Farming Podcast | Are You Ready for the 45Z Credit? | XtremeAg

00:00:00 45Z's next evolution. It's tax legislation that is moving through the government channels, and ultimately, we believe it's going to make farmers more money. You got to get the scoop from us. 00:00:10 That's what we're covering in this episode of XtremeAg's Cutting the Curve. Welcome to XtremeAg's Cutting the Curve podcast, where real 00:00:17 farmers share real insights and real results to help you improve your farming operation. And now, here's your host, 00:00:25 Damian Mason. Hey there. Welcome to another fantastic episode of XtremeAg's Cutting the Curve. This is very timely. That is why I'm not in my studio. 00:00:33 I'm actually at some other event, and I had to come in here to get this recorded because we want to bring this scoop straight to you. 00:00:38 I've got Kelly Garrett, founder of XtremeAg, joined by Ryan Percy with Arva. Arva is a company that is focused on taking regenerative agricultural 00:00:46 practices that are done by you, the producer, and making it make economic sense. That's not exactly their tagline, but I didn't write it down. 00:00:52 So, the point is, you're going to learn a lot. Ryan's a specialist in this. He's a 45Z guy. He's all about this. 00:00:59 We just, on June 26th, late night the 25th of June, found out that this 45Z, which is government legislation that it- and I'm going to let Ryan explain it, is going to 00:01:10 help us in production agriculture capture money from the marketplace by managing and reducing our carbon, essentially. We talked about this at Commodity Classic. 00:01:21 Kelly's going to give you the high bullet points from that in case you didn't attend Commodity Classic or didn't watch the video that we recorded from there. 00:01:28 So first off, Ryan, you've been doing this for a long time. You've been with Arva. This legislation finally moved down the road a little bit. 00:01:36 We're not there yet, but we're getting closer. Please give a quick explanation. What's 45Z, and what happened this week that is 00:01:43 important to the producer? Yeah. So 45Z itself is set up to be a tax credit to help the biofuel market itself. How that's done is helping biofuel 00:01:52 producers, and that means ethanol plants and biodiesel plants, reduce their overall carbon score. 00:01:59 It's went through several iterations in the last couple of years, but the key thing from a grower standpoint is, is we are on the journey to be 00:02:07 able to incentivize the feedstock, so that is the corn or sorghum for ethanol, to be able to realize the value of that. 00:02:16 Yesterday, and the night before yesterday, really came out. What it is, is it's guidance on the regenerative feedstock side that 00:02:23 came from the USDA. For 45Z to be enacted completely, to get value on it, we have to have that from the USDA. That was a big, big step. 00:02:33 We've got feedback and information from the Department of Energy, and then we are now waiting on Treasury to make their final ruling so it can 00:02:41 completely go into effect. For growers out there, though- Real quickly. 00:02:46 We need US Department of Agriculture, we need Department of Energy, and we need Treasury, which is IRS. 00:02:53 We're two-thirds of the way there now? Is that what I'm- Yeah. That's how we view it. We really got feedback from the Department of Energy. 00:02:59 This is from the USDA, and now we need the Treasury to make some final rules and comments. 00:03:04 Okay. So, ultimately, Kelly, the person watching this cares because they've heard about it from you and from us. Give the high points about what 45Z is and how 00:03:17 you're going to make money on it as a farmer, and then what we covered when we did our recording from Commodity. 00:03:24 Well, like Ryan said, 45Z is a tax credit for ethanol that measures your CI score. It talks about your CI score. It talks about an ethanol plant needing to get their product under a 50 00:03:35 CI. The average score of corn in the United States is 29, and the easiest, most practical way, in my opinion, from a farmer's 00:03:43 perspective, for the ethanol plant to lower their CI score is to partner with the farmer or partner with the customers of the ethanol plant and 00:03:51 use our personal CI scores instead of the average. Currently, the Department of Energy has said that the average score, like I said, was a 29. My score is a zero to a negative. 00:04:02 Other farmers might have a score of a 10 or a 15, which is obviously less than 29. 