Farming Podcast | Outside-The-Box Fertility Tactics | XtremeAg

00:00 Thinking outside of the box with your fertility program, we are talking about changing a whole bunch of stuff. 00:00:05 And do you know the hardest thing to change how you think? That's this episode of extreme Ag Cutting the Curve. 00:00:11 It's extreme ag cutting the curve podcast, cutting your learning curve, and improving your farming operation every week. 00:00:18 This episode of The Cutting the Curve podcast is brought to you by BASF, creating innovation 00:00:23 to help farmers do the biggest job honor. And now let's get ready to learn with your host, Damien Mason. 00:00:32 Hey there. Welcome to another fantastic episode of Extreme Ask. Cutting the Curve. Got a great one for you in this episode 00:00:36 because I've got two great guests. They're both Texas guys. One of 'em is Tommy Roach 00:00:40 with Nature's Nature's awesome business partner of ours here. He's been in our grainery on our Grainery show. 00:00:44 He is always found at Commodity Classic. I'm in the booth with, uh, panels every year at Commodity Classic. 00:00:50 And also he's always here online to share new thoughts with you. He's a product development guy. He is an agronomy guy. 00:00:55 And the more important thing is he's an outside the box thinking guy. And that's why he brought on Texas Farmer Todd Kimball. 00:01:01 Todd is going to talk about some things that he is changing up in his fertility program. Hey, I can't afford to change right now. 00:01:08 Low commodity prices you're talking about, put a little squeeze right now, is when you have to change. And you know what? There's gonna be environmental pressure 00:01:14 on you no matter where you are. There's gonna be regulatory pressure on you no matter where you are. 00:01:18 You're gonna have to change. You're gonna have a nutrient plan moving forward. You're gonna have more eyes upon what you do. 00:01:24 Unfortunately, you have to make these changes even if you don't want to. Fortunately, we're here to help. 00:01:30 That's what we're here to talk about. Tommy Ro you proposed this topic. I like it outside the box thinking. 00:01:36 Um, I think it's a big deal. I I read a regenerative, uh, agriculture book and, uh, one of the famous, uh, quotes that I loved 00:01:42 so much was, you wanna make small changes, adjust your practices, you wanna make major changes, adjust how you think. 00:01:49 It's all right here between your ears. You're big on pushing that outside the box fertility practices. 00:01:57 What's your first thing you're gonna tell me and everybody listening to this show? You wanna think outside the box? Do this. 00:02:03 People think I'm probably a, a broken record by now. 'cause I always talk about usually something dealing with potassium. 00:02:12 Maybe something to do with micros. Uh, maybe something to do about foliar feeding, uh, spoon feeding. 00:02:22 I've had more discussion in the last year with people like Temple, which I hate to say, or Chad, which I hate to say, 00:02:30 but we are now moving past the common thought and now we're moving on to things like magnesium and calcium. 00:02:40 And Kelly's been on a calcium kick for two or three years now, but that's kind where this outside the box thinking needs to go. 00:02:51 Todd, we still have a whole bunch of people and I should say, okay, just real quickly, by means of introduction, you're an extreme ag guy, rather new. 00:02:58 Uh, you were at Matt Miles Field Day in June. You've been on a few episodes. We recorded an episode about your, uh, extreme weather. 00:03:05 You almost lost a, a crop to drought even though it was one of the wettest years on record because it was a matter 00:03:10 of when the water came. Uh, you're doing a cool thing. You're experimenting with sesame producing sesame. Yes, I'm talking about sesame, like the seeds that go on top 00:03:18 of a all beef patty. Pickled sauce lurch. Anyway, the old Big Mac Seeds, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun. Yes, 00:03:24 That's exactly it. See, you're old enough to remember the old Big Mac commercials also. 00:03:27 Anyway, you're doing that and you're doing some cool stuff. You've been on a few of these recordings here. 00:03:31 We're talking about this you farm in, what's it called? Hut, Hutchinson, Texas. No, central Texas. Itasca. So 00:03:38 ATAs at Atca, I get my towns confused. Itasca, how far from Dallas? About an hour. South Dallas, Fort Worth. All 00:03:44 Right. Um, outside the box, fertility, we threw this topic at