools engineered 00:26 to enhance the efficiency and accuracy of your sprayer. Visit simon innovations.com and start getting more ROI out of your sprayer. 00:34 And now here's your host, Damien Mason. Hey there. Welcome to another fantastic episode of Extreme Ice Cutting the Curve. 00:41 I got a great one for you today because you know what we're talking about hidden risk. We're talking about something that you, 00:46 you might have going on in your farming operation and you're not even aware of it. We're talking about soil pathogens 00:51 that are stealing you at your yield. They're, they're costing you money. Uh, maybe you're treating for certain pathogens 00:57 and not others that are actually where your, your rob is coming from. Things are better technologically, 01:03 and that's why I've got Mike Tweedy on here. He's with Pattern Ag, a leader in predictive analytics for your agronomic purposes. 01:10 And I've got Rebecca Helge, she's with Integrated Ag Solutions. She works alongside Mike Evans and, uh, Mike Gro, um, 01:16 and, uh, between Iowa and South Dakota. But she's really everywhere. She's got a background in soil biologicals. 01:22 Uh, she now actually works with pattern ag, uh, on as well, uh, with some of their, uh, use some of their technology. 01:28 And we covered this topic briefly in Iowa, and I said, we've gotta get more about this. So I don't know who wants to lead off here. 01:33 I think Michael Mal toss it to you. You told me in July, I had a call with you and I said, Hey, 01:39 Kelly Garrett here in Iowa just is discovering that they've got some problems that were way worse than they thought. 01:45 And now he's dispensing Mike Evans all over the place, say, you know, good god, I didn't realize it was bad. 01:50 And then you and I just stuck. And it was about fusarium specifically. So kind of take me there and gimme the setup. 01:57 Yeah, so, so the background on this is that our data science and agronomy team last year conducted, um, uh, 02:03 studies on 30,000 commercial acres across the Midwest. So essentially what we did is we went in and tested those fields looking at the, the entire biology 02:14 of those fields across a very wide area. We didn't, uh, instruct the growers on how, uh, what practices that they should do. 02:21 They just went ahead and ran their normal practices. And then at the end of the year, we ran, uh, yield on those fields to see 02:29 and specifically look at what were the hidden yield robbers that were out there. So things, things that they're not managing for today. 02:38 And it's not because it, it, it's, it's no more than just the fact that they don't know how bad it is, just like Kelly discovered on his farm, 02:45 how bad the fusarium was. And so, um, we compared yield and then we looked at what were those big yield robbers. And so for example, in corn, what we found was 02:57 that fusarium was the biggest yield robber. Now what do I mean by that? Well, we compared fields that had low levels of fusarium, 03:05 and we compared fields that had high levels of fusarium. And then we, uh, we looked at 03:11 what were the yield differences between those. The average across those 30,000 acres was about, uh, 32 bushels loss between fields with high levels 03:23 and fields with low levels. And in, in some cases, we saw the spread as much as 92 bushels where growers were losing 03:31 that yield potential. And, and the reason why that's important and why we wanna bring this to light is that one, 03:39 we've never been able to really measure fusarium, uh, in the soil. And, and look and look at how much was actually out there. 03:46 Two, it's just assumed that the upstream seed treatment fungicide that you're putting on there is gonna 03:51 be enough to protect it. And that's simply not the case. The fungicide only lasts for a short period 03:57 of time, and then it's gone. But if you have really high levels, then it's gonna have a detrimental impact on that plant. 04:04 All right, Rebecca, you're in the field, you've been in the field, your, your career. Um, so what do I do? 04:10 I find out this is, by the way, I never knew this before. Kelly Garrett Farms, uh, he, 04:15 he's a significantly forward thinking farmer, and he's just finding out in the year 2024 that he's got yield lost a er. 04:22 Is it because he was too lazy to actually dispense his guys to go out and test for it? 04:26 Or is it because we didn't know how to test for it, or we didn't have the, the technology to test for it too five years ago? 04:33 Yeah, so the technology that I, Are you gonna say he is lazy? But I just, I asked you a 04:37 question. Are you gonna say, Kelly, you're Lazy? Okay. Well, no, I wouldn't say he's lazy. 04:40 He's kind of my boss. Definitely. I just wondering if you were gonna say that definitely Has a great team around. 