00:04:09 When they enact this and an ethanol plant can use grower scores and average them for that plant, that plant will have a lower CI product, and they will qualify for this. 00:04:20 The law says it's two cents a gallon, which roughly translates to five and a half cents a bushel. That's not five and a half cents a bushel to the grower. 00:04:29 It's five and a half cents value to the tax credit. It remains to be seen what each individual plant will give the grower, but this has the potential to add a lot of 00:04:40 revenue to a corn acre for a farmer in the United States that delivers to an ethanol plant. 00:04:45 So Ryan, yes. Thank you. And so, Ryan, the complexity, and you can see where some producers, and many people, not just producers, are going to say, "I'm 00:04:53 not sure I still understand all this." You can totally get in the weeds because this is your specialty. You're an expert in this. The boiled-down version is 00:05:02 there's about 196 ethanol plants in the United States of America, last I looked. So each one of them is going to do business their own way. Of course, some of them are corporate-owned, and they might be under an 00:05:12 umbrella. Whatever. They're incentivized to capture this money that is now available as a tax credit, and to do so, they're going to buy 00:05:23 corn off of a producer that can verify this. So let's talk about the business, then we're going to talk about the verification, tracking, et cetera. 00:05:31 But the business standpoint is a tax credit, and our sophisticated listeners understand, that doesn't mean free money. 00:05:36 It means if you owe taxes, you just now have a credit against it. That ethanol plant might not owe a million dollars of taxes, but they can take the tax credit and market 00:05:48 it on. That was a key component of this because it becomes essentially a tax credit, becomes a marketable security. 00:05:53 Could you just briefly, high-level view, explain that? Yeah. So as you said, if we just stick with ethanol from that standpoint, because obviously it's the 00:06:02 biggest pullout there. From that standpoint, there are companies out there that they are large enough corporations that they can utilize that tax 00:06:09 credit. That's one segment. The other, and the vast majority, as you said, will be looking to sell the tax credit 00:06:16 On a market. That is typically for Fortune 500 companies, large corporations that are looking to reduce their tax liability. 00:06:23 So that will mean that that $1 of tax credit won't be $1 in the end of the day. It'll be slightly less than that because of the cost to sell it, but there is still 00:06:34 tremendous value that we see with 45Z. As Kelly said, there are ways to lower your CI other than just the feedstock, but the feedstock is the 00:06:45 simplest, lowest cost for a biofuel producer to do, and it's there. We know it exists. It's helping the people they are buying feedstocks grain from 00:06:56 today. That helps strengthens their relationships. A lot of biofuel plants are looking at it from that angle, which is a good way to look at it. So that is what we're really trying to do at ARPA, is 00:07:07 being able to help biofuel plants make that connection, and go through all the different steps that are going to be required. Because I want everybody to remember, at the end of the day, this is a treasury 00:07:20 IRS auditable program, and our job is to make that as simple and, let's say, as easy for the grower to have that data input and for the ethanol plant to be able to submit 00:07:32 that for the final tax credits. So a few things along the way. First off, this is not going to be mandatory. Kelly, speak to it from a farm perspective because there's a lot of these, "I don't 00:07:40 know if I want to do that. I'm 75 years old. I'm not even sure I understand all that." You don't have to. No. 00:07:45 So go ahead. And the point is, an ethanol plant doesn't have to. This is not required by anybody, right? 00:07:52 No, this isn't required for the ethanol plant to take part, and it's not required for the farmer to take part. But simply put, 00:07:59 with a little data and a little office work, which farmers traditionally don't like to do, I don't like to do, 00:08:05 you're adding a lot of value to your corn. I want to say, before I misspoke, I said it's a tax credit for ethanol. As Ryan pointed, it's a tax credit for biofuels. 00:08:13 The Bi-beautiful Bill really helped, if I'm saying this right, Ryan, and it opened it up to biodiesel and things like that. 00:08:20 This is great for American crops. So like, Damian, you're correct, with 196 ethanol plants, how many 00:08:26 biodiesel producers are there? This is a great deal throughout agriculture, throughout row crop country in the United States. It really is. And again, it's voluntary. 