you and you're doing some of this. 00:03:49 Tommy advised you on some things. What are you doing that changed it up? I'm assuming some of it scared you a little bit, 00:03:55 but it's probably worked out. Yeah, you know, he opened my eyes back up to foliar feeding, and not just on cotton, but on corn 00:04:04 and wheat and something we messed with, I don't know, 25 years ago and didn't really know what we were doing and kind of decided that it maybe didn't work. 00:04:14 We were better off putting our, uh, reallocating our dollars back into just regular, you know, your macros, mp, K, mp, and K. 00:04:23 And you know, I've gotten away from that. And now after studying and being with Extreme, like all the guys only are, I mean, 00:04:32 they're reallocating their dollars from macros to micros in my opinion, from that's me from the outside looking in, being the new guy. 00:04:40 And, uh, they're quite successful. So I know there's something to it and uh, we just have to be more open-minded about it. 00:04:47 How many of you, um, sometimes you're like, you're screaming from the mountaintops and like you said, sometimes you sound like a broken record. 00:04:52 And I know that's an old statement to the young person. It's like, what the hell's a record? But, uh, yeah, What's a Vinyl? Yeah, 00:04:57 but here's the thing. There are still a significant amount of producers in agriculture 00:05:04 that they cannot get it out of their head. Throw more nitrogen. N-P-K-N-P-K. And, and the thing is of all times, I mean, 00:05:14 even if you don't want to like say, okay, you're doing this because you're not informed enough, you're doing this 00:05:18 'cause uh, you know, you, you resist change. You're doing this at this point to your economic detriment, maybe to your soil's detriment, 00:05:25 maybe to your crop's detriment. But for surely to, God, when you were on another recording I did with you, you've cited some numbers about like UAN 00:05:33 and how expensive it is compared to just one year ago. If you wanna throw some of that there, if you can't change now with the envir, 00:05:38 with the economic pressure that you're up against, sorry to say it, but you deserve to have a, you deserve to have a, 00:05:45 a challenging farm, uh, uh, balance sheet if you're not willing to change right now with the pressure that you're under. 00:05:52 Well, and I threw all those figures away. Oh, no, I still have 'em right here on my desk. But compared to, um, say four, four years, three, 00:06:02 four years ago, of course we all know what the corn market is, it's down 2%. But if you look at nitrogen, which could be ammonia, UAN 00:06:12 urea, they're all at least 100% more expensive now than they were three-ish years ago. 00:06:21 Same thing with phosphates. I mean, everybody right now, as soon as they get corn crop out, they're thinking they have 00:06:28 to go put out broadcast map or dap. And that's just ridiculous. And those numbers are, you know, 00:06:38 they're about a hundred percent more expensive right now than they were two, three years ago. And what's that phosphate gonna do over time, you know, 00:06:49 between now and next spring probably gonna get tied up. What's it gonna do between now and when said corn crop actually needs it, which you 00:07:00 is about 75% of the phosphate is needed after tassel. Yeah. So whatever you're putting out now, do you really think it's gonna be around next July? 00:07:13 Probably not. Yeah. And so you say that, you said that in a prior recording, and I think we should say it in almost every recording, 00:07:19 Todd, no offense, but humans don't like change. And I think that farmers are worse than most humans when it comes to making changes. 00:07:30 And there's a great example. Yeah, we get the combine's done, you got some dry weather, you go out and apply phosphorus. 00:07:37 No, no. It's, it, you're, you're, you're putting money out there that, uh, won't even be around, uh, nine months from now. 00:07:45 And if you looked at that with any other investment, well, that's what we do. Okay? Take that a hundred dollars in your wallet right now 00:07:51 and give it to me and I'll give you back 25 of it in July. Well, what about the rest of it? Oh, 00:07:55 I'm just gonna, it's just gonna go away. Nobody would make that deal, but that's what they're doing. My ratios could be off. 00:08:01 Yeah, my ratios could be off. But anyway, No, I mean, I, I I, I think the market currently is gonna force people 00:08:08 to not put that broadcast application out this time of year in the, or in the fall, uh, or even down here where they, 00:08:14 they do in the winter sometimes, but with the price of dry phosphates, uh, it is just not happening this year. 00:08:22 Like it, like it has in the past. And I maybe this will force people to be more open-minded and look at these other ways. 00:08:29 I've already kind of transitioned into that, uh, a couple years back. Uh, I mean, my dollars are much more well spent in the row 00:08:38 or beside the row during the rowing season or at planting. Uh, and yes, you're absolutely right. 