Farming Podcast | Is Fall Fertility Costing You? | XtremeAg

00:00:00 Breaking bad fall fertility habits, you've got some bad habits. It's time to rectify that. 00:00:04 That's what we're covering this episode of Extreme Ag Cutting the Curve. Welcome to extreme Ag Cutting the Curve podcast, 00:00:12 where real farmers share real insights and real results to help you improve your farming operation. And now here's your host, Damien Mason. 00:00:22 Hey there. Welcome to another fantastic episode of extreme Mass Cutting on the curve. Got a great one for you today. 00:00:26 Chad and Temple are joining us from the field. That's right. Both of 'em are in their trucks out in the field. 00:00:31 Uh, and they, uh, they took time outta their busy schedule during harvest and actually planting. 00:00:36 That's what Chad's doing. He is planting right now. We're recording this October 21st, 2025. We're talking about bad fall fertility 00:00:42 habits with Tommy Roach. He's our friend from Nature's and he actually wanted to do this topic. So I'm gonna let you lead off. Why do you wanna cover it? 00:00:50 I think I know why, because there's probably a lot of money being spent on stupid things that are just habitual, not 00:00:56 actually doing what you should do. And then also, how hard are these habits gonna be to break? What are the habits? 00:01:04 So let's get the, uh, the facts outta the way you go to field days. In, uh, August, 00:01:11 people start getting in the field in the corn belt. People start getting in the field in September. And more 00:01:19 and more people have started asking, why, why do I do fall fertility? Why do I sling out that map when here's the fun facts. 00:01:32 If you go back to 2020, corn is 2% less. Price of corn is 2% less than it was in 2020. But yet urea is 75% higher. 00:01:45 UAN is catch this 173% higher ammonia 125% higher. Here's phosphate dap, 117% higher map, 91% higher KCL down 1%. 00:02:05 So why am I slinging dry phosphate in the fall right now when it's probably gonna be tied up or gone in the spring? 00:02:15 Why am I doing it? Well, and that's why, that's why by the way, people ought to think about what they're doing. 00:02:20 It was a, it was probably a bad decision even when it was cheaper because you still didn't get the, 00:02:26 the product wasn't there. Come spring when you need it, let alone in grain fill or reproductive stage when you need it nine months later. 00:02:34 It was a bad decision when the stuff was cheap. I just tried to write down some of that. Almost all of those were more than 100% up 00:02:41 A year. That's correct. 00:02:42.205 --> 00:02:42.405 I can't wait to hear Chad's response to this because he's out there right now. 00:02:49 Strip tilling dry fertility on, Hey Chad, what you got to say about this buddy? Well, you know, it's still Tommy's 00:03:02 And really we're talking about, uh, se you know, separate this broadcast versus strip till. If somebody's strip tilling, great. 00:03:11 I mean, because at least you're ahead of the curve. I mean, I can throw some more fun facts at, at PTI every year. 00:03:19 This is year five of a 10 year study that they've been doing in Pontiac, Illinois. I haven't got the data from this year, 00:03:28 but the last four years of data, if I 100% broadcast DAP and KCL, it shows no benefit over stripping 00:03:43 75% and even 50% of that broadcast amount. So again, it's all about where you place fertility. Uh, stripping is great, but broadcast just 00:03:59 'cause you've been doing it for the last 50 years, 40 years, whatever. It doesn't make sense in today's economics. 00:04:07 Well, it's just, it's, it's the easy button for everybody. That's the problem. Like, I mean, this really, I mean, 00:04:13 I guess it's a good and bad, it's a catch 22 for me to be on this podcast with you guys. 'cause like, you know, all flung fertility, you know, 00:04:23 I mean, use Damien's term, just fling it, you know, that that went away from us. 00:04:28 Even strip toe in the fall went away from us, you know, 25, 27, 28 years ago. So we can't do that anyway. 00:04:36 So we adapted to, you know, putting it on in the spring, and then we were still going out there ahead of the planters 00:04:43 and flinging it all on and, you know, a blow and grow method. You know, in the last 10 years, maybe 15 years, 00:04:51 we've evolved into stop growing the, the acre and start growing the plan. And that's where all this is coming to. 00:04:59 And it's a, you know, you get such a more efficiency out of whatever fertility plan that you do have 00:05:06 by being able to utilize that. You know, you just, the longer you put it out there, the more ahead of that crop that you put it out there, 00:05:14 the longer you're getting a chance to, you know, that, that whatever that fertility is, whether it be, you know, NPK, 00:05:23 you're gonna lose n you're gonna let, um, k tie up. And again, with fos or with potash potassium, 00:05:30 you're gonna do the same thing there too. So, uh, you're, you're allowing a problem to happen and you're allowing that efficiency to like, 00:05:38 get all screwed up in your soil profile. So this is like, whoa, whoa. Wait, wait a minute. We got, think about the one good 00:05:43 thing we are doing by throwing it out in the fall. We're giving time for the salt to get away. Okay? I mean, and, 00:05:53 and I'll give you credit for like, when you strip till and you strip till in the fall, I mean, you can cut back 30% on your fertility out there by putting it in that zone. 00:06:03 Like, hey, look, I mean that, that's great. That's, we, I mean, you found