04:43 I'm always looking for the latest technology and, uh, you know, we had been working, trying some other companies, soil testing, 04:53 and with the pattern testing, it was just more actionable. The data was more actionable, 04:59 and it was very clear what needed to be done. And so we started working with them this spring, went over a number of acres on Kelly's fields. 05:08 You know, he's wanting to increase yield all the time and become more efficient. And, you know, you really can't become the most efficient 05:15 unless you know, um, your nutrients, what disease is present. And also also your bio fertility, which pattern also shows. 05:24 So I can make sure my plant is in nutritional balance and the soil is a nutritional and biological balance, but also see the disease pressure. 05:33 So we, we wanna see that full circle so we can make in-season adjustments, or we can crop plan the whole season ahead of time, 05:41 depending on when we test. Okay. So did we not have the ability, you know, Mr. Tweed's in the business of soil analytics? 05:49 I mean, that's pattern ags entire thing is that, you know, here we are now we've got the technology to, 05:54 to show you your risk factors or even presence of these things in these soils that we didn't know about because we 06:01 couldn't detect it beforehand. Is that what's going on with the fusarium issue in Garrett Land and cattle in Iowa? 06:09 Yeah. Well, Without, Sorry, sorry. Well, without having done a test like this before, there really would've been no way to know, right? 06:18 Unless symptoms were showing up in the plant. Right? And just because there's, just because a plant is, has disease pressure and is suffering 06:28 because of that doesn't mean you're going to see any symptoms. For example, I could be, I could have a horrible headache 06:34 and a fever right now, and you have no idea. You know, so your plants are the same way. They might be fighting something off 06:41 and, uh, so they're not going to reproduce like they normally would, and you really have no idea 06:47 because they're not showing any symptoms. Understood. So did, did the tech, when did the technology Mike exist that we could go out 06:57 and actually say, okay, you've got this thing five years ago we didn't know, right? That's right. I mean, the technology's been 07:03 around since the Human Genome project we're using, utilizing the same technology that mapped the human genome. But we could not do that at scale in agriculture 07:12 because the cost of DNA sequencing was so high, but it, that cost has come down over the past six, seven years. 07:20 Yeah. And it's allowed us to, to utilize this where it's affordable for the grower to be able to look at what are the risks that are out there 07:29 is just as important though. You know, I I, I've, I've been told, well, don't just tell me how I'm drowning in the water. 07:36 Tell me how I get myself out of this or save myself. And really what Rebecca talked about was balance the biological balance in the soil. 07:44 It is just as important to have really good levels of, uh, phosphorus, solubilization, plant growth, promoters, 07:51 microrisal, fungi. Those are all the things that make that plant healthy. And if, if you've got really good levels of those 07:58 that can actually help fight off things like fusarium and pythium and OC and things like that. And so that's the balance that she's talking about. 08:06 And so, you know, low p solubilization is another one that is a huge yield robber. I mean, on, in, on average in our 30,000 acre study, 08:16 we were looking at 14 bushels of yield loss in soy, uh, in corn, and about five to seven in soybeans. If you just solve that problem because 08:26 Of low phosphorus solubilization, no, Yeah, low phosphorus solubilization. What that means is those are the genetic pathways 08:34 that exist in the soil. So your, your pseudomonas, your bacteria, your trichoderma species, your microrisal fungi, 08:40 those are the pathways that break down rock phosphorus into water soluble phosphorus. 08:46 And you can get a, a big, big yield improvement just by opening up those pathways. And based on all the millions of acres 08:54 that we have tested across the Midwest, 60% of fields are low in p solubilization. And so, again, that gets back to the balance 09:03 that Rebecca was talking about. It's not just the bad stuff we've got to bring into balance the good stuff. 09:09 Alright, Rebecca, back to you about the testing. The point is, the person listening to this is like, well, wait a minute, maybe I have this problem. 