00:08:44 We are the most closed-minded, uh, probably the, the most closed-minded culture in the country. Maybe, I don't know. I'd have to really dive into that, but, 00:08:55 but you're absolutely right about farmers in general. Well, and it's, I sound like I was being critical and I am a little bit, it's 00:09:03 because generally Tommy, we talk about outside the box fertility thinking historically, it hasn't harmed you 00:09:13 to do things the same way we used to do them. No. And there's the neighbor pressure when the neighbors are 00:09:20 doing it, you're supposed to do it. Then there's the landlord pressure. Well, why aren't you putting dry fertility on fall? 00:09:25 That's what Elmer did. And you know, Elmer was my husband, and that's what dad did. There's that pressure, 00:09:31 and then there's the fact that it's usually been inexpensive until the last few years. 00:09:36 It was usually inexpensive insurance. Am I right? I mean, granted, I don't, I I don't do this every day like Todd does. 00:09:42 No, I, you're absolutely right. So let's take this one step further and, you know, talking about outside the box thinking. 00:09:50 So I've been talking about how to take in-season fertility to another level for the last five years. 00:09:58 I'm a, everybody knows this that listens to these podcasts or have seen us at Commodity Classic or wherever. 00:10:06 I'm a big proponent of wide drop, and I don't think, there's not a lot of people that think about putting any kind 00:10:18 of phosphorus in, in a wide drop when they're already throw throwing out some nitrogen because that, if you did that, 00:10:24 or if you do that, what it does is it is it gets you closer to that, uh, that demand, that peak, 00:10:33 peak demand after tassel that we know is gonna happen. I mean, everybody's seen, I could reach right over there and grab the chart. 00:10:42 Mm-hmm. But everybody's seen the chart that we've talked about. And you look at when demand is based on growth stage, 00:10:51 there is a huge demand for phosphorus late when we're talking about corn. And there's some studies going on right now, some 00:11:00 with another company that I won't mention. But what, what's coming outta these studies about in-season nutrient testing, and this is year five 00:11:13 of this study they've been doing, and what they're showing is that, okay, you take tissue sample and look at, say, zinc, 00:11:25 and it might say that, uh, that you're not deficient in zinc, but there's a new method that's coming out, uh, 00:11:35 about looking at, at a, in a, in a adjusted, uh, matrix. Because when you see these ratio 00:11:43 or see these ranges, you have a low and a high. And if you just say, oh, I'm, I'm good. Well, you may be really close to being on the low side. 00:11:54 And so they're doing, they're looking at it in adjusted matrix now. And it, I'm not going to say 00:12:03 that this year's gonna be any different, but if you look at it in this new term, uh, you're looking at roughly 65% 00:12:14 of all tissue samples across the whole US are deficient in zinc. And we all know what zinc helps to, to do, 00:12:24 especially later in corn crop. It, it promotes starch buildup, which leads to more test weight. 00:12:32 So I think people are missing the boat, number one, putting out enough zinc. I mean, I talked, I talked to Chad, 00:12:40 he already called me this morning, By The way. Talk about, I'm this out real quickly. 