00:08:38 If you don't want to take part, don't take part. But here, I view this as we're now not just treating our row 00:08:46 crops as a commodity. You're now getting paid. I view it as the quality, because if you are doing things in a low CI manner and a regenerative manner, I think you're doing a better job. 00:08:55 I think you're doing a better job as a farmer economically. I think you're doing a better job from a farmer as a steward of the land 00:09:01 environmentally. And now you're getting paid not just for the volume you produce, but the quality of which you do so. 00:09:08 This is a very important step in agriculture. I think it's revolutionary. I've been waiting for this for a couple of years now. It's a great day. 00:09:14 Well, okay, waiting for a couple of years. Ryan, how close are we? I think we're- 00:09:20 We're not talking about something that is maybe not. You believe this will happen, it's just a matter of pace of government. 00:09:28 Yeah. That's primarily it, really. So yeah, we have seen continuously improvement on this specifically in the last several months as it's getting tighter in. 00:09:37 I would suspect we're for sure going to see something before September. I would hope the treasury can get something done in the next month or two, 00:09:45 because there are ethanol and biofuel producers that are still looking even to update their 2025 tax year, which we believe will be possible to be 00:09:53 able to do with feedstocks. So in other words, you believe this is going to be retroactive, or at least we can go back, the ethanol plant, the biofuel plant can 00:10:02 use this and some corporation can utilize a tax credit for 2025. But that tax has already been paid, so how does that work? 00:10:11 Yeah. So we believe that there will be an ability to amend that. We, again, are waiting to see. That would be nice because that would be able to 00:10:18 return money to producers for stuff they did really for the 2024 crop. 00:10:23 Right. But if it doesn't happen, we know, again, with high certainty that it will be for the '26 tax year. As we get here 00:10:31 into the end of '26 and the calendar flips over, we'll be ready to go. 00:10:37 Kelly, what does a farmer need to do? We told them this when we were in February, March at Commodity Classic in San Antonio, and we've been preaching it here at 00:10:47 XtremeAg, but this is not something you want to keep saying, "Well, maybe someday we'll do that." Right now, they should get their ducks in a 00:10:54 row on getting their carbon score. Am I right? 100%. You should not, in my opinion, yet pay to get your carbon score, 00:11:04 but you should educate yourself. ARPA has a calculator. There's other places out there that have calculators. ARPA is the one I use. To me, it's the simplest one. You should go to the website, you should find the 00:11:15 calculator, and you should put in your farming practices. Your geography's going to have something to do with it, and you need to educate 00:11:22 yourself on what your score is today. And then you need to look at what are some easy things I can do to lower my score? That's what you need to do today. 00:11:32 And because obviously the crop's growing in the field, the soybeans are in the reproductive stages, corn's reaching that, so there isn't much 00:11:40 we're going to do today to lower the '26 crop. As Ryan said, there's going to be plants that are going to get some revenue out of '25. We obviously aren't going to change '25. 00:11:49 But educate yourself today on what your CI score is- Yeah ... and then educate yourself on how to- 00:11:57 Lower it ... lower that CI score for the '27 season. You're going to make decisions in the fall of '26 for the '27 crop that are going to impact that CI score, and XtremeAg can help you do that, 00:12:08 like I said. Okay. So if I want to do that, do I go to a website to get things going? I can, right? 00:12:15 Ryan can answer that with the calculator. Does Arva have a calculator? If I'd say, "Okay, I want to know what my CI score looks like," how do I do that, Ryan? 00:12:21 Yeah. And let me explain what Arva really does and how we work to help growers out is we don't really go directly to growers. We work through channel partners. 