09:15 That's where the pattern ag thing comes in. You didn't know this was going on at Garrett's until this year. 09:20 When could, how many years did we miss? Did we miss three years that we could have known this? Do we miss two years? It ma it makes me a much more 09:27 motivated person financially. If I say, good god, if I'd have caught this two years ago, that's a couple hundred thousand dollars I missed out 09:35 on. That's why I'm asking the question. Well, sure. Well, you, you know, they're living organisms, these pathogens, so every year they're not, 09:42 you're not decreasing the load, they're multiplying. So it's definitely a multi-year. Every year they're gonna get bigger in, in quantity. 09:51 So that's why you wanna do things like manage your residue because they're living in there, do these types of testing. 09:58 So you can crop plan this season ahead of time, just like you do for your nutrition. You can do this now for biologicals 10:06 or seed treatments or fungicides. You can use this test for all those things. And so this is really a way that growers are gonna be able 10:14 to break through the yield ceiling once they know everything that's out there. How many years was it a problem? 10:20 How many years do you think we've been, how many years have we been losing yield? Have we been having our yield robbed from us 10:26 because of pathogens using the Garrett, uh, farm as an example forever and it came to a head? Is it, is it worse now than it was? 10:38 I would say it for sure would've to be worse than it was. But one thing that, uh, Mike and Mike 10:43 and Kelly do really well on his farm is keeping the plant nutritionally balanced. 10:47 And, you know, when you've got a nutritionally balanced plant, you have a less susceptible ho host to disease, no matter, you know, the pressure that's out there. 10:56 So that's, that's one of the reasons you wanna keep your plants in balance when you do things like sap testing 11:01 and make adjustments in seasons. So, you know, it's all about that disease triangle, you know, your envi environment, your pathogen 11:08 and your host plant, and, um, keep that disease at bay if you can keep a more nutritionally balanced plant. Okay, speaking of nutritionally balanced plant, I'm going 11:19 to, uh, tell you about my friends and nature's and then I wanna come back to you guys and I want you to tell me about how I can prevent robbing, 11:25 uh, yield being robbed from my fields due to ISTs nature, just focused on providing sustainable farming solutions 11:30 and helping maintain your crop's potential throughout the season. You know what, we're gonna be in a down farm economy. 11:36 You've been hearing about it, commodity prices, et cetera, et cetera. So you gotta fertilize, 11:40 you gotta go ahead and nurture the plant. You've gotta keep it balanced, uh, to Rebecca's point, but you can know what, you don't need 11:45 to break the bank doing this. This is where nature can help you using high quality liquid fertilizers, powered by Nature's bio. 11:51 Okay? You can target specific periods of influence throughout the growing season via precision placement techniques as a means to mitigate plant stress, 11:58 enhance crop yields, and boost your farm's return on investment. That's the most important thing. 12:02 Go to nature's N-A-C-H-U-R s.com to learn more. Alright? The person listening to this is saying, okay, 12:08 maybe I've got pathogen problems out here. What do I do? Who starts? Well, Mike, go start. Yeah, the discovery is the first thing. 12:17 Uh, it's just like if you go to the doctor, you gotta find out what's wrong with you before you can figure out what medicine that you need. 12:23 And so it's the same thing when you look at the biology, the soil microbiome is, is so much, 12:28 far more complex than any other microbiome on earth. It changes constantly. Pathogen levels change constantly 12:36 because there's a direct interaction with mother nature. And so, uh, you know, when folks ask, well, how, 12:42 how often should I be looking at this? My answer is, how often do you build a crop plan? You build a crop plan every year 12:48 because your, your pathogen loads and the things that you're going to be protecting against yield are going to, um, are going 12:55 to change every single year. And, and just like Rebecca said, it depends on the host crop. 13:01 We've documented easily that when you go from a corn soybean rotation, your pathogen loads 13:06 and your bio fertility loads change every single year. So you have to go out and, and see what is actually wrong, and then use that to build a, uh, risk mitigated crop plan. 13:19 I mean, at the end of the day, that's what the grower wants to know is, okay, it's interesting 13:23 that I have all these things out there. Now tell me what to do. That's What, in fact, using Mike Mike's, uh, Mr. 13:30 Tweed's, uh, example right there. So if I used pattern ag testing and I, and I did it four years ago, three years ago, 13:38 you're telling me, great, you better get a new test because like everything, it moves, it's living organism. So a test from two 13:43 or three years ago about pathogen activity in a given field is not, uh, is not up to date, 13:51 Absolutely not. You know, it's going to change based on, like Mike said, the environment, but also what crop you planted. 