00:12:45 What I'm gonna put this out real quickly to Todd, Chad Henderson, our extreme Ag Henderson has like one of those direct lines like, like it's almost an intercom 00:12:54 between him and Tommy Roach. It is like a bat line, you know, when the phone lights up red, uh, 00:13:01 that's the way it is with Chad. All right, so start me again. You said farmers are missing the boat on sulfur. Boom, how 00:13:10 Zinc, zinc and sulfur too. But go sulfur. This conversation with Chad, we're not putting out enough zinc 00:13:17 when you think you're at say, and how a lot of people deal with zinc. So put it in there, you know, put 10, 20 pounds in a, 00:13:26 in a dry broadcast application of, you know, dry zinc sulfate. That's not gonna cut it 00:13:32 because number one, you're putting out only 10 to 20 pounds of a zinc product, but then it's broadcast over an acre. 00:13:40 So you may have one granule in a square foot, but that, that, that plant's gonna even get so outside the box thinking number one, 00:13:49 put on more zinc when you think you, when you think you've put on enough. But a lot of people are adjusting. 00:13:56 It's a micro, a lot of people are adjusting to spoon feeding more zinc through foliar applications during the season. 00:14:04 And we're not talking about making additional applications, just putting it into, when you're already taking, 00:14:12 taking advantage of a simple task. So like a herbicide pass or whenever herb Herbicide pass, fungicide pass wide drop 00:14:20 pass, put in a little bit. Heck, everybody's got a drone nowadays. And you think not everybody has a drone, 00:14:25 but uh, you think that at that point you are saying micros like zinc. And also maybe that's when we can also even put some 00:14:33 of the phosphorus in because that's when it needs it in, uh, veg at reproductive stage. 00:14:38 Zinc, if I'm running fungicide, I'm putting in ncate every day of the week. Alright, Outside now you Get, you get down south like 00:14:48 where Todd's at, where you typically don't have to run fungicide and it gets hot and it gets humid. You basically have to have all that done even 00:14:58 before you get to tassel just because plant, plant stress, it, it just not gonna, it's just trying to survive much less, 00:15:07 taking up any more nutrition. All right. Outside the box, thinking for Todd Kimbrel, did you add what, what, what, 00:15:16 tell me your evolution was zinc. Was, was it micros? What was it? He's talking zinc and sulfur outside the box thinking, 00:15:22 what'd you do in the last year or two since you connected with this guy from, uh, nature's and what'd you start doing that was outside the box 00:15:28 that your neighbors, your dad or somebody said, what the hell are you doing? Uh, no, we've never done zinc 00:15:34 foliar until I got with Tommy. Uh, we actually, we've always done a lot of zinc in furrow, like at planting time, specifically on corn. 00:15:43 I wasn't really doing it on cotton, but now I will on cotton. Uh, but like copper and, and boron 00:15:50 and all that stuff, Foer is something we've never really, I don't know. And it is just never really did it. 00:15:58 I used to put out a lot of manure in the past and assume that I was good because of that, but we have to rethink the way we're doing all this 00:16:05 and be more efficient and getting the nutrients where they need to go. Uh, I, I know we're leaving a ton on the table 00:16:11 because we're not, we're not being more the most efficient than we could be. Right. So what, what was your first big move? 00:16:20 Zinc and micros and putting it out there, like you said, next to the plant. Yeah. And then, and then potassium acetate 00:16:26 with Tommy too was a big one that I know is working. He, he gets a little bit of a hard time. I've heard it that he's the potassium acetate 00:16:34 broken record also. Is it? I know. Is it, is it warranted? No, I'm not talking about the criticism is the potassium is 00:16:40 being over to the top on potassium acetate warranted Todd. I would say yes, I'm completely on board with that. 00:16:47 You've made your money off of the investment. Yes. Uh, we, we've always seen big, uh, potassium deficiencies at the reproductive 00:16:56 stage, specifically on corn. Uh, not even talking about cotton, cotton's an obvious one, but on corn especially. 00:17:03 And, uh, I think that'll be part of our program going forward. What, um, what do you think, Tommy? 00:17:11 The first step we say outside the box. First off, you gotta change the way you're thinking and you gotta get away from just concentrating on bulk 00:17:17 amounts of macros, especially at the wrong time. It seems to me that's the easiest adjust. It's, it's the easiest, it's the biggest payback, 00:17:26 probably the hardest adjustment because it's different from what you've always done or what your dad did 00:17:29 or whatever. Am I right? So I think a lot Todd says yes, that's the easiest, that's the biggest, the easiest big payback is just to get off the macro 00:17:41 habit and start looking at this. That's the biggest payback, the fastest payback. It's also the hardest one to make because it's different. 