00:12:29 We work through co-ops, retailers, people like that, because we have found that the agronomists and those people that talk to those guys every day have obviously the best way to help 00:12:41 make a guy understand and figure this out as it evolves, and then help influence how their practices and their general regenerative 00:12:49 score can increase by doing additionality. Right? So as Kelly said, we're getting here now into almost July. Next couple of months, people will be thinking about, well, do I want to fly a 00:13:00 cover crop on? Our view of that is if you're going to be planting corn into that field next year, man, it would really behoove you if any of that crop is going to be going to 00:13:10 sell to an ethanol plant to fly some covers on. Covers have a very big reduction in CI almost no matter where you are, right? 00:13:21 And so one thing that changed yesterday that was an improvement that helps growers out is the calculator that was, 00:13:30 let's say, brought in by the USDA. The updated USDA calculator has a much better way to view the practices, the regenerative practices 00:13:39 on a granular level. And that data and that work to input that, how we work at Arva is we work through agronomists at co-ops and retailers. 00:13:48 They work with the grower to help input that data, and then we take that data, certify it, put traceability on it, and then 00:13:56 help it submit that to the ethanol plant for the tax credit. Okay. So 00:14:01 the operator that says, "I need to know. I don't even know where to start," I can go to where to start punching in. Do you do cover crops? It's just a series of questions, right, Kelly? 00:14:10 Yep. Do you do cover crops? Do you do reduced tillage? Do you do strip till? Do you apply animal manure? That's what we're talking about, right? 00:14:16 Variable rate. No-till cover crops and manure, or not dry P&K. My plant food product works very well. 00:14:26 No-till cover crops and not using dry P&K, variable rate nitrogen, those would be the top four things, in my opinion, that are going to 00:14:33 reduce the score. Talked about that. Ryan talks about a channel partner. I call it the XtremeAg Family. Regenerative Roots, the logo's over my 00:14:42 right shoulder here. XtremeAg's obviously over my left shoulder. I'm sitting in the Calibrated Agronomy building. 00:14:48 That's the XtremeAg family of companies. We are a channel partner of Arva. Regenerative Roots is Arva's largest retailer. Working with Arva, we've given 00:14:58 $12, $14 million in the last few years here through their programs, and we are set up to help with this. If a grower listens to this and they want help with their CI 00:15:09 score or they want help with their education on how to lower their CI score, reach out to us at XtremeAg. 00:15:14 And so if I want to start to get my scoring and all that in place, 00:15:20 where can I find this potential calculator, just so I can start? Ryan, you've got something? 00:15:24 Yeah. Anybody can go out to the USDA. If you type in USDA FDCIC, type that into Google, you can find 00:15:33 it. It's the one that was released just yesterday, I believe, 6/26. 00:15:38 I go to the USDA. I don't even need to go to their website. Just basically any Google search. USDA FC- 00:15:45 FD FD. E as in dog. CIC. CIC. Or I'm sure you could just type in carbon score, carbon intensity score, US Department of Agriculture. That's what we're talking about. 00:15:54 Yep. And what I'm hearing here is the impetus to do this is now, because we are two-thirds of the way there. The other shoe is going to fall. 00:16:01 The final three leg, you said a three-legged stool is your words, Ryan. What about then 00:16:08 the person that says, "Is this all a bunch of b******t? Am I really going to get checked?" And you talked about this before we hit record, about the tracking and traceability. 00:16:16 I think it's important for you to speak to that, because at some point, this isn't like jaywalking. I think if you're really doing this, this has to be 00:16:25 real. Otherwise, because you're going to be talking about a substantial amount of money and this ethanol plant, biofuel plant, whoever it is, 00:16:32 they're on the hook for this. So you want to speak to that? Yeah. And it's pretty straightforward. Like I said before, this is a tax credit. 00:16:38 It is auditable by the IRS. One of the superpowers that Arva has is we do this for large consumer packaged goods, so a lot of the food 00:16:46 companies that you guys obviously know, and the end of the day can sell your crop too in one way or the other. 