13:58 Did you use fungicides? You know, because we know the fungicides, they're non-selective, so they'll get rid of the bad guys, 14:04 but they'll also get rid of the good guys. Now you're out of balance. So now you actually have a, a gateway for more pathogens to come in. 14:11 So it, it's cyclical, right? So it's important you keep testing, especially when you know you have a problem. 14:18 'cause you wanna test the change over time and make sure that what you're doing is in fact making a difference positively. 14:26 Okay. All right. So I find out that I've got this stuff. Is it, is all of it addressable 14:34 or is there some stuff like, um, okay, we can help you with this and this, but you're screwed on that and the no one, 14:41 Yeah, they only thing that you really can't help somebody on is, um, you know, if they've got heavy metals 14:47 or things like that in their soil. But when it comes to just about everything out there, everything is solvable. 14:53 Everything is a solvable problem. And so, uh, for example, on fusarium, okay, great, I've got high, really super high levels of fusarium. 15:01 What do I do with that? Well, one, you want to get beneficials in there to really balance that e that ecosystem. 15:08 But two, you can put a really inexpensive in furrow and, uh, fungicide out there at planting to protect that, uh, to protect that crop. 15:17 And that's really what we try to inform on is, you know, okay, what is it that we want to do? 15:22 The other thing is there are risks out there that nobody even, or that most people don't even know about, like red crown rod in soybeans. 15:29 Uh, when I go to, when I go to meetings, I always like to ask, whether it be growers or dealers or whoever, who in here has heard 15:36 of Red Crown rod in soybeans? And hardly anybody raises their hand, probably an agronomist or two. 15:42 And red crown rod accounts for about 30% of fields that we've tested across the Midwest. It's a relatively new really bad disease. 15:52 I mean, it will rob yield more than soybeans or sudden death syndrome. And in some cases, according to the University of Kentucky, 15:59 when it's in combination in a field with, uh, soybeans s nematode, it could be a hundred percent yield loss. 16:05 And so understanding what that threat is out there, because what, what you see above ground may not be what is actually below ground. 16:13 You've gotta understand those things before you go in and plant that crop. You're gonna spend this much money, 16:21 why not spend it precisely on the risks that are out there that are gonna rob your yield? 16:25 And usually that boils down to about three or four things. I know what we're talking about sounds complicated, 16:31 but it's really not that complicated. Once you understand that if I just do these three or four things differently, whether that be hybrid 16:38 or variety selection, trait selection, biological product placement, or crop protection, that really will have an impact 16:46 to the tune of, you know, 20, 30 bushels that you're putting in the, uh, in the bin. You would say, obviously, uh, 16:54 you're gonna spend a certain amount. Why not spend some of it on TA testing with, uh, like testing, uh, technology available through pattern ag 17:01 so you understand what the hell you're getting into. So you know where to spend. That's your, that's your your value proposition. Yeah. 17:07 Your value proposition to the farmer is, eh, why fling stuff out there shooting from the hip, know what you're dealing with? 17:14 And you can do that with a yearly test from us. That's the value proposition of pattern ag, right? Planning, planning with a shot 17:21 or with a rifle approach is much more effective than a shotgun approach. You're gonna spend that money, we're not gonna tell you, 17:27 you're gonna spend more or less, we're gonna tell you where it needs to be spent in order to push that yield up 20, 30, 40 bushels. 17:34 Bio fertility products, you know, if you're deficient on those things, those products in and of themselves are the next 10 to 20 bushels in corn. 17:42 We've proven that, you know, in trials that we've done, we've seen as much as 30 bushels in just in a p solubilization product. 17:49 Yeah. But if you don't know that that threat exists, you don't know what to do about that. We inform on what to do. 17:55 Rebecca, when you're, uh, talking to producers, you've been doing this, your, your, your whole career has been in this space, right? 