00:17:49 You guys are both nodding your head to the people that are driving equip equipment. Well, so everybody, Nobody hear you nod your head. 00:17:53 Everybody to the detriment puts on, they're gonna take care of nitrogen. They're gonna take care of it in too. Applying too much. 00:18:01 Everybody is typically gonna take care of their phosphate needs. Potassium on the other hand, 00:18:10 I was just sitting here looking at, um, some soil tests out in Nebraska and, and they all said that soil tests were high to very high 00:18:23 on, on contained K. Uh, you're dealing with, you know, 4,600 pounds typically of calcium, which nobody hardly ever thinks about. 00:18:37 Calcium past pre-plant and mag is a whole nother issue. Um, we're gonna be doing a lot of work with Temple Chad. 00:18:48 We threw some mag out on Todd's last year. We're going to put it in a different spot this year. But Temple is seeing, you know, roughly 10, uh, 00:18:58 10 bushel an acre bump. And where we fed magnesium acetate every time he went across the field, which is only, 00:19:07 you know, three or four times. So we're not talking about every week. Um, it doesn't take much to move the needle. 00:19:15 You just have to focus on right nutrient at the right time. And back to this outside the box, thinking 00:19:25 if people are putting on too much nitrogen, we need to um, we need to make better utilization of what we're applying. 00:19:34 And there's no nutrients that enhance nitrogen utilization. Todd's talked about some of 'em already. 00:19:44 Boron, copper, we've talked about potassium sulfur's another one. So there's Molly, 00:19:50 I don't don't even wanna say the, whatever it's called. Our Friend Mike s can you say that our friend Mike Evans, 00:19:58 who works up there with Kelly Garrett in Iowa is a brilliant guy. He just can't say the word molybdenum. Yeah. 00:20:04 Uh, I I I I'm a good talker. Molybdenum, molybdenum Mo molybdenum. Yeah. Anyway, there's no nutrients that enhance utilization 00:20:15 and we've just gotta target the right ones at the right time to make this whole thing go. 00:20:21 Todd, gimme your outside the box practices that you're doing right now that five years ago would've seemed crazy and now you're doing it 00:20:26 and you're like, man, everybody should, everybody should experiment this, do it. Uh, maybe a little more than five years. 00:20:32 But why dropping now? Why dropping nitrogen was always the staple. Maybe with sulfur, that's kind of a generic move, 00:20:40 but now my eyes are open to these other micronutrients and I've talked to Tommy about it. Even macros, even throwing some Tommy kinda opened my eyes 00:20:50 to, hey, throw some, throw some phosphate in there with the wide drop and try it. And it's just something we never really tried 00:20:56 before. So would this one Pass would, depending on the crop, are you using a wide drop on one pass or two pass? 00:21:01 Well, like this year it was only one pass 'cause and we barely got that done 'cause it was so wet. So, you know, one, maybe two is what I would say. 00:21:10 Alright. So you said you, you, you got on this train more than five years ago, but uh, the stuff that you've been doing that a lot 00:21:16 of people aren't and you think they could make these adjustments first is wide dropping both micros and macros and, and they're gonna say, well, I don't have a wide drop. 00:21:26 What do you tell 'em? Uh, it's easy. I mean obviously you can go buy 'em. There's multiple companies that have 'em now, 00:21:34 but I mean, some people even make their home. I mean, it's, It's worth the investment. 00:21:39 Yeah, absolutely. After you Get past a few, a few hundred acres, is the wide drop, uh, a add-on paid for itself? 00:21:46 Oh, easily. Easily. And I mean, they go onto the sprayer that you probably already have in the barn. 00:21:53 They're much, much less than going out and buying additional, uh, applicator. So financially wise, the, the actual equipment aspect 00:22:01 of the Y drops is a no brainer. Yep. Okay. Y dropping micros and macros, you only, and it's not like you're doing it every, every other day. 00:22:09 You did it one only once in the whole season. What's the next thing that's, uh, outside the box thinking that you recommend, 00:22:17 Man, I Don't know. Time mentioned sulfur and zinc and all that. Watch micro. Which micro did you start 00:22:22 concentrating on that moved the needle? You know, sulfur. Like I said, I almost feel like sulfur's generic. 