00:16:53 We do work for them on auditing and verifying their supply sheds. We do that today. It matches up very well with the rules that are 00:17:01 being set up for 45Z. Feedstock in terms of how you measure them is one thing. The other is how you evidence it, how you prove that out. 00:17:10 Mm-hmm. We have data systems that we can go in there and using pictures, taking machine data from John Deere Ops and other systems, we can 00:17:18 prove that out. We also add an extra layer of traceability. All acres are put on a registry. And what that does and why that's 00:17:25 important is if and when a plant was ever audited by the IRS, we can prove out that their feedstocks that 00:17:33 they sourced and they claimed as regenerative feedstocks were actually truly regenerative feedstocks. So that is a huge, 00:17:43 I would say it's a huge effort on our side. We've got muscle to do that, and we've got muscle to do that on scale across the entire country in terms worth of ethanol plants. 00:17:53 I know you're- That is... Yeah. I know you're reluctant to make a promise, and we always hate that, by the way. Well, how much does this cost? Well, it depends. 00:18:01 Well, you know what? Then why am I here? So I know you're reluctant to give an absolute number. How big can this be? How big can this be total, and then how big can this be, I'm going to go to Kelly, 00:18:11 at the farm level? How big can this be, Ryan? Yeah. So one of the big things is every ethanol plant is going to be slightly different. That's just the reality, guys. 00:18:19 What we have found is it's going to be down to the ethanol plant on obviously what percentage of the after-tax credit they pay out to growers. 00:18:27 We have typically seen for the average scores that are being reduced, let's say 10 points or so, you're looking at somewhere around, 00:18:35 on an acre basis, 30 to 40 bucks. Now, it can be much higher than that. Technically, it can be lower than that. But the general reality is if you're somebody like Kelly, 00:18:46 you have a very low CI corn crop, an ethanol plant sees that as very valuable, and we see that as very valuable because we can take that ethanol plant's total CI 00:18:57 down substantially. So the lower you can get that CI for your corn, the better. Got it. And then you think the average is going to be in the $30, 00:19:08 $40 per acre, which is worth doing. It's worth doing because, and also it's the stuff you're talking about doing, Kelly, you pointed out, 00:19:16 is maybe stuff we should be doing anyhow, reduction of tillage, no tillage, strip tillage, cover cropping, manure, et cetera. 00:19:23 Reduction of synthetic P and K, which is overused arguably. You think it could be bigger than 30 or 40 bucks once you really start making these 00:19:33 steps. So Kelly, speak to the economics as you see it. Well, Ryan's talking about 30 or 40 bucks for every 10 points, something like that. 00:19:43 And that to me is a things that a lot of growers should be doing anyway. That 00:19:48 luckily for me, this is easy for me because this is the way I believe to farm anyway. I want to get as efficient as possible because I find an 00:19:56 ROI there. So the changes that we're maybe or suggesting that be made, to me, those changes provide their own ROI. I sure wouldn't view them as an 00:20:08 expense to do this to lower my CI score. Not everybody wants to use cover crops. I like cover crops because of erosion control. 00:20:18 I like cover crops because of the carbon I'm putting back in the soil and for the livestock. Not everybody has that, 00:20:25 but I really believe that the way you're being suggested to change your practices, I think is positive for your farm without this money. And so I don't view it as expense. 00:20:37 I really view it as a great day for agriculture, financially and environmentally. This is really wonderful. 00:20:43 Using the ARV calculator years ago, and now a few years ago now, and now it has changed slightly with USD, like he said, so I need to redo it myself, but I don't use dry P and K. 00:20:55 I use the plant food, the liquid byproduct. That lowered my score 12 points. There's an example, and Ryan is suggesting 12 points could be worth $30 or $40 an acre unto itself. 00:21:05 That's how my score is a zero or even a negative. Right. And so there's education that we can do to help you 00:21:13 lower your score to make more money. Ryan, there's going to be a skepticism-- Thank you. Ryan, there's going to be a skepticism that 00:21:20 the ethanol plant keeps the money. ARVA keeps the money. The farmer gets screwed. I can already hear it right now if I were pulling into the co-op and the guy 00:21:28 sitting at the co-op right now. The co-op, by the way, in Bibbids, Indiana, hasn't existed for about 20 years. But anyway, if it still did exist, and if those farmers 00:21:35 were still alive, which they're not, I would hear them saying this. Address the skepticism, please. 