18:01 So what, uh, where you, you made a point when we were talking about your dad. My 70-year-old dad needs, uh, communicated about this. 18:13 Is a 70-year-old farmer open-minded to this sort of testing? Or did he say, oh, that's, uh, that's all ridiculous. 18:22 You know, you talked about biological, so that's all snake oil. This seems to me like, um, bioanalytics, 18:30 I would wanna know, I would wanna know my risk factor and then boom, uh, I would address it. It seems to me that this is where we should take our, 18:38 should take our next, or before we make any spin, it should be on, on what? Yeah. Well, I, depending on the eighth of the grower, 18:46 I mean, I get both of those, I get both of those responses by any age of a grower, so it doesn't matter. 18:53 But, uh, the pattern reports are very, very simple to, to read. And the takeaways are very actionable. 18:58 Especially you'll be working with a dealer to walk you through that anyway. Um, and so 19:05 it really makes the decision making easy. So Mike mentioned the bio fertility, and that really goes hand in hand with the pressure panel 19:13 because, you know, uh, a lot of those microbes, the majority of them that are in those pro products are, 19:21 they have multiple, multiple benefits. So, you know, think, you think about species that solubilize phosphorus, well, they also 19:29 are defensive against pathogens too, so they have multiple benefits. So it's, um, you know, I always promote diverse species, 19:38 biological for a number of reasons. But, um, there's some really cool technology out there now, uh, where you can get protozoa in your products that help 19:48 rebalance the bacteria to fungal racial in the soil, and also fas in there that are actually viruses that go in and consume harmful bacteria in the soil. 19:59 So there's, there's technology out there that people just don't know about yet. And, uh, you can find out more if you get tests like these 20:07 and see what you actually need, then you can actually select the right biological for your field versus just trying something on every field 20:17 and then having it work 50% of the time, and you don't know why. So the person that's listening to this, 20:22 we ask the question up front, are soil pathogens robbing you of yield? There's gonna be a bunch of, uh, we've all dealt with, uh, 20:28 uh, you know, uh, customers before they're gonna say, yeah, I don't have that problem. I I don't even need to take that test. 20:33 I don't have that problem. I know I don't have that problem. What do you say to them? 20:39 Well, I, you know, my response is how do you know, number one? And, uh, you know, I generally don't try to be, you know, 20:48 confrontational with somebody who's very resistant. I just said, you know, when you do want to learn about what's happening out in your soils, 20:55 both from a physical, chemical and biological perspective, we can give you a 360 degree view. 21:01 Yep. One, you know, one of the things that, that I try to start a conversation with too is on things like compaction. 21:08 You know, I can meet a grower where their headspace is, and they're thinking about today, compaction and nutrition, but compaction, you know, according to our results, 21:17 you're losing, growers are losing, on average about 12 bushels of soybean due to compaction and anaerobic conditions. 21:23 And, you know, we can go across that field, we can tell you exactly where the compaction is, how deep it is, and then plug that into a script 21:32 where the equipment can just go, you know, automatically go into depths that, to break those things up. So it's not one thing 21:40 or it's not another, it's a collective of all of those things that have an impact. So, you know, pathogen loads can be the difference between 21:49 a yield of 150 bushels of corn and 220 bushels of corn. But you can also get that, you know, the, the additive effect of things like compaction. 21:58 By the way, Rebecca, he said, Mike Twe says, I don't wanna be confrontational with somebody. I'm confrontational with everybody. 22:04 I just find that this way I understand exactly where we stand. You know what I'm saying? It's, it is important 22:08 to just handle that right off the bat. So I start off confrontational. But anyway, let, 22:13 let me ask you, you're the one in the field. You've been out here saying, well, maybe it's not a fertility issue. 