00:22:29 'cause I mean, everybody's always added sulfur with their, with their UAN in the past. 00:22:34 But I think adding potassium acetate for us is gonna be the biggest, the biggest game changer. Okay. The micros. Yes. 00:22:44 I I think there's, I think there's a lot to the micros how to figure out, to blend and match exactly my needs. 00:22:50 I'm still working on that. But I think the potassium acetates a no brainer. Tommy, he said why dropping was, well, I would have 00:22:58 to potassium acetate and I would have to agree with the, uh, potassium acetate aspect. 00:23:04 I mean, I've been preaching that for 12 years now. Um, I think there's a lot of people moving toward, um, and, and, and this goes in cycles. 00:23:15 I mean, for two or three years it was boron. Yep. Seems like now it's, um, there's a lot of focus on Molly lending them. 00:23:24 Yeah. And it doesn't take a lot. I mean, good grief, uh, couple ounces saying the furrow application 00:23:31 or, uh, couple ounces fo year late later in the season when, when we're trying to take advantage of, of that nitrogen component. 00:23:43 'cause you gotta have Molly, you gotta have potassium to help that nitrogen engine run. Got it. Um, the person that's sitting here saying, 00:23:53 all right, um, I wanna do this, the extreme ag followers are obviously very open-minded, more progressive in how they think. 00:24:01 What are you gonna tell 'em? Start, start 'em down the road here. They're probably already knowing about potassium acetate. 00:24:07 'cause they've seen you on here. They already know about spoon feeding. What's the next thing to do? I think if it were me 00:24:12 and I was listening to this, I would almost eliminate, I would eliminate almost all fall application if I were the farmer. 00:24:19 Todd's nodding in his head. Is that the, is that the first step? I think so. I think that's easy. I I've already done it. 00:24:26 I, I mean, I think that's a real easy move. Now, culturally, it's gonna be hard for a lot of guys that have always done it like we talked about earlier. 00:24:33 But I really think that's an easy move going forward. And it also pay pays back. There's Guys on extreme that, that have done this for years and, 00:24:43 and everybody so out, out in the farm community, everybody worries about their P levels in the soil, the residual p So if you don't put this out, 00:24:52 you're depleting your p and then, you know, at some point you're gonna run into a spot where you're, you're, you know, really bad shape 00:24:59 and have to put out a lot. But I've looked at the data of the guys on extreme. The other guys, they're, 00:25:05 they're not losing any ground on their p they're in soil P and and they're all telling me they're gaining some. 00:25:11 So, you know, you shoot the fall applied theory completely out the window if that's going on. 00:25:17 And I think it is. So that's why I keep saying it's a no brainer. It's all about, and Kelly talks about, you know, 00:25:27 about nutrient balance all the time. I, I do too. But once you, once you go down the road of trying to get things in balance, it's amazing. 00:25:38 And it's like you're talking about Todd, it's amazing. What, what happens that you, you wouldn't assume would happen 00:25:46 from your soil microbiology. It makes up for a lot of mistakes that we do. Uh, maybe a lot of things we don't do, 00:25:55 but getting things back into balance just elevates soil biology so much. I want to, uh, I wanna make my second 00:26:07 move, you said wide drop. Okay. Eliminate fall fertility. Um, adding wide drops into the mix, uh, 00:26:13 concentrating potassium acetate. And then you said on the micros, it's almost like there's a micro of the month, uh, club. 00:26:20 Um, when I first started working with the extreme ag, it was all about boron. And we, we, you know, we talked to Chad who loved boron 00:26:26 and sulfur, zinc, et cetera. And I think, uh, if I were a farmer, if I was gonna start doing the outside the box stuff, I, 00:26:33 I would assume that I've overdone NP and K-N-N-P-S I'd say. And then I would start looking at those micros for sure. 00:26:41 Um, when are they needed? Is it, is it really, like, is it truly that they should just be in every mix? 00:26:46 I mean, because certainly, or, or do I need to not even worry about those until late season? 00:26:50 When do I need the micros? When do I focus on those? Uh, well, if we talk about corn, uh, you're gonna need you iron and manganese, 00:27:01 especially iron more up toward the front. I mean, again, go back to the, to the, uh, chart. And you have a huge iron demand. 