00:21:40 Yeah, and I understand that, right? I would say this has definitely evolved in the last year or so very positively. Ethanol plants and biofuel 00:21:50 plants, I think across the board understand that if I want to maximize my 45Z dollar value, that is lower that CI as much as possible, the simplest, 00:22:02 easiest mechanism in the end of the day, instead of going out and building a $70 million CO2 injector or anything like that, 00:22:10 is to get those feedstocks lowered. Yep. To do that, I've got to get data, and I've got to get verification. Farmers are not just going to give you, and they should not just give you their 00:22:19 data for free, right? So that evolution has happened. More plants are understanding, yep, okay, I get that. And then the key is going to be is now it's going to be is 00:22:29 those guys like Kelly are worth something. We know this. And so now I want to make sure that I can go out and find all the guys like Kelly that have those really low CI scores. 00:22:40 Yep. And they have now evolved to the fact that, yep, we should be able to obviously pay them. We want to do that. 00:22:47 And I would say there is a large contingent of ethanol plants, to say the stick on corn and sorghum, that have understood that, yeah, I want to 00:22:55 establish more of a relationship with my growers. I like to buy direct, and I like to make sure, especially within 50 to 60 miles of me, that I've got a core set of growers that I know are 00:23:05 good, they deliver on time, and they've got an add to it, they've got a lower CI. 00:23:11 Kelly, you can agree or disagree. Nobody here on this recording is able to influence what happens legislatively. So the point I would make is I maybe disagree with 00:23:23 certain components of the entire renewable fuel standard that came to rural America 21 years ago. But it's a game 00:23:30 changer for the economics of row crop agriculture, and I think this to me looks like 00:23:37 it's the next evolution of that, right? I agree. And there's been a lot on social media lately about the renewable fuels. I would also like to respond to what you 00:23:48 asked Ryan about the skepticism. This is a tax credit for ethanol. Ethanol plants can or do not have to share it with farmers. 00:23:58 ARVA and Regenerative Roots as a channel partner sure aren't going to go do all the work 00:24:03 For free. Right. Yeah. Arva wants to make some money. Regenerative Roots would like to make a little money to spend their time to put your data together. 00:24:10 The ethanol plant would like to make some money. And the farmer needs to view themselves as a partner in this. The farmer is a very important component of this because they've got to share their 00:24:20 data, and they've got to do a good job of it. And I agree with you, Damian. In ag, there's so much skepticism from growers about things that have happened in 00:24:28 the past. This is a spot where the farmers are very important, and they need to think of themselves that way as a partner, but they sure shouldn't think everybody else in this chain here is going to do it for free, 00:24:39 because they're not. That's what we want to do. And talking about the renewable fuels and things like that, it seems like it's been the skepticism or some negativity towards that 00:24:49 has been in social media a lot. And at the end of the day, I look at what, not just for farmers, but I look at my local 00:24:57 communities. Mm. I look at the businesses, I look at the schools, I look at the land values. I look at all the things, and I think we should talk more about the 00:25:05 positivity and the positive results to all of those things. Again, not just what my land is worth, but what that's 00:25:13 done for the taxes in Crawford County, what that's done for the schools in Crawford County, what it's done for the small businesses in Crawford 00:25:20 County because of the money that the renewable fuel standard has pumped into the local economy. It isn't just ag. I tell you what, if a farmer does one thing, 00:25:28 he keeps that dollar in circulation. Yep. And it has helped the economies throughout Iowa greatly, and I think renewable fuels are much more positive. 00:25:36 Nothing is perfect, but it's very much been a positive thing for the Midwest, renewable fuels, in my opinion. 