22:20 Maybe it's not the weather, the, maybe it's pathogens, the response. Well, I don't know if I'm confrontational or not, 22:32 but I usually just pose the question, can you, can you tell if I have a, if I have a temperature right now, if I have a fever just by looking at me? 22:40 Yeah. And the answer is usually no. But, um, I'm sorry, I forgot your question. How do I, when you, when you throw it out there, 22:50 by the way, Kelly Garrett says that he and his, his wife and me both have anger, 22:55 and anger is our first, uh, is our go-to emotion. So maybe that's the confrontational thing. So I said, when you've got somebody that's, uh, that you're, 23:04 you're selling, do you have a, they're they're gonna say it's fertility, it's weather. 23:11 'cause the usual farmer things are I'm losing if I'm, if I'm missing out on yield, it's because of it didn't rain, it got too hot. 23:18 Um, I need to put more fertilizer out there. Put more fertilizer out there is kind of like golfers, instead of taking lessons, 23:24 buy another set of buy another driver. I mean, it's the same thing, right? Throw more fertilizer at it. That's the answer. 23:29 So if you tell 'em no, it could be pathogens, what's the response? Yeah. So I usually in a situation like that, 23:38 would just maybe review the disease triangle with them. You know, if they're talking about weather, let's talk about, that's an environment 23:45 we can't really control. So we have to make the plant as resilient as we can. And there's certain environmental conditions 23:52 that make you way more susceptible disease to disease. And I don't think anybody would argue that. But, you know, with that disease triangle, again, you know, 24:00 environment, pathogen, post plant, and you have to keep that host plant as healthy as you can because we cannot control the environment. 24:10 And if there is pathogen pressure, it will move in quickly. Mike Tweedy, you gave numbers on a 30,000 acre study 24:18 and it's pretty significant and then used as much as three two bushel loss, even at $4, even at $3 and 70 cent corn. 24:25 That still is, uh, uh, by my math, uh, let's see, three times. That's a hundred. That's a hundred bucks, 120 bucks. 24:32 Um, that's more than the margin that you're gonna have this year. So how much, how much yield loss is happening out of either 24:42 resistance, meaning, I, I'm, I'm resistant to get the testing down, or I just didn't know the testing worked, or I, I questioned the testing. 24:49 I, I mean, it seems to me that we're leaving a lot of, we're leaving a lot of opportunity. There's lot of opportunity here that's not being realized. 24:56 Yeah. It's, it is really not under not knowing that there, that this exists, that we can now go out 25:03 and look at the biology and we can assess what the risks are, and we can actually put numbers to 25:09 what those yield losses can be expected. If you, if, if you don't mitigate that risk, it didn't really exist before. 25:16 When we get in front of growers, there's not really resistance to the, the technology. 'cause the technology's been around for a long, long time. 25:24 It's just that this is the first time it's been used in agriculture and, you know, things are new, and so people want to experiment. 25:32 But typically when we get the results back, even if we're just testing a field or two so that they can get their feet wet, 25:38 they don't question the results. What it does is it answers questions that they had in their mind about 25:44 what was happening in that field. Why was that field yielding so low? Why am I, why am I experiencing this yield ceiling? 25:51 Every grower knows that they're cap on a on yield, that cap may be two 20, that cap may be one 50. But what we can do is we can show them where the, 26:01 where they're getting capped and then put steps together in a, in a really prescriptive crop plan, easy to understand, 26:08 to go to blow through that yield ceiling. Yeah. So they have to experience it. Yeah. So you, you're, you're not everything, I mean, 26:15 we're not out here telling you, oh God, your fields are dying and here's why. I mean, if it sounds too good to be true, there's a lot 26:21 of fields that are probably just fine, but there's also, uh, an opportunity. There's, you know, Kelly talks about low hanging fruit. 26:26 Rebecca, tell me about a time when you looked at something like when you look at Garrett's farm, 26:29 where's the low hanging fruit? Well, are they missing on 32 bushels? Are they missing on 32 bushels 26:34 that we can easily be rectified with a fungicide treatment at time of planting? Mm well, 26:40 They do a fungicide, they already use a fungicide, time of planting, don't they? They, Right, right. So when 26:44 we saw those numbers this year, you know, yes, there's a, there's methods you can take that are traditional fungicide. 26:51 Uh, we're also doing some things that are a little more holistic with diverse species biologicals with our partners with at Bio Ag management. 