00:27:12 Now, when I say huge, it's not like we're talking about NPK and sulfur, I mean huge in relative terms, 00:27:20 but iron up front, manganese kind of spread out across the season. Little bit of zinc up front. 00:27:29 A whole lot of zinc in the back. Uh, little bit of boron in the front, boron in the back. I mean, so I guess best approach, 00:27:40 everybody's gonna kill weeds, put in a micro pack in action. Let's back up. Everybody's gonna plant a crop. 00:27:48 That's the only time you're guaranteed to go across the field. Todd can attest to this. 00:27:54 If he gets in the field and plants his crop, he may not get back through there again because it may be too wet, it may be too dry 00:28:01 and that things are burned up. So he's not gonna get to harvest, put in a micro pack on the planter and then you're gonna kill weeds, 00:28:11 put in a micro pack when you're killing weeds. Every, a lot of the corn belt is gonna run fungicide maybe twice, 00:28:22 put in a micro pack. It doesn't cost you hardly anything. Extra small doses, spoonfeeding, 00:28:32 more balanced, more efficient. Todd's nodding in his head. Big one though, that we talked about before. 00:28:37 Hit the record button in a, uh, email and we're setting this up. Was your adjustment to foliar this was a, this was a bit 00:28:43 of a adjustment for you, right? Yeah, I mean, it's just something we're not accustomed to. It's, it's, it's breaking our old, you know, 00:28:52 our old routine I guess, of not using it. So yeah. That, that's a little bit of a culture shock and a little bit of adjustment. 00:28:59 But I know he is right. Meaning You're, and I'll tell, I'll tell you're Moving into more of a foliar feed situation, right? 00:29:06 Yes. Yeah. And I, I can tell you why people think that. All right, so when you're running herbicide, pass the crop, the plant, it's not very big. 00:29:17 I mean, it's only yay, yay big. And they're, they're not, they're missing the boat. They're, they're seeing visually how big the plant is, 00:29:26 how much barren space there is than they're thinking, well it's, you know, it's not gonna do any good. I'm gonna get more on the bare and sole than I am the plant. 00:29:35 Yep. But what you have to do is put your head inside that plant because you gotta keep that plant running. And if you're feeding it herbicide, in this case, you, 00:29:47 you just put an awful taste in that plant's mouth and it's going, it's, it wants to shut down for a day or two and figure out how to get rid of that bad taste. 00:29:57 Well, you put, you put nutrition in the spray san mm-hmm. You're able to keep that plant running 00:30:04 at the same time it's trying to metabolize that chemistry that you just fed it. 00:30:09 So you have to Right. Have change how you think about Things. So it's not even necessarily just about 00:30:14 space net your fertility spend. A guy like Todd didn't wanna do foliar feeding and now the foliar feeding has the benefit 00:30:20 of it spreads out the spend, it puts the nutrient out there and the plant needs it. And also it gets it more successfully 00:30:26 past a herbicide stress. Is that right Todd? Yes. Because every day, every day the plant stops is a day that you, 00:30:39 I feel bad that Tommy said that you might not be able to get in your fields after you plant it. Um, if there's some farm ground up here by me in Indiana, 00:30:46 would you like to just move up here? I mean, yeah, we don't have these problems. I mean, you know, maybe that, maybe it's just be a 00:30:51 subdivision down there where you live, Todd. It might be a little easier up here for you. I'm sure it would. It's it is tough. I, we've made really 00:30:59 Good, I grew up there. I know We, we had really good, I mean we had a record corn yield and it's still gonna be tough here. 00:31:08 All right, last thought on outside the box thinking, um, or, uh, on your fertility, 00:31:12 is there any last word that you got Todd? Did you have to go through a learning curve? Did you lose? 