that out. We found that out. That's a, that's a awesome way to do it. 00:06:11 I don't know that if, I mean, I, in my opinion, I what you're doing, Chad, I don't know that it's better in the fall 00:06:19 or in the spring if you're gonna use dry. I, I kind of agree with you. I think it's, I'd be better off 00:06:25 to put it down in the fall if I was going do that. So, So let's talk for a minute on why I do that. Okay. The reason that we run in the fall is 00:06:34 because I feel like in the spring when I can run, one is our type of soil we wanna shank and we're gonna pull up CLOs. 00:06:41 Okay? The next one is, the compaction is so much heavier because you're going to go in some air's too wet. 00:06:47 You know, you're going to go too wet. Yeah. It's just the fact that's what we're gonna do as farmers. Um, and then if it's dry enough to run a strip tail, 00:06:54 heck, it's dry enough to plant. So that's kind of why I run in the fall is 'cause I get it out there. 00:07:01 I got a bed that's drying out and I can get it going. And, but I will tell you this, there's nothing, there's no dry fertility that I won't put out with 00:07:11 that some kind of breakdown additive on it because Tommy's a hundred percent true. It's not there. And we're down now. 00:07:18 When I first started strip tilling, we was at two, 300 pounds. We're down now to a hundred pounds. 00:07:25 And I'll just tell you, last year we was at 50 pound of D 50 pound K mag. Yep. And that was just, that was just 00:07:30 where I was at this year. I don't know how much dap I put out, if any. I may be, I may be, uh, uh, sulfur, 00:07:37 me and Tommy talked about it the other day. We may be sulfur and km mag, uh, because of our soil type. Uh, maybe 20 pound of dap. I, I don't know. 00:07:45 But, but you're, y'all are exactly right. And another thing that me and Tom, Tommy hadn't brought it up 00:07:49 because I thought he was going with a PTI, he hasn't lost, are we three years deep or four years deep on our trial? 00:07:56 Tommy, with a liquid versus dry? We're Four on yours. We're, we're four years deep and it's averaged anywhere from 10 to 20 bushel 00:08:06 Yeah. On a full liquid program. And I just, I'm just not set up yet to make it work, you know? 00:08:13 Uh, but, but it's, it's done that every year. I mean, row to row. And then the year that we went full dry, so you know, me, we did dry, 00:08:22 we did liquid at the same amount of money, and then we did, and then I put dry 00:08:26 and liquid together, which doubled the money, right? It made less than the dry loan or the liquid alone. It made less than those two. 00:08:35 All right. I know We could even go back to, so people are worried about the point in the bank, and I, I hate to go back to 00:08:46 PTI in Illinois, but you know, after year four, yeah, year one it soil levels came down, percentage or so, 00:08:58 but it flat, it plateaued out. And you still got plenty of Nutrien in the bank. I mean, people take trips all the time 00:09:07 and they say, Hey Siri, I need to go to Madison, Alabama. Well, if there's a wreck, it takes, it goes, 00:09:16 takes you a detour. This is no what we're in right now, my 2 cents. It's no different than taking a detour, detour for, 00:09:26 you know, year two, three years, maybe you're not gonna de deplete the bank. I mean, you still got plenty of nutrients out there. 00:09:34 Maybe focus on something like zinc. I mean, not enough. Zinc is being put out there where you can help the phosphorus problem. 00:09:43 I mean, you got, you got lots of things you can focus on rather than trying to keep this phosphate bank going. 00:09:50 Well, I mean, back to what you just said, Tommy, talking about, you know, my dad told me this, you know, he was like, when I first went down this road of, you know, 00:09:58 no dry three years ago, and he was like, you know, and Tommy, I talked to you about this. And we went over it 00:10:03 with a fine tooth comb, went over it with Chad too. And my dad told me, he's like, you're gonna go broke your mine in the soil. 00:10:10 You're, you're crazy. Your soil levels are gonna go down. You're, you've, you've absolutely lost your mind. 00:10:16 Well, our yields went up. Um, I don't show any deficiencies in my plants at all. None whatsoever. Um, 00:10:26 my tissue samples are coming back better than they ever have. Um, the SAP samples are, um, I'm not saying they're perfect, 00:10:33 but they're very good and they're better. And the end of the, well, it don't take much for me and you that 00:10:41 That's a long story. That's a long Story. Anyway, that's a long story. We'll, 00:10:43 we'll do another podcast on, on how the, how that goes. But maybe Mike Evans and Kelly could be on that with us. That would 00:10:49 Be awesome. I Wanna be in on that. Okay. So we'll do that one later. But when you go back and you look at our soil samples, 00:10:56 our soil samples are different now, Tommy, is it, is it because, um, you know, with putting out dry fertility, you know, we are potentially harming a little bit 00:11:09 of our soil health, maybe. I don't know. Is there some other things that I'm doing? Maybe I don't know. 00:11:14 But our soil samples are not coming down. They're actually increasing somewhat. And I'm not sure you know what to attribute that to. 00:11:24 But take for instance, like in in our inherent area, you know, you got guys that we've had to cut back on nitrogen, we had to cut back on phosphorus. 