26:59 And so what I mean by that is really highly diverse. So in a 50 milliliter test, we'll test out anywhere from 800 over a thousand different 27:09 beneficial species. And that varies just because it's in fermentation. But anyways, what we can do with that is apply 27:17 that in the field, one or two or whatever we decide however many times, and the whole concept is we're gonna outcompete the pathogens. 27:26 So we're gonna put in all these good guys that are gonna compete with the same resources as the bad guys that are out in the field, 27:34 and we're gonna outcompete them. So when you're, you're putting on a biological, you know, the species, the beneficial species count, 27:42 and the diversity is important because if you just pick a single species and you put it into this field 27:47 and it's survival of the fittest, Mm-Hmm. Good luck. Mm-Hmm. Good luck. So, you know, we're doing, we're doing a little bit 27:53 of both traditional, but we're also going holistic, holistic approach as well to rebalance out the soil. What's an average? Mike Tweedy, what do you think? 28:03 We asked our soil passengers, Rob, you of yield. What's the average? I mean, now you're, you and I got together and had a drink a year 28:09 or so ago, which as I remember you put down your credit card. So I'm willing to do that again. 28:14 If you had ever passed through my part of the world, um, and you and I talked about it 28:19 and you said, we're getting to where our data is getting to where it's 28:23 because you've gotten enough foot when Paraag was a newer company, you didn't have as much, uh, uh, book of work. 28:32 Now you have enough acres from enough states, call it pretty much the corn belt, right? Yep. So you must have a number 28:41 that your research shows that pattern ag research shows, we think on average soil pathogens are costing growers. 28:50 Boom. What is the number? Well, it, well, one, it depends on the pathogen. Two, it depends on the field. 28:56 Three depends on the sublimate. Okay. We have to take all of those, uh, fact all those things into, uh, you know, into account. 29:04 So for things like frogeye leaf spot, our average is 12 bushels on things like, uh, red crown rod, our average is 29:11 11. Now that's, if they have it, hang on, I wanna throw it out there. If they have it. If they have it. 29:15 So there's maybe half, okay, let's use frogeye leaf spot. Let's say wherever you what geography? 29:21 That, where, where is that? Somewhere in Ohio. I don't know. Just tell me where. Just across the, the I states 29:26 The entire, I states, okay. How, how mu how many of my, how many of us have it? Is it on half the acres? 29:33 Yeah, it depends on the pathogen. Fusarium is more than half, uh, red Crown rod is about 30%. Um, sudden death syndrome is about 40%. 29:42 Okay. So 30 to 50% of the acres have it. And then once you then say, if you're, then, then now you're talking 12 bushels, there's eight bushels, 29:51 so there's a 30% chance you're gonna have a 12 bushel yield drag. Yeah. And when I say have it, they've got some level 29:58 of those things within their field. What we're looking at is the risk levels of yield loss. Right. So high risk to medium risk of yield loss. 30:06 And those are the percentages that I'm representing. Okay. It's like, it's like rodent turds in your cereal. There's always a certain parts per million. 30:14 It's just a matter of whether it's really gonna upset your Wheaties. Right. And 30:17 You just really hope you can't see it. Yeah. Well, and one thing, one thing I would add to that Is, but Rebecca, did you think you were coming here 30:25 and talking about rodent turds part per millions? I did. I did not. But if that's where we wanna go, let's go. 30:33 You were saying? Yeah, I was just gonna add to that. We've been talking about single diseases on fields, but typically when we get a test back, there's 30:41 3, 4, 5, 6 different diseases that we're looking at. So it's not just one threat, there's multiple. Yeah. So when you layer things together, 30:50 that's the other one from the average standpoint, uh, it, it might be you only have a 20% chance of this 30:55 and a 48% chance of this. But if thrown together, do they, do they, do they cumulatively end up? Yeah. 31:02 Yep. Yeah, those accumulate, there is definitely a cumulative effect of low bio fertility, multiple disease pathogens that 31:11 that can impact what that yield loss is going to be. I mean, it could be as much as a hundred bushels on corn if you have the right 31:19 conditions and, and if everything expresses the way that it's supposed to. So expression is a, is a key part of that too. 31:27 What we lay out is here's what's in your field, here are the risks. Now this is what we recommend that you do about 31:34 that in order to mitigate. Yeah. And so, by the way, the person that's listening to this says, well, I'll just go ahead 31:39 and just put out a whole Rebecca said biologicals and then fungicide. What are my other options, uh, Rebecca to, to address these? 