'cause that's the one thing. We'll, definitely it. 00:31:19 Nothing takes someone, remember a lot of folks, alright, I'll try it. And then they make it so that their trial fails 00:31:27 so they can defend what they've always done. You tried it, did you try it to actually make it work? And then also did it give you, 00:31:36 did it give you a reward immediately? Yeah. So if you're my old saying, I think I said on the last one, if you plan to fail, 00:31:46 then you know what, you're probably going to fail. So same thing goes with a trial. If you want it to fail, you can make it fail. No. 00:31:52 And that's not a, in my opinion, that's not even a trial. But that's, that's probably for another day. 00:31:58 Yes, we saw positive results. We're waiting on our big cotton plot. We had a big cotton plot with Tommy 00:32:03 and waiting on all the gen results and to get all the data back on that. But, but yes, I, I think the investment, 00:32:10 the return on investment is definitely there. And on your cotton plot, you did a bunch of these north outside the box sort of fertility things, wide dropping. 00:32:18 Yes. Foliar feeding, didn't put stuff out in the fall, that kind of thing. Yeah, absolutely. Our, our timing wasn't perfect on some 00:32:25 of the applications, but it was just because it was so wet. I mean, we, on our cotton especially, 00:32:30 we really struggled on our timing of of, of products. We went there in June and uh, in order to get to the pot, you'd had to have a, a canoe. 00:32:41 So, um, always comes down to the economics. Um, nothing we talked about everything we talked about. Are you spending more or less 00:32:47 or the same, Todd, with your new I would changing your practice? I would say I would, I would say about the same. 00:32:53 Yeah. Honestly. But the idea is the dollars you're spending now are giving you a bigger return than they did. 00:33:00 Yep. Uh, we're allocating our dollars more Efficiently. Efficiently, Yeah. 00:33:06 All right. Tommy, what do I need to know? Anything else on the way out the door here about outside the box? 00:33:09 Fertility seem to me that now is the time. A lot of people are making plans now for next year, even though they're not outta the field yet, 00:33:20 but, uh, plan on the small things and try to cut back on these big ticket items like nitrogen and phosphorus. 00:33:27 They just don't, putting 'em out in the fall and putting 'em out at the mounts that they've been accustomed to doing in the, uh, in the, in the 00:33:38 rear in the past. It just doesn't work nowadays. Yeah. Not to mention some, some retailers are gonna not like hearing that 00:33:44 and that's exactly the problem. So some folks are still getting reinforcement. We talked about that in another episode. 00:33:49 Speaking of other episodes, we are hundreds of episodes of cutting the curve that I've recorded with experts like Todd, uh, who's out in the field 00:33:55 and Hammi who covers the whole country are actually all North America. Um, share them, find them. 00:34:00 They're all for free at Extreme Mag Farm. It's like a library of free information to help you farm better. 00:34:04 Also, hundreds of videos that the guys like Todd shoot in factors on social media right now. 00:34:08 You can find it. Go ahead and subscribe. We're on YouTube, we're on Facebook, we're on Twitter and videos like Todd shoots in the field. 00:34:16 Short little snippets to help you farm better ideas, track practices, trials, things they're doing. And you can learn from all of it. 00:34:22 If you wanna take your learning to the next level. You can join Extreme Ag for seven $50. That's for a year. And you get to come to our data conference, which is going 00:34:29 to be held at the end of January. You go on our website and see the signup January 25th and 26th in, uh, Davenport, Iowa. 00:34:36 You should come to this. And if you're a member, you come for free. That's right. There is no admission. And, uh, even your room 00:34:42 and meals be covered for, uh, that if you're a member, you get special offers from friends like Tommy at Nature's, you get to go to Commodity Classic for free. 00:34:48 He's been doing that for last several years. While you're a commodity class, you can come by the nature of the booth and see me. 00:34:53 'cause every year I always, uh, host a couple of panels with guys like Todd with new ideas on how you can make more money 00:34:59 with your investment in agriculture. Till next time, that's, uh, go check out all of our stuff at Extreme Ag Farm 00:35:04 and also subscribe to our YouTube channel. He's Todd Kimbrel. He's Tommy Roach. I'm Damian Mason. Thanks for being here. 00:35:11 That's a wrap for this episode of Cutting the Curve. Make sure to check out Extreme ag.farm for more great content to help you squeeze more profit out 00:35:19 of your farming operation. This episode of The Cutting the Curve podcast is brought to you by BASF, creating innovation 822 00:35:27.415 --> 00:35:29.715