00:11:33 So guys have figured out how to do that. But the fertility companies tell us, you gotta put down 150 to 250 pounds of actual K on your farms every year. 00:11:43 That's how much you're taking off. You know, your, so your, your plants are taking that much off, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. 00:11:50 Well, if you go back and you look at your soil samples and your soil samples are like, okay, well, um, you know, my base saturation on K is an eight. 00:12:01 And you're like, okay, well I'm trying to keep my soil balanced. Like, why is it that I'm putting on all this dry K 00:12:10 when I'm not even using up what I got out there, but I'm putting more and more and more. And now my, like every one 00:12:17 of our base saturations on our farms, I'm somewhere between a seven at the low and a 13 as a high. 00:12:25 And it's because of all the years of me listening to recommendations of fertility companies around here. Because it's like, it's the one thing that, 00:12:34 that is not like, there is no regulation on K here. You can put down a thousand pounds per acre if you would like to. 00:12:43 So it's like they, they, I'm not blaming it on them, but like, it's the one thing that we kind of need and we know it well, we went out there 00:12:51 and we just flung the ever 11 crap out of it. Now our base saturations are high. Let's, let's go back and let's get into that bank again. 00:13:00 I'm, I'm putting on the right type type of potassium that can get into the plant. I'm not putting it in KCL down anymore. 00:13:08 Haven't done it for three years. Not putting any map or dap down. I haven't done it in three years. 00:13:13 Like my levels in my soil are not going down. They're actually staying stable or increasing somewhat. So Tommy, can you explain that to me? 00:13:24 It's all about nutrient balance and soul health. I mean, soul health is, I think more and more people are starting to, to catch on 00:13:33 with this soul health thing. Um, you know, It's about time, by the way. It's about time. It's about time. 00:13:39 It's, it's year 2025 and people are starting to catch on with soul health. It's the most valuable asset you own 00:13:46 and your livelihood depends on it. And now we're finally thinking that maybe we should pay attention to this. 00:13:52 I mean, it's not just about the easy button anymore. I mean, it's easy to go sling drive fertilizer. What, what retail always tells you to do, you know, 00:14:00 200 pounds, a hundred pounds, whatever it is. But that's the easy button. I mean, we can even, we could spend a whole nother two 00:14:08 podcasts on the whole topic of when does a plant need phosphorus? I mean, good grief, you putting out phos 00:14:18 Another, isn't it, 70% of it is happens at the reproductive stage and we're putting it out there. 00:14:24 A we're putting it out there four months before, six months before germination. And you 00:14:29 Need it, it's after tassel and you think what you're doing now, it's it's still gonna be hanging around in in July. 00:14:35 Come on. Yeah. Everybody hanging around three Julys from now. Exactly. So I, I wanna go back 00:14:41 to the breaking the bad fall fertility habits. First off, I think, uh, it's kind of like, uh, any, any addiction. 00:14:46 The first, the first uh, step is admitting you have a problem. I think this habit is widespread. 00:14:53 I have heard when Temple said, my father said, oh, you're gonna screw up. You're gonna lose your money. You're gonna go bankrupt. 00:14:58 You're gonna mine the soil. I've been hearing mine, the soil talk since I was a kid. It was always the story. Of course they're going 00:15:04 to outbid us for cash rent 'cause they're gonna mine that farm. We're not gonna put any fertilizer out. 00:15:08 So that becomes ingrained. If you want to keep the farm, you've gotta make sure that they see that you're putting on dry fertility 00:15:14 because it proves you're not mining the soil. I do believe that there's a reason for that. It's almost like the neighbor, the, 00:15:19 the neighborhood talk is if you're not, if they're not flinging out fall fertility, they're mining it and then all 00:15:25 of a sudden you get this reputation. I think that's one reason the habit exists. Am I right? I I would agree. You, you, you know, we all think 00:15:35 that the neighboring farmer that wins the bid is gonna win. Is is going to, he's mining the crap outta the soil there. 00:15:43 There's no doubt about that. And, and there is cases where that happens and you see like, and then you then, uh, you know, 00:15:50 'cause it's never our fault, right? As, as an individual farmer, then you're like, oh, yep, he's playing the insurance game. 00:15:56 Oh, he's mine soul. He's my, he's doing this. He's the one that maybe he's just figured it out. Maybe he's doing a better job. 00:16:02 Have we ever thought about that? We never thought about that. Um, I'm gonna throw out all the reasons 00:16:07 why I think the habit exists. And I want you guys to go around. I just did the mind the soil, uh, talk is one reason 00:16:12 that it happens because you're supposed to be flinging out dry fertility in the fall. 'cause by golly, otherwise it looks like 00:16:17 you've done, you're doing something wrong. Obviously. Templar talk about the easy button. Matt Miles has been a great example of this. 00:16:25 He says, I never did what these guys did. Going out there with liquid and hitting it four times, because I just went with, I wanna cover a lot 00:16:32 of acres as fast as I can. It was easy for me. Just do fall. So the easy, I say the number two reason the habit exists 00:16:37 for bad fall fertility habits is it's easy. Anyone, I mean, honestly, that's, that's the main reason. And until we get to a point in our farming careers 00:16:50 where it's coming to the whole country where the government or whoever shoves us into a corner 00:16:57 where they mandated it like they did out here. Um, and you have to reinvent yourself as a farmer on at learning how 00:17:04 to grow the plant instead of grow the acre. It will change you. Like unfortunately, farmers 00:17:11 don't really like a lot of change. Mm-hmm. They do the same thing. This is a tradition bound environment. 