00:25:43 Ryan, last thought? Yeah, I mean, Kelly's 100% right. It's a symbiotic relationship. It's only going to work if there's a symbiosis achieved here 00:25:52 between growers, channel partners, ourselves, and the plants. As Kelly said, the end goal of this should be, in my view as 00:26:02 a taxpayer, I think we're all taxpayers here, is I'm paying a tax to help growers and ethanol and 00:26:10 biofuels get better. I help pay some of that so the farmer can introduce regenerative practices so he can increase the organic matter, be able to 00:26:22 reduce different chemicals and synthetic fertilizers in the future if possible, and being able to make his farm 00:26:30 more efficient, more profitable, and more sustainable from a standpoint of lasting and long-term. To do this effectively and do this at scale, 00:26:40 I think what we really have to focus on is how do we ensure that this tax credit gets 00:26:47 approved and goes through and as we go into... Right now, it goes to 2029. Mm-hmm. 00:26:53 We want to extend that beyond 2029. Mm-hmm. We can only do that if we prove out to the government that we are doing it in a low to no-fraud way. That is key to this 00:27:03 being successful. And by doing this, by this partnership that we have, that we've created in Arva to be able to 00:27:11 connect all the points from A to Z, we believe that we can scale this. We believe that we can continue this beyond just the 00:27:19 45Z into other value-added things that are going to be brought in by regenerative agriculture. 00:27:26 I'm excited for it. I'm excited for the producers. If you learned something from this, please pass it along so somebody else can learn from it. I'm going to give you my thoughts. 00:27:33 And remember, I don't produce corn, but I know a little bit about it. You might say, "Ah, this is more hassle than it's worth." It's not. 00:27:40 And we just talked about, on average, 30 to 40 bucks to what? To go and check off some, to do an online application and get some 00:27:47 credit. It doesn't cost you anything. And I'm going to give you the other incentive that maybe I think will move the needle on farmers, and Kelly's going to laugh when I say this. 00:27:54 Your neighbor is doing it. Your neighbor is doing it, and so where do you think this goes five years down the road? You're going to be complaining that somebody made more 00:28:03 money than you? Well, that's where we are. Am I right, Kelly? Oh, you're 100% right. And there's also a lot of talk 00:28:11 about subsidies in ag, and farmers don't want them. There's a lot of talk about the federal crop insurance, and farmers don't want that and the revenue derived from that. 00:28:19 And I wish there were no subsidies in ag. I wish I didn't have to take the federal crop insurance. But at the end of the day, my neighbor is, and I'm not going to put myself at a 00:28:28 competitive disadvantage. And this is another example of that. Do you go to the place in the fall with the best basis, 00:28:37 or do you go with the worst basis? Now, there's probably times you're going to make a logistical decision. But by and large, you want to 00:28:43 generate the most revenue from your acre that you can. How can you afford not to do this? This is 100% positive. There's not a negative here. 00:28:52 I know that's bad- And I'll throw it out there- There's not a negative here ... also, obviously, if you don't go and get signed up with 00:28:58 XtremeAg and Residual Roots, what the hell is it called again? Regenerative Roots. 00:29:04 Regenerative. With Regenerative Roots, XtremeAg, and Arva, do it somewhere for your own benefit. 00:29:09 Yeah. I mean, obviously XtremeAg was begun five years ago, six years ago, to help you remain solvent. And in these 00:29:17 environments right now with commodity prices, do this somewhere. His name is Ryan Percy. If you want to find out more about the company, go to Arva. 00:29:23 It's Arva, A-R-V-A, .com, arva.com. He told you. You can do a Google search on how to get your carbon intensity. You know how to reach Kelly Garrett if you're an XtremeAg member. 00:29:32 And if you aren't, you should be. It's only $750 a year. You get direct access to guys like Kelly Garrett or his friends over at Calibrated 00:29:39 Agronomy who can help you with things like this. If you say, "Hey, I heard it, but I need you to just walk me through it," boom, you can do that for being a member 00:29:47 of XtremeAg. Also, hundreds and hundreds of videos on our website, xtremeag.farm, and on YouTube. Hit subscribe on our YouTube channel. 00:29:54 We need to continue to build that. And thank you for being here. If you have any questions, you know how to reach out. Go get this done. 00:29:59 This can make you money. Thank you for tuning in. Till next time, Kelly Garrett, Ryan Percy, Damian Mason, XtremeAg's Cutting the Curve. 00:30:07 That's a wrap for this episode of Cutting the Curve. Make sure to check out xtremeag.farm for more great content to help 00:30:14.328 --> 00:30:17.607