31:47 'cause somebody might be saying, well, I don't even need to bother the test. I'm just gonna put a whole bunch of biologicals, 31:51 a whole bunch of fungicide out, and that'll take care of it. What's your recommendation? 31:56 Well, you'd wanna, you'd wanna pick the right ones as much as you could, right? But this can even be selecting the right seed trait. 32:02 So maybe you decide to plant a different crop altogether that's not susceptible to that disease, 32:07 depending on the situation. Got it. All right. What else do need to know? We asked the question, are soil 32:13 pathogens robbing you of yield? And then I said, do you know? Well, the answer resoundingly is, is everybody here say yes? 32:18 Soil pathogens are robbing everybody of yield. Everybody listening to this probably is losing, uh, to soil pathogen. 32:23 Yes, 100%, yes. That, uh, there are many soil, uh, soil pathogens that are being undermanaged today 32:32 because the growers are not aware. There are about half to three quarters of the fields that are out there that are being undermanaged on bio 32:40 fertility, simply because they don't know. And so, you know, my point is why experiment with really expensive, you know, with, uh, 32:48 with expensive stuff, place it in the right areas where you're gonna get that ROI, Especially when you're dealing with commodity prices 32:55 where they are every dollar counts. But yeah, so I think precision placement and this, this also ties right into Rebecca, doesn't it? 33:02 Environmentally, let's not just be flinging stuff every which way from the standpoint of the dollars and cents of the economic and the environmental reasons. 33:10 You would think now is the time you want to do the testing and then absolutely have a prescriptive approach 33:15 to mitigation. A hundred percent. This is, you know, it's available now, guys, soil test in the fall, 33:23 typically this is not a new behavior. This can go together with your normal nutrient testing, get the pathogen, get the bio fertility. 33:31 You know, you hear, oh, that snake oil, when we're talking about biologicals a lot still to this minute, guys are saying that, 33:39 well now you can actually get a bio fertility test, pathogen pressure test and select the biologicals 33:46 that are actually gonna work on your fields. And we've never been able to do that before. And I just don't know why you wouldn't use a test like this 33:55 to select the products you're going to use. I'm gonna leave it right there. I asked the question at the beginning, our soil pathogen robbing you of yield. 34:04 Mike t Tweety says, yes, absolutely. Rebecca ETT says, yes, absolutely. I said, do you know, we think that a lot 34:09 of people don't know, but they could. And that's why they're tuning in here to listen to Extreme Edge, kind in the curve. 34:13 If you've enjoyed this, share it with somebody that can benefit from it. Remember, we've created hundreds and hundreds 34:17 of these podcasts called Cutting the Curve. Also hundreds of videos done on site at the guy's farm. Sometimes they just shoot it right there. 34:23 Sometimes I'm with them at things like their field days. You can learn a lot from us, uh, you know, from these guys. 34:28 And I really am glad you're here. Also, if you become a member for $750 a year, you can join us on a monthly webinar. 34:34 You can also watch the whole library of webinars. You also for seven $50 a year, get exclusive offers from some of our business partners. 34:40 Like for instance, nature's. That's right. I just talked about Nature's the Fertility company. That's right. They paid your way 34:47 to Commodity Classic the last two years, if you remember. And then also you get direct access to the guys. 34:51 You can call up guys like Kelly and say, Hey, I need to learn a bit more about this. And you also get the data at the end 34:57 of the year from all the trials they're doing. That's right. For just $700 a year as an Extreme Ag member. Till next time, think about being a member. 35:03 Thanks for watching us, Rebecca. You're awesome. Mike Tweedy with Pattern Ag. Thank you for being here, Rebecca 35:08 with Integrated Ag Solutions. Thanks for being here. Thank you. Thanks. You bet. You're awesome. 35:14 So next time, thanks for being here. I'm Damien Mason and this is Extreme Ag Cutting the Curve. That's a wrap for this episode of Cutting the Curve. 35:21 Make sure to check out Extreme Ag Farm for more great content to help you squeeze more profit out of your farming operation. 35:28 Cutting the curve is brought to you by Simon Innovations. Don't let your sprayer's limitations hold you back. 35:34 Visit simon innovations.com and upgrade your sprayer's capabilities. Now.