00:17:17 And we're gonna do what our grandfathers did. We're gonna do what our fathers did. Yes, it is the easy button, 00:17:22 but we generally don't like any change whatsoever. So until that, um, somebody forces that issue into a change. 00:17:31 Damien, you and me went in Nebraska and we did a talk. I mean, and the, the, the studies that they've done we're staggering. 00:17:39 I mean, you saw it like toxic levels of nitrate in the water. Like this thing is coming to everywhere. 00:17:47 So I think that farmers generally need to change a little better perspective. And I think it's coming with the newer generation. 00:17:54 You know, you got the younger generation that is willing to educate yourself. 00:17:58 They are on the internet all the time. They've got, they've got the world at their fingertips. They can look up anything. 00:18:04 It wasn't like that when me, Tommy and Chad were younger, you know, when, when we were in college or when we 00:18:10 were starting our careers. It's so much easier for them to look stuff up. Yep. I think the change is coming. 00:18:15 And I think it's easier because you got the younger generation of farmers that are really willing to look outside the box. 00:18:21 It has changed somewhat By the way. You, you hit on two things. First off I said it's mining the soil pressure, then there's the easy button. 00:18:29 Then you said, we've always done it this way. And you talked about the fact that you're gonna have to make the change. 00:18:33 That's the point. By the way, if you're listening or watching this, go back and check out an episode. Temple and I were in February in western Nebraska 00:18:40 where it is a, there's two businesses, ag and other ag period, and there's pressure on ag about too much fertility 00:18:48 applied at the wrong time getting into the aquifers and the wells. And if this is happening in the, one 00:18:54 of the most rural agricultural areas in the country where they're starting to feel the footsteps of, or environmental regulation coming, you think 00:19:01 that's not coming to Madison, Alabama where there's uh, what, what, you know, you're next to a population center of a half million and growing 00:19:08 and you think that's pressure ain happening. You're gonna have no choice but to get better about this. Yeah. That, that part of it scares us to death. 00:19:14 It just, they, you, you don't know. And that's what my granddaddy done. That's what my granddaddy done. 00:19:18 And that's just the, that's just much fertilizer we put out. And that's just what I'm gonna do. 00:19:24 I wanna throw another reason out there and I want to go with, uh, Tommy. There is a certain amount 00:19:31 of not just all we've always done this way, the sales reps and the retail in, uh, infrastructure is set up 00:19:39 from the time we were kids. You go get the fertilizer buggies after the harvest is done, you send over one of your, 00:19:45 your people and they start applying dry fertility. It's been that way for a long time. But there's also your sales rep from the 00:19:52 co-op or the retailer. What, they don't have no incentive to change this. There's a certain amount of pressure from the, 00:19:58 from the, the business structure. Unfortunately, you're right. I mean, retail makes their, 00:20:07 and I, I don't mean to p**s anybody off, but retail makes their money on spread and dry fertilizer. They're not making it on, they don't make much on a, 00:20:16 you know, ton of urea or dap. They make the money spread and dry fertilizer. And, and another thing that what people have to realize 00:20:27 or understand, things have changed since 20 years ago when we didn't have a lot of precision, uh, precision placement, fertility options. 00:20:41 I mean, now you got, you got all sorts of gizmos and gadgets you can put on planters. You got wide drops, you got drones, 00:20:49 you got all these different tools that you don't have to solely rely on on fall fertility. You can do a lot of it spoon 00:21:00 and feeding throughout the, throughout the season. It's now how many, how many people have a drone nowadays? Yeah, yeah. Well, a larger, larger, more modern farms. 00:21:10 And that's gonna be coming. I mean, like the farmers that don't have drones, it's kinda like the households that didn't have, uh, a car and still had a horse. 00:21:17 This is gonna change fast. I think my perception is, uh, there's gonna be drones on all these guys operations at a 00:21:24 certain, uh, level. Alright, I wanna go with we did Why, why the habit exists. Mining the soil and the pressure on that from the neighbors 00:21:31 or the tenants, I'm sorry, the, uh, the landlords, et cetera. It's the easy button asterisk. 00:21:34 That's the easy button is the number one reason Temple says, uh, Chad, obviously we've always done it that way. 00:21:40 Dad did that way, whatever. Then retail pressure. I was gonna throw the other night there. Do you think there's still a lack of education? 00:21:46 A lack of awareness? Do you think that's the reason? Yes, that's what I was gonna say next. That is, that is one of our biggest problems in agriculture. 00:21:55 And I'm gonna say it and I'm gonna, I am definitely gonna p**s some people off, but I don't know that I care. 00:22:01 There, there's, there's been so much of this out there of this sales agronomist. Yeah. That really, in my mind, doesn't necessarily list 00:22:11 because, uh, you know, exist because that guy doesn't, not always, but a lot of the times the retailers in the area have got, 00:22:21 oh, we will, you know, I got a sales agronomist. No, he's really not. He's a salesman because he's got no agronomy degree. 00:22:29 But when you sit down and you ask That guy, me, you don't either me and you don't either. Yeah, but here's the difference. 00:22:34 Let me, lemme teach and tell you the difference. So I asked one of the guys one time and I said, let me, let me, let me ask you something. 00:22:41 And he said, yep. And I was like, how many acres of corn have you grown in your life? And he was like, oh, thousands and thousands. 00:22:48 I said, no, no, no. That's not what I asked. What I'm asking is, is when have you been at risk to not feed your family 00:22:55 over making a mistake on spending millions of dollars in fertility in one year? Have you ever been at that risk? Well, no. 00:23:02 And I said, okay, so why am I gonna follow your advice on my dirt when you don't even have an agronomy degree to point me in the right direction? 00:23:12 Education is the biggest fricking problem. It is the biggest one. It makes me so mad. I get so angry about it. It makes me insane. 00:23:21 But there's no talking to some of these companies. They just got a salesman that used to be, lemme show you how they work out. 00:23:27 They come to a retailer and they start out as an applicator. They move from an applicator to a yard manager. 00:23:33 They move from a yard manager into a sales person. They move from a sales person into a sales agronomist. Then they move from a sales agronomist into the manager 00:23:40 of that fricking store. And they then been at risk for nothing their whole life. Life. Mm-hmm. And it makes me 00:23:46 so angry, I can't see straight. And they, yet they come to a farmer, all these American farmers that have killed their self 00:23:54 to provide for their family. And they literally are begging us to spend millions of dollars on their request. 00:24:01 Are you actually kidding me right now? Hey Chad, I wanna, hallelujah. Hey Chad. Hallelujah. Chad. I wanna put it out there. 00:24:07 First off, he, he, he is like a church tent revival and he's down here saying, hallelujah. But the thing is, temple led off by saying, 00:24:14 I'm gonna p**s some people off. He didn't just p**s off some people. Every person in the, in the institution 00:24:20 of agricultural retail provider. Hey, p****d off, p****d off. I right there. I, I am not, 00:24:26 Did I say sorry, that Temple Road man. No It'ss. Alright. I say I'm sorry, before I 00:24:30 started, I didn't, I think It's really important. I think it's really important. Remember we talk about the 00:24:33 education part of this, and that's why extreme ag was started to help other farm guys, farm, farm girls, whatever. 00:24:38 Farmers do this, farming better. And what you just outlined is a little bit, I mean, obviously there's plenty of exceptions to that. 00:24:46 Yeah, I go too far. But, but the big part of that is no, I wanted you to take one more breath and go keep going. 00:24:54 I mean, I can, but I, I can't calm down now. I'm good. Light up a cigarette. Uh, Chad. So the thing is, it's not, we say lack of education. 00:25:04 We're not in any way being insulting. We're not. No, it's just, it's just that you, if you are an operator, you've probably been in pretty well indoctrinated by here's 00:25:12 how we do things is how your grandpa did It. Well, I mean the, the, the best, the best, 00:25:15 the best thing you can know to move yourself forward is to know that you don't know it all. Okay? When you realize that you don't know it all 00:25:24 and you put people around you, I mean, how many times, okay, Tommy, let me ask you this. 00:25:29 How many times a week do me and you talk most times, At least, at least two or three times a week? Alright, Now how many times a week do me 00:25:37 and you talk during hours, business hours? None. I call him, I call him on Sunday. Zero. 00:25:43 I call him on Sunday. So it's Typically after you call me at Sunday, eight o'clock. My point is, you everybody needs that person in their life 00:25:53 that they can bounce stuff off of. Yeah. That has Tommy, Tommy don't have anything to do with dry fertilizer or liquid fertilizer. 00:25:59 He just gives me information on the topic. I ask whether it's out there on a copper or something that we don't ever talk about or other things. 00:26:07 You've gotta have that person in your life, in your farm, in your business that you can rely on 00:26:13 to get this information from. That's not biased. I mean, me and Tommy talk as friends, we talk about, you know, 00:26:19 stuff we're doing with our wives. I mean, it's just stuff, you know, I'm gonna take you one step further and you, we were, 00:26:26 before we started this, we were talking about some different ideas about episodes that we're gonna do in November talking about lack of, 00:26:36 you know, lack of knowledge, lack of information, land-grant, universities Do nobody any good nowadays. 00:26:45 Woo. Man, we catch by Today. Hey, so, so hey Chad. Temple's got the entire in ag retail, um, business model p****d off 00:26:55 and now Temple to Tommy's going after academia. Who you gonna pick? Who, who do you wanna choose? You know, what time? Me and you Damien? We go hang out. 00:27:03 We go hang out and pick up, pick up a patient. Well, I mean, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna back up on something for just a minute. 00:27:09 I want everybody to like, put this in perspective. And I think I said this when me and Damien were somewhere else and Damien was 00:27:15 like, you really p****d him off with that. But here's an analogy for you. So as farmers, every year our, our investment is 00:27:23 between tens of thousands of dollars, hundreds of thousands and millions of dollars. Let's say that at, at that my, 00:27:30 my fertilizer budget this year is, let's just call it, uh, a million dollars. Let's just use that number. So that's my investment, right? 00:27:38 So say I go to a financial firm and say, look, I got a million dollars to invest. Am I gonna talk with the, the guy 00:27:45 that I feel like has got the most education to get me my return on my investment? Or am I gonna give it to the secretary up front 00:27:52 and say, Hey, look, let me know how you make out with this. Yeah. A after you get me, I can get this man a coffee. 00:27:57 Let me know what you think about his portfolio. Yeah, exactly. So like, I, I, that's what I'm getting at. And I'm not saying they're lower level, 00:28:05 it's just farmers need to do a better job of educating yourself. And it's back to what you said, Chad. 00:28:10 You gotta have that person, you gotta have a relationship with a company that you trust with a true agronomist 00:28:18 or somebody that has got a true agronomy background that can point you in the right direction. And, you know, maybe it's tidbits, maybe it's a, a, 00:28:27 a complete revamping of your operation. Like those kind of things help. But like, you gotta educate yourself, 00:28:36 Put your people around it, realize that you don't know it all, realize that your granddaddy, man, it's hard for me to say, 00:28:42 but they, you know, they've dealt with the boast that they had, the pieces that they had to make it work. Like Tommy said, there's technology out 00:28:48 there, things change. I know I don't like change. No, It's a whole new world now, But it's a new world out there. 00:28:53 And still our job as farmers is to stay in business, period. Okay? So we figure out how 00:28:58 to stay in business and that's it. I like, by the way, I like the thing first off, we're gonna go through how to wrap it up, 00:29:06 how you can break the bad fall fertility, but, and I think I've already heard it, the tech, The land grant step, that was what Tommy said 00:29:13 that was out of breaking this. Yeah, well there's, well Now listen to university. Well, and and his thing is not invalid. 00:29:19 They, a lot of what's happened, Verne talks about it. Kelly Garrett's son says, I went to Iowa State, I got a degree in agronomy, and he's only 25. 00:29:25 So it was only a few years ago when he was there. And he said, there's still telling kids my age the same s**t that they told, uh, 00:29:34 people older than my dad. They haven't changed their, their agronomic education in 40 or 50 years. 00:29:41 And are we trying to pretend that we don't have better tech, better tools, better ability to use our fertility, 00:29:46 environmental regulation. Everything else is changed in 50 years and we're still out here. So to Tommy's point, these land grant universities, 00:29:52 I know we'll get some blow back on this in large part. Take it from Vern. He's the kid that was just there a few years ago, says, 00:29:58 ain't changing 50 years. Am I right, Tommy? No, I, Hey, if you wanna talk another hour, let's go. Tommy said whatever. 00:30:08 Uh, I wanna throw one out there though, Tim, or Yeah, Tim talked about is then, you know, rethinking. That's the hard part. Obviously that's why we're here. 00:30:14 That's why we invented this entire show and everything. And what you guys do in the videos you shoot in the field is changing the, the eight inches between your ears. 00:30:21 Right. And that's, that's the big one. That's exactly right. So, um, we're going through how to break the habit. 00:30:29 I got tech and tools. Tommy talked about that now more than ever with GPS, with, uh, the ability to put stuff, you know, precision, uh, 00:30:35 application, et cetera. Rethinking, which is a hard one. And then temple said retooling, meaning redoing what you do, 00:30:43 Chad's putting out in strip tilt. Well, Mike didn't. Right? Right. And you're doing, and you're doing stuff 00:30:49 on how you apply stuff. It's, you could just gotta change some of your practices. Oh, wait a minute. But they did, you know, back, 00:30:57 back Dad talks about, you know, what broke them. They, they was tickled with a fertilizer spreader because back in the day they put dry 00:31:04 fertilizer out with a planter. Right? So when you think that you've, you've mastered something. 00:31:09 They was doing that in 1965. I mean, you know, but they got to where they could spread it. 00:31:14 It, it, it made it easy. But a convenience, they hit that easy button. When they started hitting that easy button, 00:31:18 they kept hitting that easy button, you know, but it was all they had at the time. I just, I just, I Tommy 00:31:26 Chad, since we're, Take Chad's scenario for an example, he's not cutting out, putting out fertilizer in the fall, 00:31:36 but where he started, say four years ago at putting out three, 400 pounds, now he's down to a hundred or less. 00:31:44 Yeah. And, and, and now we're focusing on what we wanna focus on is the things that we can fix. You know, I talked to Tommy Reone like, Hey, I need to, 00:31:53 I really need to up this zinc in this thing. Zinc in a strip tail is perfect. You know, so it's things like that. 00:31:58 Maybe it's a little bit more sulfur. Maybe it's a little bit of zinc. Maybe we're I have a mag problem. A lot of sulfur. Yeah. 00:32:03 I mean, I have a mag problem. That's why we run with km mag. You know, uh, we're addressing problems in the strip. 00:32:09 We're not just going after fertility. I'm gonna ask you a question. Should, should there be no fall fertility at all, Tommy? 00:32:19 Oof. Ooh, come on. Yes. Well, if we're going, Hey, hey. Oh s**t, I said that, sorry, we're about breaking the fall fertility habit. 00:32:26 Is cold Turkey just like quitting cigarettes? Is it, is it smartest just to go cold Turkey and say, and I'm not saying that. 00:32:33 'cause if you're running, if you're running strip till and the corn belt, it's okay. Instead of putting out 3, 4, 500 pounds, okay, 00:32:41 do what Chad's doing. Okay. Hundred. You know, and then take, take that money, reallocate those dollars and use and use it in the plant. 00:32:52 Feed the plant, don't feed the acre. Yep. You know, I wanna do another one. We're gonna do this maybe in the grainery. I love it. 00:33:02 Temple said, imagine you took a million dollars into an investment, uh, firm. Are you gonna talk to the person 00:33:09 that's cleaning the toilets about what they should do with that million dollars not being mean, 00:33:12 but there's somebody that's much more proficient or should be much more knowledgeable about how to deploy your million dollars for maximum return. 00:33:21 Yes. And that's what you're doing with the fur, with the, with your crop inputs. 00:33:25 And I think that, uh, Hey, people are doing that right now. They're listening to me and Temple on here. Now. 00:33:30 They're the one, Tommy needs to be one taking the calls and they're listening to me and Temple and, and we're the ones that said 90% 00:33:36 of the time just cleaning toilets. We got here by cleaning toilets. Exactly. How else should we, 00:33:44 what else should we, I wrote down tech tools, utilization of that, rethinking your entire fertility program 00:33:49 and then retooling and rearranging because Temple and Chad already do that. They got you, Have you, you have all winner. 00:33:55 Educate yourself. Take one topic, whether it's potash, dap, don't try to educate yourself on all of 'em. 00:34:02 My, this year my winner, I'm talking to everybody. I know me and Tommy's talking about it. Mag, I'm going to fix my mag problem every time I say I'm 00:34:09 going to, then it hurts bad on the pocketbook, but I'm gonna take one half of a pivot and I'm gonna figure out what to do and what not to do. 00:34:17 Maybe it's a winter application, maybe it's not. Tommy's got some mag aate we're gonna lean on pretty heavy, uh, calcium 00:34:24 Aate. And there's some, there's some pretty good feedback on that. I got that Mag aate in some trials this year 00:34:30 to Tommy said I sent out here. It's, um, it's there boss. Yep. So see There things like that ain't b******t about it, 00:34:38 but it's getting that s**t on at the right time. You know, that's the other thing that, That's right. So we're 00:34:42 gonna, I'm, you know, just look to educate yourself about one thing all the time. You know, because it's information overload. 00:34:48 It's like drinking from a fire hose. If you don't, you know, I mean, I think it's easier to grow to, I mean, 00:34:54 if you want somewhere to start, right? Just start with something like figure out what the low hanging fruit is. 00:35:02 You know, we talk about the low hanging fruit. Figure out what that one thing that you think, whether you figure it out through a tissue sample, 00:35:08 whether you've figured it out through a soil sample, something that's inherently a problem for you. Like, figure out that one thing 00:35:15 and then go back to that chart that Tommy's got. Right? Very easy. Go into his book, look at his chart 00:35:20 and say, okay, this one nutrient on this chart is, looks like I need it between these couple periods. Split that thing out and, and put it on throughout the year 00:35:32 and watch what happens. Just watch. But you have like sit back and pay attention to your crop. 00:35:38 But you have to know you're going to do that and say, Hey, I'm cutting $20 an acre out of this dry program and I'm going 00:35:43 to spend it $20 an acre over here on some form of liquid program or some form of additive. I need something else that, 00:35:50 And it's not that, it's not as hard as what, like, you know, when we were out there talking at the field day, you know, Tommy and I got a couple questions from the 00:35:59 audience and the audience was like, and we, and it was the same thing down there to, to Johnny's when I was down there. 00:36:05 You get this, this false sensation of like, everybody thinks like, well you're adding another, uh, another past. 00:36:11 You're getting, you're doing this, you're doing that. There's nothing that I'm doing that's aiding another past. I'm just putting something in the past that I'm making 00:36:20 efficient to go into the plant at that time. I'm not aiding the plant. Your the plant Reference, You reference not the aist. You, 00:36:27 You two are the farmers and he's the professional agronomist, not the sales agronomist, he's the professional agronomist and research agronomist. 00:36:34 I'm just the host of this show. But I can tell you one thing that the most illustrative, I like to use that word because Matt 00:36:40 Miles says, what's he talking about? Meaning it illustrates the point, that chart that nature's put out 00:36:46 that shows when the demand is on the percentage of the, of the resource needed. And I'm looking at that 00:36:53 and I'm like, that's what cornfields look like here in my part of Indiana about mid to late July. 00:36:58 And, but I'm like, so how in the hell would I expect that fertilizer put out in October is still going to be there when that plant needs it in July? 00:37:07 That's nine months difference, right? Here's The reason you're still feeding the, the acre. You're not feeding the plant. That's it. Sorry Chad. 00:37:18 All right. I wanna do the last thought on this when I said how to break this habit. 'cause that's what we promised these, uh, 00:37:24 listeners and viewers we were going to do. And if you are a listener, become a viewer, go to our YouTube channel or Extreme Ag Farm. 00:37:29 But if you go to extreme ag on our YouTube, just type in extreme ag and hit subscribe. It don't cost nothing. You'll see all of our cool stuff, 00:37:34 including our show, the Grainery, which is on YouTube. And you'll see guys like Chad Temple and Tommy who are at our Grainery. 00:37:39 It's a great show. It's been going now for a year. And we talk about all kinds of cool stuff. So pull up a chair and join us there. 00:37:45 Um, I've got my big one on this. If you want to break the habit, if you believe that you're blowing money, Tommy opened up with 00:37:55 UANs up 173% year over year. Ammonia is up 125% year over year. Dap is the DAPs. The DAPs the one that's not really keeping up. 00:38:03 It's only up 91% year over year. You're spending a bunch of money. Imagine that's out. It's all cigarettes. Marlboros are worth $14 selling 00:38:11 for 14 bucks a pack right now. So imagine the same thing. You know what you need to do. If you wanna change and break your habit, 00:38:17 change your peer group and who you have for support. If you are hanging around a bunch of people that are chain smokers, 00:38:24 they're gonna say, everybody's doing it. Just keep smoking. What difference does it make? You know what it, it's, it's fun. 00:38:30 If you're hanging around people that are not smokers or reform smokers, they're gonna help you better than the people that are smokers. 00:38:36 That's the same thing with this hanging around people like Chad and Temple and Tommy and the folks at Extreme Ag. 00:38:40 'cause we're telling you, you're doing this in large part because it's a habit, because it was easy. 00:38:46 Or you think you're supposed to 'cause the coffee shop, people are gonna talk to you about it if you don't go fling a bunch 00:38:50 of fertility out there in a fall. Am I right? I You're, you're exactly right. But I would pick Matt and Kevin or, or Matt and Kelly. 00:38:57 I wouldn't pick me and Temple at the same bunch. You can hang with me or Temple, but not me and Temple. Temple, I'm sorry Tommy. 00:39:06 Um, I think I've got something there that if you wanna break the habit, you better change who you, uh, hang around 00:39:11 because all your old, all your usual buddies that get together all winter in the shop and gossip about the neighbors, 00:39:16 they're not spending winter on how to get smarter about magnesium and their, and their soil like Chad is. 00:39:21 They're doing the same thing, commiserating about how they're broke and BSing around about what the neighbors are doing. 00:39:27 Instead, find a new group and it's right here on how to break this habit. How do you eat an alpha, One bite 00:39:34 At a time? One bite at a time, right? God dang, like a watermelon. This, this is what, this is what an older, 00:39:39 older guy told me years ago and, and it always hit home with me. Keep doing what you're doing. 00:39:43 Keep getting what you're getting. Boom. Think about that. That's how I'm gonna leave it right 00:39:48 there. You've got a fall. You always say down here in the south, play kid games. Get kid prizes. 00:39:54 Keep doing what you're doing. You're gonna keep getting what you're getting. Keep playing kids' games, keep getting kids' prizes. 00:39:58 That's the wisdom. But the bigger point here is we're trying to help you break your bad fall fertility habit. 00:40:03 If you don't think that there's enough reason to do it, just because of crops, do it 00:40:08 because of the regulation that is gonna be coming. Temple just talked about that. Do it for the economic reasons that Tommy laid out. 00:40:13 Do it because you challenge yourself to be a better farmer like Chad talked about. I'm Damien Mason, I just named all the people that are here. 00:40:20 This is extreme as cutting the curve is one of my favorite episodes we've ever done. We're talking about breaking the bad fall fertility habit. 00:40:24 If you wanna learn more about how to use products from our friends at Nature's, tell me where do they go? 00:40:30 Www.natures.com And that's N-A-C-H-U-R-S natures.com. And check out all of our cool shows, including when he comes to the greenery and, uh, all the other cool stuff. 00:40:39 The hundreds and hundreds of videos these guys shoot in the field that's at Extreme mag.farm on our website 00:40:44 and also past episodes. We've recorded about 400 of these episodes and so I'd like you to check those out also. 00:40:50 Till next time, thanks for being here. I'm Damien Mason with Extreme Ag. Please share this, somebody that can benefit from it. 00:40:56 That's a wrap for this episode of Cutting the Curve. Make sure to check out Extreme ag.farm for more great content to help you squeeze more profit out 1008 00:41:04.525 --> 00:41:05.845